To appreciate the good we must experience bad...?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-05-04 06:49pm

"remember: we must all experience both the good and the bad. For without the bad, we would have no frame of reference, and thus even luxury would seem like squallor, and brightest hues would appear drab. So when life collapses in around you, remember: The worse things get, the better things can possibly be."

I got this in an email someone sent me.

Personally, I don't really like that philosophy. Do we really need to have bad shit happen to us to be able to appreciate the good?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-05-04 06:55pm

This is pretty absurd. It doesn't take knowing what you don't like to know what you like. We judge things based on their intrinsic merits, not how they compare to getting stabbed in the gut with a sword, for example.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-04 06:59pm

I think that you can experience good without knowing bad. If you feel good, through biochemical reactions and what not, it feels good you don't need to compare that to something else to know that.

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-05-04 07:10pm

i disagree, i think you need only know what "normal" is (ie neither happy nor sad, good nor bad, just everyday kinda stuff) in order to appreciate the good.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-04 07:12pm

Uraniun235 wrote:"remember: we must all experience both the good and the bad. For without the bad, we would have no frame of reference, and thus even luxury would seem like squallor, and brightest hues would appear drab. So when life collapses in around you, remember: The worse things get, the better things can possibly be."

Every cloud has a silver lining, yadda yadda yadda. This is just one of those motivational things they use to make people feel better about themselves. Harmless enough if it works.

Personally, I don't really like that philosophy. Do we really need to have bad shit happen to us to be able to appreciate the good?

It helps. People appreciate life more when they've been nearly killed, they appreciate food more if they've been near death by starvation, they appreciate sex more if they've gone a year without it, etc. Given a range of experiences, your only frame of reference between "good" and "bad" is the limits of your own past. If the worst you've ever experienced is having your rich daddy deny your request for a Porsche instead of an Accord, you probably have little appreciation of just how good your life is.

Look at how many kids in affluent western nations commit suicide and become clinically depressed, even though (in many cases), they have everything going for them on paper. They have no idea how good they have it, and they can actually talk themselves into feeling miserable because of ridiculous non-problems like "nobody truly understands me".

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-05-04 07:12pm

While I agree that we can recognize what's good by itself and not by comparison, I'll tell you right now that the best steak of my life was last year, after a three weeks mountain climbing of the Marrocos Atlas.

The guides fed us on long not so fresh vegetables and eventually (when we got lucky) some scraps of tuna fish and semi-rotten eggs. And the worst thing is, they served so little food we actually craved for more of the shit.

I paid 1500$ for the trip and got home six kg lighter

And then came the steak, and I ate it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-04 07:13pm

Colonel Olrik wrote: And then came the stake, and I made love to it.

Actually, it's spelled "steak". A "stake" is a long, hard wooden stick, and the sentence above looks really bad.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-05-04 07:16pm

*grumbles and rewrites history, after hitting is head on the wall*

Worst spelling error in fucking history.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-04 07:20pm

NapoleonGH wrote:i disagree, i think you need only know what "normal" is (ie neither happy nor sad, good nor bad, just everyday kinda stuff) in order to appreciate the good.

I think it helps you appreciate it. But it isn't needed for you to tell that something is good.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-05-04 07:21pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:*grumbles and rewrites history, after hitting is head on the wall*

Worst spelling error in fucking history.

ROTFLMMFGDQQAO!!!

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-05-04 07:41pm

It helps you appreciate the good more than you already do, but it's not necessary.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-05-04 07:43pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:*grumbles and rewrites history, after hitting is head on the wall*

Worst spelling error in fucking history.

I don't think the spelling error was nearly as bad as the wording of the last part of the sentence (I made love to it). Of course, that's assuming that the quote in Mike's post was something you actually said.

At least Arminius isn't here, he'd have a field day with that error.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-05-04 07:46pm

and without injustice we´d never have a right.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-05-04 07:49pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote: At least Arminius isn't here, he'd have a field day with that error.

And I would have a field day mass editing his posts, thus masking my own mistake.

Never play games with an annoyed mod.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-04 08:38pm

I don't need to be in a car crash to know it's bad for me.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-04 08:41pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:*grumbles and rewrites history, after hitting is head on the wall*

Worst spelling error in fucking history.

I laughed for the rest of the thread

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-04 08:42pm

Actually, I have to say that if we lived in a world that had no real bad activities then it would cloud our minds a bit, people can think they have it bad in life until they really experience an horrific thing. I suppose like how some spoilt brats think they're parents are mean for not buying them a certain item only for them to then be under foster care and see how less well off parents can't buy them much anything at all.

It's all perspective in the end.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-04 10:12pm

In my experience, it's more than good/bad biochemical feelings...It's the actual reason for having it. I could take ecstasy* all I want and feel great, but I'd like it much much better if my good feeling was due to some grand accomplishment or just luck, like winning the lottery.

Something that happens more often than lottery-winning: I'm trying to sleep in, but I have to piss like you would not believe. After a few minutes of trying to ignore it, I go. It feels greea-a-a-a-at. I apprieciate(sp?) urinating more than the usual midday leaks.

*I never took ecstasy. It was a hypothetical situation. Thus, I did not mention an illegal activity. Good day, that is all.

Seriously, I never did.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-05-04 10:44pm

You can know good and you can know bad without experiencing either one, but its the gray area in between that is hard to figure out without those experiences.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-04 10:50pm

I see most bad experiences as learning experiences. If I never fucked up in my life, I wouldn't know what NOT to do what I did to fuck up. I occasionally buy a shitty album, but I don't regret it; I just swear my eternal hatred for Weezer and their damnable "Green" Album!

Without the Holocaust we wouldn't know what evil men are capable of dealing to their fellows.

Without the Internet we simply would not know just how many truly sick people there are.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2003-05-04 11:59pm

Makes me think of this thread.

Damn, that was a long time ago.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-05 12:22am

Darth Wong wrote:Look at how many kids in affluent western nations commit suicide and become clinically depressed, even though (in many cases), they have everything going for them on paper. They have no idea how good they have it, and they can actually talk themselves into feeling miserable because of ridiculous non-problems like "nobody truly understands me".

Isn't it so true.

I listen a girl all the time whine how she doesn't understand how people can't appreciate the "important" things like thinking about Sartre and existentialism. And talking about the "meaning of existance" and "why we're here" and "why we exist."

From this person, I get bitching because I say that science will provide the most truthful answers, as it at least answers to an authority of verifiable testing and empirical analysis. Being a naturalist makes me "shallow and superficial."

And when my girlfriend nods and smiles to her asking about my girlfriend's opinon on that Marxist, Sartre, and his whining, she tells me my girlfriend is generic and shallow because she "doesn't understand."

What a crock of psychobabble shit. Fuck High School philosophical wankers who think they're better than other people because of their lack of real-world perspective.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-05-05 12:32am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:What a crock of psychobabble shit. Fuck High School philosophical wankers who think they're better than other people because of their lack of real-world perspective.

Amen to that. They shouldn't teach that kind of philosophy to high schoolers. Especially not Sartre. Or Nietzsche. It reminds me of that Sopranos episode where the kid becomes a pseudo-atheist because he misunderstood Nietzsche's comment that "God is dead."

Which is understandable. Nietzsche had a tendency to be a bit vague.

Ok, so maybe we shouldn't pull that kind of thing entirely out of high schools, but we MUST get teachers in there that know what they're talking about. I mean, we can't have philosophy teachers in Catholic schools simply preaching that according to Nietzsche, God is dead, and therefore Nietzsche's literature isn't worth a nanosecond of attention. ::Sighs:: This all goes back to the whole "qualified teachers" debate... But let's not hijack the thread.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-05 12:37am

Queeb Salaron wrote:*snip*

Our IBO Diploma Programme's Theory of Knowledge teacher is a sophistric fool who happens to be a devout Catholic with a PhD.

He makes the kids watch moon conspiracy shit, makes them read Sartre, and no one is sure if he believes any of it--he plays head games and fucks with the kids and tells them how stupid they are and then is suprised when class morale among some of the smartest kids in the county is at shit levels and the entire class, save for one person, skips.

Poor girlfriend mine.

EDIT:

Queeb Salaron wrote:Especially not Sartre. Or Nietzsche.

No offense, but I think philosophy in general is sophistric bullshit that never gets anything done or produce any real meaningful conclusions. It elitest psychobabble. And Sartre was a Communist dipshit anyway.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-05 12:56am

Philosophy has its merits in application to your life. If I wasn't a Nihilist when I'm in a foul mood, I wouldn't have anything worth thinking about other than how women hate me.

"What's the point of living if you can't appreciate it?"
----Teen angst.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

To appreciate the good we must experience bad...?

To appreciate the good we must experience bad...?

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