8472 Planet Killer vs Death Star

[The Albino Raven]

As a n00b, i cannot speak of sovereign's wussiness in the past, but i will say that his remarks are simply exaggerated and underdeveloped. In terms of efficency, one DS ib obviously more effective than a squadron of bio-ships, as has been stated in many of the previous posts. In fact, the ONLY way Species 8472 could be construed as more efficent, is as an entire species.

Attrition is the only place where 8472 has a slight advantage. The sheer volume of bio-ships it posseses, as can be seen when the crew of Voyager sees liquid space, obviously give it a numbers advantage over the lone DS.

That said, it would take so rediculously many of those Bio-Ships to do the job as effeciently as a single DS, that 8472 is nowhere near as efficent in terms of planet killing as the DS. So many bio-ships would be lost in planetary explosions, defense from the planet's fleet, etc. that it simply wouldnt be practical.

[Ender]

Address my points

[Sovereign]

So many bio-ships would be lost in planetary explosions, defense from the planet's fleet, etc. that it simply wouldnt be practical.

Not necessarily. The 9 bioships in Scorpion escaped the planet’s destruction, they just went back to Fluidic Space. Also, everyone assumes that Laser weapons have the ability to damage or destroy bioships, but from what is going on now, the SW galaxy is getting its ass beat by a Race of Organic people called the Yuuzhan Vong. Why would S8472 be any different? And one more thing, S8472 ships are resistant to Energy weapons and there own weapons of are raw power (which is why the Borg could not adapt efficiently). They should have a defense against their own types of weapons.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Lying asshole. The Yuzhaan Vong use black holes to absorb the shots. And they're still destroyed. And


TUVOK: This damage was caused by a Borg disruptor beam. The wall appears to be regenerating itself.


Obviously, the Borg can damage 8472.

Furthermore, "defense" doesn't mean alot. You think a Los Angelas or Sea Wolf could take even a single torpedo?

[Sovereign]

Lying asshole. The Yuzhaan Vong use black holes to absorb the shots. And they're still destroyed.

and the Quantum Singularity opened by S8472 does not qualify as a "Hole" in space? not to mention that the bioship fought 15 Cubes, it would have some sort of damage. It was still alive and regenerating.

[Anarchist Bunny]

and the Quantum Singularity opened by S8472 does not qualify as a "Hole" in space?

I'm just going to ignore a large portion of the stupidity of that and ask, if so, what does it matter?

not to mention that the bioship fought 15 Cubes, it would have some sort of damage. It was still alive and regenerating.

Do I have to pull the ISD vs X # of borg cubes thing up again?

[Sovereign]

Do I have to pull the ISD vs X # of borg cubes thing up again?

That one shot to vaporise a 3000m Cube in one shot is BS.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Do I have to pull the ISD vs X # of borg cubes thing up again?

That one shot to vaporise a 3000m Cube in one shot is BS.

Who said anything about vaporization, lets see 200 gigaton tls, 70 gigaton shielding high end figure to much much lower with MoO's Nemesis calcs, so at best one shot from a ISD can do enough damage to take down two Cube's shielding, and bring a thirds down to 15.5%(ofcourse such a shot is impossible) and your saying a one hit kill is bullshit?

[Anarchist Bunny]

Awwwwww, he seems to be gone from the boards, well, lets see if I can keep him that way.

Lets play the calculations game again! New shield figures from Bean 246 terraton shielding, or 246000000 megatons. Lets give the borg the again generous 256 megaton torps at one per second, and 1000 of em per wave, all fire until all are destroyed, no obstructions in firing. ISD can only fire MTLs, 200 gigatons, 1 every 2 seconds x 50 emplacements. It would take 40 seconds for the ISD to destroy all the cubes, in that time the cubes will do 10,240,000 megatons of damage, or 4.16% to the ISD's shields. So it would take over 25 waves of 1000 cubes to destroy a ISD(assuming once shields are gone, so is the ISD) and the ISD will have taken out over 24,000 cubes. The bio ships will be fried by an ISD or orbital defense platform, or a frigate, while the DS wouldn't even notice them.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Lying asshole. The Yuzhaan Vong use black holes to absorb the shots. And they're still destroyed.

and the Quantum Singularity opened by S8472 does not qualify as a "Hole" in space?

Were the ships instantly sucked back up into this singularity? Furthermore, a black hole is not a hole in space dumbass.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Do I have to pull the ISD vs X # of borg cubes thing up again?

That one shot to vaporise a 3000m Cube in one shot is BS.

You're really smart aren't you? Here's a hint, you don't have to vaporize a target to destroy it.

[Stravo]

So many bio-ships would be lost in planetary explosions, defense from the planet's fleet, etc. that it simply wouldnt be practical.

Not necessarily. The 9 bioships in Scorpion escaped the planet’s destruction, they just went back to Fluidic Space. Also, everyone assumes that Laser weapons have the ability to damage or destroy bioships, but from what is going on now, the SW galaxy is getting its ass beat by a Race of Organic people called the Yuuzhan Vong. Why would S8472 be any different? And one more thing, S8472 ships are resistant to Energy weapons and there own weapons of are raw power (which is why the Borg could not adapt efficiently). They should have a defense against their own types of weapons.

You know what's REALLY annoying is that this Trektard is using a warsie argument and turning it on its head. For YEARS warsies have been saying that the Borg cannot simply adapt to the SW weapons because of sheer power and the legion of the Trektards replied BS. NOW we have one of their number saying that the reasoin the Borg could not adapt to S8471's weapons is because of raw firepower. Fuuny that how the argument is OK on their end but not on the warsies.

Quiet frankly from reading his arguments it boils down to this:

Each warsie piling on with figures, math and calculations, many of them LOW end numbers in Trek's favor. We could all point to FC on the MASSIVE surface damage done by Borg fire and say...hmmm....not even kiloton level, in fact, I think there are sticks of dynamite that can cause more damage than Borg disruptors. But I digress.

His reponse: That's BS. Thats nto right. No way. NO NUMBERS, CALCULATIONS, NOT EVEN A SINGLE SOLITRAY SHRED of evidence to back up this claim. So essentially, its not right becuase Sovereign says so.

What an ass.

[Sovereign]

Awwwwww, he seems to be gone from the boards, well, lets see if I can keep him that way.

Lets play the calculations game again! New shield figures from Bean 246 terraton shielding, or 246000000 megatons. Lets give the borg the again generous 256 megaton torps at one per second, and 1000 of em per wave, all fire until all are destroyed, no obstructions in firing. ISD can only fire MTLs, 200 gigatons, 1 every 2 seconds x 50 emplacements. It would take 40 seconds for the ISD to destroy all the cubes, in that time the cubes will do 10,240,000 megatons of damage, or 4.16% to the ISD's shields. So it would take over 25 waves of 1000 cubes to destroy a ISD(assuming once shields are gone, so is the ISD) and the ISD will have taken out over 24,000 cubes. The bio ships will be fried by an ISD or orbital defense platform, or a frigate, while the DS wouldn't even notice them.

You fail to remember that the Borg have a weapon that drains shields of there power. If a hundred cubes could fire that weapon say of your 1000 per wave each. Can a Star Destroyer regenerate Shields and power up its 200 gigaton weapons all at once?

[SirNitram]

Awwwwww, he seems to be gone from the boards, well, lets see if I can keep him that way.

Lets play the calculations game again! New shield figures from Bean 246 terraton shielding, or 246000000 megatons. Lets give the borg the again generous 256 megaton torps at one per second, and 1000 of em per wave, all fire until all are destroyed, no obstructions in firing. ISD can only fire MTLs, 200 gigatons, 1 every 2 seconds x 50 emplacements. It would take 40 seconds for the ISD to destroy all the cubes, in that time the cubes will do 10,240,000 megatons of damage, or 4.16% to the ISD's shields. So it would take over 25 waves of 1000 cubes to destroy a ISD(assuming once shields are gone, so is the ISD) and the ISD will have taken out over 24,000 cubes. The bio ships will be fried by an ISD or orbital defense platform, or a frigate, while the DS wouldn't even notice them.

You fail to remember that the Borg have a weapon that drains shields of there power. If a hundred cubes could fire that weapon say of your 1000 per wave each. Can a Star Destroyer regenerate Shields and power up its 200 gigaton weapons all at once?

They do this in battle all the time. Not every sci-fi is so stupid it doesn't recharge shields except for outside of battle.

[Alyeska]

Awwwwww, he seems to be gone from the boards, well, lets see if I can keep him that way.

Lets play the calculations game again! New shield figures from Bean 246 terraton shielding, or 246000000 megatons. Lets give the borg the again generous 256 megaton torps at one per second, and 1000 of em per wave, all fire until all are destroyed, no obstructions in firing. ISD can only fire MTLs, 200 gigatons, 1 every 2 seconds x 50 emplacements. It would take 40 seconds for the ISD to destroy all the cubes, in that time the cubes will do 10,240,000 megatons of damage, or 4.16% to the ISD's shields. So it would take over 25 waves of 1000 cubes to destroy a ISD(assuming once shields are gone, so is the ISD) and the ISD will have taken out over 24,000 cubes. The bio ships will be fried by an ISD or orbital defense platform, or a frigate, while the DS wouldn't even notice them.

You fail to remember that the Borg have a weapon that drains shields of there power. If a hundred cubes could fire that weapon say of your 1000 per wave each. Can a Star Destroyer regenerate Shields and power up its 200 gigaton weapons all at once?

I can build a device that will quickly and easily drain the power from a car battery. If I were to try and hook the same thing up to a local power station I would kill myself. Just because something can drain the power one one level of shielding does not mean it can drain the power on shielding that is orders of magnitudes more powerful.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Awwwwww, he seems to be gone from the boards, well, lets see if I can keep him that way.

Lets play the calculations game again! New shield figures from Bean 246 terraton shielding, or 246000000 megatons. Lets give the borg the again generous 256 megaton torps at one per second, and 1000 of em per wave, all fire until all are destroyed, no obstructions in firing. ISD can only fire MTLs, 200 gigatons, 1 every 2 seconds x 50 emplacements. It would take 40 seconds for the ISD to destroy all the cubes, in that time the cubes will do 10,240,000 megatons of damage, or 4.16% to the ISD's shields. So it would take over 25 waves of 1000 cubes to destroy a ISD(assuming once shields are gone, so is the ISD) and the ISD will have taken out over 24,000 cubes. The bio ships will be fried by an ISD or orbital defense platform, or a frigate, while the DS wouldn't even notice them.

You fail to remember that the Borg have a weapon that drains shields of there power. If a hundred cubes could fire that weapon say of your 1000 per wave each. Can a Star Destroyer regenerate Shields and power up its 200 gigaton weapons all at once?

I can build a device that will quickly and easily drain the power from a car battery. If I were to try and hook the same thing up to a local power station I would kill myself. Just because something can drain the power one one level of shielding does not mean it can drain the power on shielding that is orders of magnitudes more powerful.

*laughs* Great analogy.

[Ghost Rider]

You fail to remember that the Borg have a weapon that drains shields of there power. If a hundred cubes could fire that weapon say of your 1000 per wave each. Can a Star Destroyer regenerate Shields and power up its 200 gigaton weapons all at once?

Yes...watch the movies sometimes, dumbass.

Now will you clean up your crap?

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8920
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12237
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12143
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8862
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7663
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=6131
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=4769

[Ender]

Not necessarily. The 9 bioships in Scorpion escaped the planet’s destruction, they just went back to Fluidic Space. Also, everyone assumes that Laser weapons have the ability to damage or destroy bioships, but from what is going on now, the SW galaxy is getting its ass beat by a Race of Organic people called the Yuuzhan Vong. Why would S8472 be any different?

Probably because the fact that
1) the YV are currently getting the shit beat out of them
2) the YV use artificial black holes to absorb the shots
3) the vong have demonstrated weapons, hulls, and defenses stronger then 8472 has
4) the YV were winning through sheer weight of numbers at each engagement, and even then it wasn't always enough IE Battle of Black Bantha

And one more thing, S8472 ships are resistant to Energy weapons and there own weapons of are raw power (which is why the Borg could not adapt efficiently).

Liar. The 8472 is clearly a chain reaction weapon, not a raw power weapon. It may have a large amount of power behind it, but it does most of it's damage through chain reaction.

They should have a defense against their own types of weapons.

There is a difference in strength here, do you not get that?

and the Quantum Singularity opened by S8472 does not qualify as a "Hole" in space?

Not even close to the same. I didn't see it exerting huge gravitic effects, did you?

not to mention that the bioship fought 15 Cubes, it would have some sort of damage. It was still alive and regenerating.

Which means that a Star Destroyer, hell a frigging Carrack will eat one alive.

You fail to remember that the Borg have a weapon that drains shields of there power.

No, we remember, it just isn't relevent to anything above a systems patrol craft.

If a hundred cubes could fire that weapon say of your 1000 per wave each. Can a Star Destroyer regenerate Shields and power up its 200 gigaton weapons all at once?

With ease. You really have no clue how powerful these ships are, do you?

I fully expect you to ignore all this, just like you did my last post.

[Anarchist Bunny]

I fully expect you to ignore all this, just like you did my last post.

No no no, he'll just snip something completely unimportant(like I think he ment a alone bioship uses raw energy for it's weaponry, and not the planet killing weapon) and ignore the rest cause he can't prove it wrong.

[Sovereign]

If similar fire rates occured in the Endor battle (note that we are disregarding the heavy turbolasers which would increase the estimate by an order of magnitude), this means that the energy capacity of a Star Destroyer's shields is between 1.4E19 and 9E20 joules, so 1E20 joules (24,000 megatons) is a reasonable estimate.

Well it seems that a Star Destroyers shields are about, as quoted, equal to 24,000 megatons.

Lets play the calculations game again! New shield figures from Bean 246 terraton shielding, or 246000000 megatons.

New shield figures? Where do you get off changing the numbers? 24,000 megatons is that actual numbers for shields not 246,000,000 megatons.

256 megaton torps at one per second, and 1000 of em per wave, all fire until all are destroyed, no obstructions in firing.

so 256 megatons x 1000 fired = 256,000 megatons of weapons impacts x 1000 cubes = 256,000,000 megatons of weapons impacts.

[Anarchist Bunny]

If similar fire rates occured in the Endor battle (note that we are disregarding the heavy turbolasers which would increase the estimate by an order of magnitude), this means that the energy capacity of a Star Destroyer's shields is between 1.4E19 and 9E20 joules, so 1E20 joules (24,000 megatons) is a reasonable estimate.

Well it seems that a Star Destroyers shields are about, as quoted, equal to 24,000 megatons.

Wow, what wonderful noncannon information. Hell that's not even properly researched figures, OFFICIAL sources tell that a MEDIUM turbolaser is 200 GIGATONS, so this figures-outta-your-ass are no where even close to being considered anything but pure, concentrated bullshit.

New shield figures? Where do you get off changing the numbers? 24,000 megatons is that actual numbers for shields not 246,000,000 megatons.

New information or realization, basicly it deals with an ISD fight in Isaard's revenge, and uses the ammount of fire x the power of the fire to get the shield values. Also mind you this is using offical information and not some bullshit someone made up and posted on a website.

so 256 megatons x 1000 fired = 256,000 megatons of weapons impacts x 1000 cubes = 256,000,000 megatons of weapons impacts.

Well, lets start with the general theme of this post, your 24,000 megaton shielding figure is completely uncannon, unoffical, and horribly inaccurate.

Second, what sheer idiocy gave the second 1000 figure, its 256 megatons a second from 1000 cubes, not 1000 256 megaton torps a second from 1000 cubes.

[Sovereign]

51,200,000 megatons if you divide by 50 to compensate for the fact that not 100% of the explosive force is not impacted. But it is still 51,200,000 megatons vs 24,000.

[Cpt_Frank]

Well it seems that a Star Destroyers shields are about, as quoted, equal to 24,000 megatons.

New shield figures? Where do you get off changing the numbers? 24,000 megatons is that actual numbers for shields not 246,000,000 megatons.

24000 megatons is the lower limit for shields using only the movies as sources. Beans calcs which anarchistbunny was refering to also use EU material.

[Ender]

If similar fire rates occured in the Endor battle (note that we are disregarding the heavy turbolasers which would increase the estimate by an order of magnitude), this means that the energy capacity of a Star Destroyer's shields is between 1.4E19 and 9E20 joules, so 1E20 joules (24,000 megatons) is a reasonable estimate.

Well it seems that a Star Destroyers shields are about, as quoted, equal to 24,000 megatons.

Wow, way to quote incorrectly (it's SD.NET, not ST), and to quote from an outdated page currently under revision.

That page was speculation, and based off of weaker numbers. HENCE WHY IT IS UNDER REVISION! We now have concrete figures. If an ISD is 10 times an Acclamator, and they direct 25% of their power into their shields, as is stated in the Imperial Sourcebook, their shileds would be 1.75E24 watts.

New shield figures? Where do you get off changing the numbers? 24,000 megatons is that actual numbers for shields not 246,000,000 megatons.

Liar. See above.

so 256 megatons x 1000 fired = 256,000 megatons of weapons impacts x 1000 cubes = 256,000,000 megatons of weapons impacts.

What a cheat. You multiply by 1000 twice to try and prove yourself correct. The * 1000 is for all the cubes, since we have NEVER seen them fire more then one weapon at a time. And even if we go by your attempt at lying with numbers there, it still isn't enough to get past the shields.

Respond to my posts.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Also would you mind posting a link for the Endor quote, ST.net doesn't really give any insight to were that came from.