rifles

[Edi]

And also just a glorified sub machine gun in combat.

It's range is far longer than any SMG, and it's bullets are much more powerful. Well over 55,000,000 copies made, they did something right

I wonder at the 'lack of accuracy' cliche whenever a discussion like this comes up. It is after all, more about the volume of fire you can produce than any shooting range accuracy characteristics. Case in point- the M1 carbine was popular in WW2 not because it was accurate, but because of the volume of fire you could produce with it. Same with the Stg 44, I'm sure German troops weren't gushing about how accurate it was, they were raving about how they had a 30-round mag and full auto fire in a rifle.

There's also the fact that people who can't get accurate shots at combat distances with an AK-47 are just incompetent. It's accurate enough if you know what you're doing, and if you want an AK-model anyway, better get some better quality carbon copy like the Finnish RK-62 instead of the Soviet made AK-47. Just as rugged with better quality and accuracy. The AKs are low maintenance too.

As for JediNeophyte, on the AK having an exposed gas chamber, whiskey, tango foxtrot, over? The gas chamber was never an issue, and my company must have fired some several thousand rounds during training, and I don't recall any problems cropping up. The AK is accurate up to 300 meters too, and perhaps even further if you put a sniper scope on it.

Edi

[Dirty Harry]

Wasn't the AK-74 withdrawn from service because of a lack of accuracy?, infact I think only the cut-down spetnaz model of it still see's regular use.

On topic however, the rifle I'd use would be either the M-16 or the M-4 carbine depending on situation. It's a shame about the lack of G36

[Vympel]

There's also the fact that people who can't get accurate shots at combat distances with an AK-47 are just incompetent. It's accurate enough if you know what you're doing, and if you want an AK-model anyway, better get some better quality carbon copy like the Finnish RK-62 instead of the Soviet made AK-47. Just as rugged with better quality and accuracy. The AKs are low maintenance too.

Soviet-made AKs are, from what I've seen discussed, pretty high on the quality of production metre, though I'm sure it depends on whether it's an original AK-47 or the AKM, which is of course a different animal production wise. The worst AKs you'll find anywhere I hear are the Chinese ones (excluding el-cheapo copies made in little one-man gun shops in some dinky little town in Pakistan or something). Valmet/ Sako guns are very high quality I'm sure; small country/ harsh conditions of northern Europe= stringent requirements.

As for JediNeophyte, on the AK having an exposed gas chamber, whiskey, tango foxtrot, over? The gas chamber was never an issue, and my company must have fired some several thousand rounds during training, and I don't recall any problems cropping up. The AK is accurate up to 300 meters too, and perhaps even further if you put a sniper scope on it.

Edi

It's listed as a 'disadvantage' in the US Army FM on the AK-47/AKM. Regardless, I doubt it's a serious complaint- methinks whoever was writing the FM was thinking up problems. Case in point: the FM for the AK-74 lists the brownish/orange plastic magazine as a disadvantage because it doesn't lend itself well to camoflage. Groping in the wilderness .... can't be too complimentary to evil communist guns

[Sea Skimmer]

It's listed as a 'disadvantage' in the US Army FM on the AK-47/AKM. Regardless, I doubt it's a serious complaint- methinks whoever was writing the FM was thinking up problems. Case in point: the FM for the AK-74 lists the brownish/orange plastic magazine as a disadvantage because it doesn't lend itself well to camoflage. Groping in the wilderness .... can't be too complimentary to evil communist guns

Actually, when you consider that basically every single other thing on a solider should be camo or at least a dull color, a spot of orange can be pretty important. anyway, it worth keeping mind to look for.

[Vympel]

Wasn't the AK-74 withdrawn from service because of a lack of accuracy?,

Where on Earth did you hear that? It's still in service. In 1991 it was replaced in production by the AK-74M, which is the improved model (black plastic furniture, full-size folding stock, other miscellaneous improvements), which is what you see nearly all Russian troops carrying. Though the AK-74M is improved, accuracy isn't one of the improvements.

infact I think only the cut-down spetnaz model of it still see's regular use.

If the AK-74 is out of regular use, what are the Russian troops using?









GP-30 40mm underbarrel grenade launchers on a few, if you look closely.

The AN-94 has been selected as it's replacement, but it hasn't been ordered in large numbers yet (1,000 pre-production rifles were sent to units for evaluation/familiarization etc), and I assume the weapon is in low-rate production, but the AK-74 has in now way been removed from the inventory just yet.

[Alyeska]

For standard issue assault rifle I have to go with the M16. With both the A2 and the A3 this is an incredibly versatile and effective weapon that will still be used some time into the future. For what your standard rifleman needs, the M16 is far superior then the M14 or the M4. Yes, the M4 compliments the M16 well and they make a good family of weapons to work together. However, if you can only have one, the M16 is the choice. Idealy you want more M16s then M4s, but you want enough M4s for their ease of use and close combat capabilities. In urban settings M4s would actualy be ideal while the M16 less so.

[Dirty Harry]

Vympel...
I sit corrected! , and those pics kick arse by the way

[Coyote]

Well, there's also the other, unsexy aspects to battle that tends to get overlooked in threads. In order to fire it, you must first carry it, and all the ammo, to the fight.

Long hours/days/endless miles of walking, up and down, through muck and mud, rain and snow, makes every ounce count. I'd rather walk 20 miles with my M-16 than 10 with a M21. I can carry a lot more ammo as well, since the rounds weigh less and take up less bulk.

Also bear in mind that most firefights won't take place in sniper-rifle ranges. 200-300 meters or less are more likely, whether in forest, jungle, or city. That means the criticism of the AK-47's long range accuracy is moot. Now, the Kalashnikov family has great low-impact maintenance needs, to add a point in its favor.

I'd say for seriosu battle needs, either an M-16/M4 or an AK-74 are the best choices. And since I am trained up and knowledgeable on the M-16, I'd default to that as my first choice. But this is vary much a personal choice situation, and anyone can make a good point in favor of their chosen weapon....

But bear in mind-- the best weapon is the one you're trained on, and a professional with a .22 is more dangerous than an idiot with a M-60 MG. And the .22 is a damn sight easier carry, especially over distances.

[Cpt_Frank]

I'll take the Avtomat for the reasons already mentioned.

[Knife]

But bear in mind-- the best weapon is the one you're trained on, and a professional with a .22 is more dangerous than an idiot with a M-60 MG. And the .22 is a damn sight easier carry, especially over distances.

Bah, for a buttplate maybe. The carring handle of the 60 will fit right in your neck and just hang there comfortably, albeit you have to get that nook in your neck by carring it for a while but.....

[Starscream]

acurracy=good


grenade launcher=better

[Cpt_Frank]

acurracy=good


grenade launcher=better

grenade launcher = useless against man 250 meters away

[Hotfoot]

acurracy=good


grenade launcher=better

grenade launcher = useless against man 250 meters away

That depends entirely on the grenade launcher.

[Starscream]

Gotta be careful of the recoil on those things.

[Cpt_Frank]

acurracy=good


grenade launcher=better

grenade launcher = useless against man 250 meters away

Rifle mounted grenade launcher of course.

[Sea Skimmer]

grenade launcher = useless against man 250 meters away

Sure they are

[weemadando]

grenade launcher = useless against man 250 meters away

Sure they are

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/oicw_atd-s.jpg

Oh dear, the OICW - whatever shall I do?

I know - lets fight in jungle/swamp with moisture! My victory over the Imperialists is certain!


And for the record due to the lack of an FN FAL/SLR option I voted AK-74 for sheer goddamn reliability.

[Agent Fisher]

the reason for the lack of the g36 is i didn't know about it i went with the 4 i knew the most about though the m- 16,4 fire the green tip armor penetrating round it goes straight through unarmored targets and does not stop in the target but the m-14 round stops in the target taking it out if you're wondering where i learned this read Black Hawk Down one of the delta operators carried m-14 for its stoping powers

[weemadando]

the reason for the lack of the g36 is i didn't know about it i went with the 4 i knew the most about :oops: though the m- 16,4 fire the green tip armor penetrating round it goes straight through unarmored targets and does not stop in the target but the m-14 round stops in the target taking it out if you're wondering where i learned this read Black Hawk Down one of the delta operators carried m-14 for its stoping powers

Well, its 7.62 which is always good for knocking people over

The G-36 is nice, but as has been said, it isn't battle proven. You should have removed the M-4 from your poll and had, say, the FN-FAL, another tried and tested rifle.

[Wicked Pilot]

This one baby!

[weemadando]

http://www2.latech.edu/~tbw005/M16_with_M203.jpg


This one baby!

*shoots the fool with the unloaded weapon, chuckles, then begins picking off the rest of the m-16 fanboys with a good ole SLR.*

[Glocksman]

*shoots the fool with the unloaded weapon, chuckles, then begins picking off the rest of the m-16 fanboys with a good ole SLR.*

SLR?

Aussie version of the FN FAL?

[Cpt_Frank]

SLR?

Aussie version of the FN FAL?

Semi-auto FAL.

As for best semi-auto battle rifle: SVT-40.
Oh and just for the record, best bolt-action battle rifle: Mosin-Nagant 91/30.

[Vympel]

*shoots the fool with the unloaded weapon, chuckles, then begins picking off the rest of the m-16 fanboys with a good ole SLR.*

SLR?

Aussie version of the FN FAL?

Ahhh the SLR. I know how to strip/clean them- or ... I did. Thank you cadets.

[Cpt_Frank]

*shoots the fool with the unloaded weapon, chuckles, then begins picking off the rest of the m-16 fanboys with a good ole SLR.*

SLR?

Aussie version of the FN FAL?

Ahhh the SLR. I know how to strip/clean them- or ... I did. Thank you cadets.

You forgot how to do it?