Practice martial arts or combat? Favorite?

[CRUCIBLE]

Hey Rob, nice to hear a wise man speaking.

I am in the Military and we have access to 3 types of vests. Shrapnel Vests, which will stop shrapnels (well, you guessed it). S-Vests are still light enough to wear comfortably and can stop knives too (field tested,hehe).
Light and Heavy Kevlar Vests are the other two, fabric is more dense and the plating (like Rob explained perfectly) extends over a broader Vital spot range.
Light Kev vests are the normal Police Vests, the Heavy ones are Military only (at least here in Germany). The Heavy ones can stop up to a 1MOA (not the correct term for burst pattern, but it explains) 7.62mm burst. Thats quiet impressive if you ask me.

On topic, i am still practising traditional Kung Fu (over 10 years now ). I got into some fights too (i am to stuborn to run away ), but hey, call me a psycho but that is the best training you can have.

[weemadando]

Aikido and good ole fashioned brawling.

Though I was caught out on Friday. Some fucker jumped out from some bushes, thwacked me in the guts with a tree branch then ran off when I didn't drop. If he'd hit me about 2 inches higher I would have caught it in the solar plexus and definately gone down. And the worst part - I didn't get a look at them so I can't beat the shit out of them if I see them again.

[Rob Wilson]

Hey Rob, nice to hear a wise man speaking.

I am in the Military and we have access to 3 types of vests. Shrapnel Vests, which will stop shrapnels (well, you guessed it). S-Vests are still light enough to wear comfortably and can stop knives too (field tested,hehe).
Light and Heavy Kevlar Vests are the other two, fabric is more dense and the plating (like Rob explained perfectly) extends over a broader Vital spot range.
Light Kev vests are the normal Police Vests, the Heavy ones are Military only (at least here in Germany). The Heavy ones can stop up to a 1MOA (not the correct term for burst pattern, but it explains) 7.62mm burst. Thats quiet impressive if you ask me.

I just get sick and tired of hearing people blabbing on about how a knife will defeat a bullet-proof vest. they find out that a knife will go through a single layer of Kevlar with a bit of effort point first and that's it, they expand that to conclude that a knife will defeat a proper vest. It's the sort of Urban Myth that needs stamping out before it gets too prevalent.

The British Army INIBA in it's base form will stop knife attacks to any part of it including the neck and the sides, and can stop a pistol round from 30m away. With the Low velocity inserts, it'll stop a pistol at point-blank range and 5.56mm rounds at 200m. With the meduim Velocity inserts, it'll stop a 5.56mm round at 50m and a 7.62mm burst at 200m. The High Velocity insert will stop a 7.62mm round at 50m - though you'll be flat on your back trying hard to get your breathe back and a .50 round at 200m (but with bruised ribs). Like most Bullet-proof vests it's also flame retardant.

[Keevan_Colton]

Hey Rob, nice to hear a wise man speaking.

I am in the Military and we have access to 3 types of vests. Shrapnel Vests, which will stop shrapnels (well, you guessed it). S-Vests are still light enough to wear comfortably and can stop knives too (field tested,hehe).
Light and Heavy Kevlar Vests are the other two, fabric is more dense and the plating (like Rob explained perfectly) extends over a broader Vital spot range.
Light Kev vests are the normal Police Vests, the Heavy ones are Military only (at least here in Germany). The Heavy ones can stop up to a 1MOA (not the correct term for burst pattern, but it explains) 7.62mm burst. Thats quiet impressive if you ask me.

I just get sick and tired of hearing people blabbing on about how a knife will defeat a bullet-proof vest. they find out that a knife will go through a single layer of Kevlar with a bit of effort point first and that's it, they expand that to conclude that a knife will defeat a proper vest. It's the sort of Urban Myth that needs stamping out before it gets too prevalent.

The British Army INIBA in it's base form will stop knife attacks to any part of it including the neck and the sides, and can stop a pistol round from 30m away. With the Low velocity inserts, it'll stop a pistol at point-blank range and 5.56mm rounds at 200m. With the meduim Velocity inserts, it'll stop a 5.56mm round at 50m and a 7.62mm burst at 200m. The High Velocity insert will stop a 7.62mm round at 50m - though you'll be flat on your back trying hard to get your breathe back and a .50 round at 200m (but with bruised ribs). Like most Bullet-proof vests it's also flame retardant.

You'll note that it was a needle tipped weapon that I mentioned, and since it was police level vest that were being talked about, that's what I was refering to....I know full well that there's no hope of punching through a decent vest with trauma/rifle plates....that's where the major arteries outside the torso come into play after all, if you're close enough to use a knife hitting the centre of the body isnt really your best bet anyway

[CRUCIBLE]

You will have problems to stab even a Dagger through a 20+layer Kev Vest (20+ is minimum for every vest i saw ).
Anyway, who in his right mind goes for the torso? I usuall go for the throat or neck (In practice sessions, stay calm ).
You want him dead as quick as possible, not bleeding around crying for mom .

[Rob Wilson]

You'll note that it was a needle tipped weapon that I mentioned, and since it was police level vest that were being talked about, that's what I was refering to....I know full well that there's no hope of punching through a decent vest with trauma/rifle plates....that's where the major arteries outside the torso come into play after all, if you're close enough to use a knife hitting the centre of the body isnt really your best bet anyway

Well it won't go through a Met vest either as they are all trauma shielding over it's entire area (it being a side fastening front and back piece), and a knife guard neck piece. There is no Bullet-proof vest in service you can put a knife through, unless somewhere in the deepest darkest 3rd world arena, they are still using a 70's issue 1st gen set-up. The only reason the Met and other UK police forces have a seperate knife-proof vest is because it's lighter, not having to defend against bullets, so they can wear it on patrol without getting as tired (they are more likely to face knives than guns after all).
I don't care if you use a rapier and a run up, you not getting through the vest.

Of course yu can ignore the vest and go for the limbs, but that's because you can't defeat the vest in the first place, that being the point of my first post

[Next of Kin]

Anyway, who in his right mind goes for the torso?

Those who don't want to end up in jail for using more force than necessary in defending themselves.

[Rob Wilson]

Anyway, who in his right mind goes for the torso?

Those who don't want to end up in jail for using more force than necessary in defending themselves.

With a knife against a Police Officer? I think you're going to jail anyway.

[Saurencaerthai]

I don't take any right now, but there are a few I'd like to take:
Philipino martial arts (dealing with knife fighting)
Muay Thai

[CRUCIBLE]

Anyway, who in his right mind goes for the torso?

Those who don't want to end up in jail for using more force than necessary in defending themselves.

I still need to see a bugger who attacks me with a Vest put on .

Listen, i am in the Military, every 1st world army hands out vests to their soldiers, so we need to train how to get rid of sentries as loudless as possible.
Its just for special situations, afterall who would bring a knife to a gunfight.

Anyway, i dont know how the law sees this where you live. Here in Germany, we may defend against an attacker one step higher without getting problems with the law.
Barehanded, weapon (knife, baton,..), Firearms. These are the 3 steps. So if someone attacks me barehanded, i could utilize a Knife. Problem is, i would have to explain why the hell i had that knife anyway.

Btw, hitting the Torso with a knife can be as lethal as slicing the throat in the first place. So IF you counter(defend) with a knife and you are aiming at the torso, your intention would be to kill, not to disable.

Just go for a nice T-Baton if you want a weapon for self defense only. Higher range, not as illegal as a knife and its hard to kill someone by accident with it, as it is a blunt weapon.

[Next of Kin]

Listen, i am in the Military, every 1st world army hands out vests to their soldiers, so we need to train how to get rid of sentries as loudless as possible.
Its just for special situations, afterall who would bring a knife to a gunfight.

I didn't know that you were part of the military. I simply thought that you were training for street self defence. My bad.

Anyway, i dont know how the law sees this where you live. Here in Germany, we may defend against an attacker one step higher without getting problems with the law.

If I'm wrong then someone please correct me but in Ontatio, Canada you can't use any more force than necessary to subdue an attacker. A vicious chop to the throat would be very effective and possibly lethal too.

[aerius]

Anyway, i dont know how the law sees this where you live. Here in Germany, we may defend against an attacker one step higher without getting problems with the law.

If I'm wrong then someone please correct me but in Ontatio, Canada you can't use any more force than necessary to subdue an attacker. A vicious chop to the throat would be very effective and possibly lethal too.

Absolutely correct, you can't use weapons against an unarmed person, and firearms carry is illegal unless you're law enforcement so you can't shoot anyone. Even hitting a guy in the throat or or causing "excessive" damage will get you in trouble. In a 3 on 2 fight with me & my GF's sister on one side, we got arrested & charged for excessive force among other things since I broke a guy's knee and we fucked up the other 2 guys pretty bad. I should note that I made the first hit, but I did not feel like taking chances that day.

Of course the laws are somewhat flexible, for instance, if a small woman is being threatened by a 250 pound guy, she could stab him to death and likely have all charges dropped, if you're outnumbered you can generally use a weapon and get away with it, generally, but not always. In a "fair" fight if there ever was such a thing, you can neither escalate nor use any more force than absolutely neccessary to escape.

[Next of Kin]

In a 3 on 2 fight with me & my GF's sister on one side, we got arrested & charged for excessive force among other things since I broke a guy's knee and we fucked up the other 2 guys pretty bad. I should note that I made the first hit, but I did not feel like taking chances that day.

Aerius, you're one mean fightin' machine! I am impressed! Did the charges go any further other than your arrest?

[aerius]

Aerius, you're one mean fightin' machine! I am impressed! Did the charges go any further other than your arrest?

No, just surprise and mindset, I'm not that good of a fighter at all since even my GF can usually beat me unless I use my "dirty" tricks, and I have like 10 years more experience in martial arts and selfdefense than she does. In this case both myself and my GF's sister were arrested, charged, and spent some time in a police holding cell at the local station. We were quickly released and the case went to court a few months later where all the charges (excessive force, various assault charges) against us were thrown out.

I really wish I could train in martial arts for the fun of it and not have selfdefense come into it anywhere. But as long as I look like a dork and have a cute chick with me I might as well have a bullseye on my back and a sign that says "kick my ass". Pisses me off, and I know that one of these days I'm not going to be on the "winning" side, and so I train and just try to be as aware of my surroundings as possible.

[Rob Wilson]

If I'm wrong then someone please correct me but in Ontatio, Canada you can't use any more force than necessary to subdue an attacker. A vicious chop to the throat would be very effective and possibly lethal too.

Absolutely correct, you can't use weapons against an unarmed person, and firearms carry is illegal unless you're law enforcement so you can't shoot anyone. Even hitting a guy in the throat or or causing "excessive" damage will get you in trouble. In a 3 on 2 fight with me & my GF's sister on one side, we got arrested & charged for excessive force among other things since I broke a guy's knee and we fucked up the other 2 guys pretty bad. I should note that I made the first hit, but I did not feel like taking chances that day.

Well it's not so bad over here, if you're outnubered then there's a good chance Self-defence will clear you of any excessive force charges (unless you start the fight). As long as you don't kill them, or hit them after they are out of the fight, you're fine. If they have a knife, or other weapon, then you can get away with pretty much anything, as long as your sensible. It helps that most of Urban UK is covered with CCTV, so you can have footage to prove your points as to who started it and with what. In the UK, you'd have been interviewed, but that's about it. I've hospitalised people in fights and because they outnubered me (or if not refused to press charges) I got nothing more than a caution and a disapproving look from the senior police officer. Of course if I'd started things and been caught, it would be different. But in self-defence you're normally fine - just don't go ripping arm or stuff off them

[Dooey Jo]

I'm still training Ninjutsu. Gotta have that black belt

[Keevan_Colton]

Well it's not so bad over here, if you're outnubered then there's a good chance Self-defence will clear you of any excessive force charges (unless you start the fight). As long as you don't kill them, or hit them after they are out of the fight, you're fine. If they have a knife, or other weapon, then you can get away with pretty much anything, as long as your sensible. It helps that most of Urban UK is covered with CCTV, so you can have footage to prove your points as to who started it and with what. In the UK, you'd have been interviewed, but that's about it. I've hospitalised people in fights and because they outnubered me (or if not refused to press charges) I got nothing more than a caution and a disapproving look from the senior police officer. Of course if I'd started things and been caught, it would be different. But in self-defence you're normally fine - just don't go ripping arm or stuff off them

It's the great lines "reasonable force" and "fearing for my saftey" that can work wonders.

[Rob Wilson]

Well it's not so bad over here, if you're outnubered then there's a good chance Self-defence will clear you of any excessive force charges (unless you start the fight). As long as you don't kill them, or hit them after they are out of the fight, you're fine. If they have a knife, or other weapon, then you can get away with pretty much anything, as long as your sensible. It helps that most of Urban UK is covered with CCTV, so you can have footage to prove your points as to who started it and with what. In the UK, you'd have been interviewed, but that's about it. I've hospitalised people in fights and because they outnubered me (or if not refused to press charges) I got nothing more than a caution and a disapproving look from the senior police officer. Of course if I'd started things and been caught, it would be different. But in self-defence you're normally fine - just don't go ripping arm or stuff off them

It's the great lines "reasonable force" and "fearing for my saftey" that can work wonders.

That and the fact that I just don't look that physically imposing, so it's hard to se me as the aggressor, unless you actually see me as the Aggressor . 'Controlled Aggression', the wonders of Army training, mixed with a build like a collection of Pipe Cleaners.