Enterprise-BORG!

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-07 04:43pm

No it is the crashlanded sphere and there is quite a lot of it (enough for the team to figure out it was a sphere), there is even a transwarp coil left over.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-05-07 04:48pm

No, those were how I'd write it (if on commision) working around the basic premise, not how I think B&B&company of fools have done it.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-07 04:50pm

Ah its fine how it is, its not like anyone would notice the remains of a sphere that was 600 m across

.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-05-07 07:22pm

TheDarkling wrote:Ah its fine how it is, its not like anyone would notice the remains of a sphere that was 600 m across .

Nah, never

I wonder how they got that 600m figure, anyway?

Chuck Sonnenburg's analysis of the sphere's size pointed to no more than 410 or so meters (?). The filmmaker's size chart pegged it squarely at 470m in width.

600m seems a tad big to me. I think they were trying to come up with a "midground" figure of sorts, to even out the appearances of very small spheres (470m or much less--see the end of "Unimatrix Zero") with truly huge ones 1km or more in diameter (like the one that "ate" VGR in "Endgame").

I'll see the episode in about 40 minutes, so...more to come!

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2003-05-07 08:18pm

On now; what I'm trying to figure is where in the Arctic Circle this is supposed to be.....
In case Blockhead and Buttface forgot, the Arctic is an OCEAN. And if it's supposed to be in Canada or the Russian Steppes, how the flaming hell does it avoid detection for a century? The population density of both areas are low, but now bloody mars!

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-05-07 08:43pm

Hmm, phase pistol's got a higher output than I thought.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-05-07 08:49pm

What does this say about the yield of Quantum torpedoes when a full spread leaves so much wreckage and survivng crew? Hundreds of megatons - NOT.

What does this say about the accuracy of ST sensors when a chunk that big can just plummet to earth with nary a peep from the Enterprise's sensors?

I'm ashamed that none of the vs. debaters have picked up on this.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2003-05-07 08:51pm

Yeah, but for all that, the hole in that test plate was smaller than your fingernail and I couldn't tell if it was even through and though. Contrast that with real AP ammo for handguns or rifles, or the damage to walls by blaster fire.
Interesting how they changed the typical speech though..."you will be assimilated. resistance is futile...."
Hmm, seem to be missing something....like "We are the Borg."

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-07 08:54pm

Stravo wrote:What does this say about the yield of Quantum torpedoes when a full spread leaves so much wreckage and survivng crew? Hundreds of megatons - NOT.

What does this say about the accuracy of ST sensors when a chunk that big can just plummet to earth with nary a peep from the Enterprise's sensors?

I'm ashamed that none of the vs. debaters have picked up on this.

Long range sensors were down, then the ship got attacked by borg then the Vulcans showed up and the Ent-E had to hide, that can explain away the sensors not picking it up.

As for the torps, just add it the variable trek yield index.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-05-07 08:55pm

Burak Gazan wrote:Yeah, but for all that, the hole in that test plate was smaller than your fingernail and I couldn't tell if it was even through and though. Contrast that with real AP ammo for handguns or rifles, or the damage to walls by blaster fire.

That all really depends on what the test plate's made of though... and the Borg seemed to have quite a bit of trouble adapting to a higher power weapon than a lower one.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-07 08:55pm

I love how the E-D saw the Borg Cube and drone and said "OMG, it's them!"

Oh, wait.

Ooh, subspace messages take 200 years? WTF?!

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-07 08:57pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:I love how the E-D saw the Borg Cube and drone and said "OMG, it's them!"

Oh, wait.

Ooh, subspace messages take 200 years? WTF?!

Unboosted and from a much lower tech.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-05-07 09:48pm

Actualy, I thought the episode was not bad abd pretty good, considering. It did clear up some loose ends and could fit what Q was thinking in O Who.

Atavarius · Post by **Atavarius** » 2003-05-07 10:07pm

I thought it was a pretty good episode considering it was Enterprise, but one thing is bothering me. According to Voyager all Borg are controlled through a Vinculum, which is basically their CPU right? Now if thats true and the Borg CPU was on the transport ship shouldn't they have been able to adapt to Reed's pumped phasers (my bad phase pistols) first? The Borg who beamed onto Ent. were shrugging off PP blasts like nothing, while the ones on the transport were Ramboed.

hmmmm i suppose i am reaching here, but that was something that kinda puzzeled me.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2003-05-07 10:41pm

I caught the end of the episode today. Just something Ive been thinking of is that, could it not be possible that a collection of nano probes survived the reentry and then proceeded to slowly get into new hosts on earth? That would seem more plausible than having actual drones survive.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2003-05-07 10:44pm

It looks to me like the chronology of shields was:
borg on ent hit by low-power, adapt quickly, shields have more than enough power
borg on trans hit by hi-power, don't adapt, easily killed
borg on ent hit by hi-power, adapt, looks like shields had to find a different adaptation or rerout power somehow
borg on trans now have adapted, shields work fine.
check me on this, my visual memory is poor.
Where the borg were shouldn't have mattered, as they would have nothing to prevent communication of adaptation data. The issue is power draw, and some of the borg messing with the ent plasma conduits and whatnot might have been creating a method by which to draw shield power.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-07 10:49pm

Embracer Of Darkness wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Embracer Of Darkness wrote:Hmm, I don't know how tough Borg hulls are exactly, but maybe they could've survived re-entry.
IIRC those torpedoes smashed the sphere to shit, blasting it into billions of tiny fragments. I don't any pieces of debris would survive re-entry.

And even if it did, how would the Borg drones survive the impact with the ground?

[Trekkie] THEY HAVE SHIELDS! BORG DRONES HAVE SHIELDS THAT COULD STOP THAT KE! THE WARSIES ARE LYING! YOU'RE ALL LYING AND I LOVE MY FAKE VIBRATING VAGINA! LIES! DAMN LIES AND GEORGE LUCAS FILMS![/Trekkie]

Mutant Headcrab · Post by **Mutant Headcrab** » 2003-05-07 10:55pm

Alan Bolte wrote:It looks to me like the chronology of shields was:
borg on ent hit by low-power, adapt quickly, shields have more than enough power
borg on trans hit by hi-power, don't adapt, easily killed
borg on ent hit by hi-power, adapt, looks like shields had to find a different adaptation or rerout power somehow
borg on trans now have adapted, shields work fine.
check me on this, my visual memory is poor.
Where the borg were shouldn't have mattered, as they would have nothing to prevent communication of adaptation data. The issue is power draw, and some of the borg messing with the ent plasma conduits and whatnot might have been creating a method by which to draw shield power.

Just watched my recording, so now I can talk abut this. This order would be right, but one problem. After it shows the Borg on he Ent. adapting, it cuts back to the transport and shows Archer killing two or three more beforethey finally adapt. Could it be that the Enterprise security were still using the low power ones?

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2003-05-07 11:09pm

weemadando wrote:
Embracer Of Darkness wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:IIRC those torpedoes smashed the sphere to shit, blasting it into billions of tiny fragments. I don't any pieces of debris would survive re-entry.

And even if it did, how would the Borg drones survive the impact with the ground?
[Trekkie] THEY HAVE SHIELDS! BORG DRONES HAVE SHIELDS THAT COULD STOP THAT KE! THE WARSIES ARE LYING! YOU'RE ALL LYING AND I LOVE MY FAKE VIBRATING VAGINA! LIES! DAMN LIES AND GEORGE LUCAS FILMS![/Trekkie]

Im no trekkie but for continuity purposes could it not be possible that the nano probes survived reentry and then somehow found a host on earth?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-05-07 11:41pm

Icehawk wrote:Im no trekkie but for continuity purposes could it not be possible that the nano probes survived reentry and then somehow found a host on earth?

No, They would be the first thing that would melt because they are so small. The Chance of any living thing surviving those temperatures is so small that only one species of bacteria could even possibly survive is one that is adapted for life in volcanic vents. The Heat of Re-entry would incinterate both the drones and the vaunted nanoprobe with them leaving only small pieces of slab reaching the surface. Also the sphere was destroyed over Montana the pieces would fall to the west of there not to the north!

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-05-07 11:43pm

Atavarius wrote:I thought it was a pretty good episode considering it was Enterprise, but one thing is bothering me. According to Voyager all Borg are controlled through a Vinculum, which is basically their CPU right? Now if thats true and the Borg CPU was on the transport ship shouldn't they have been able to adapt to Reed's pumped phasers (my bad phase pistols) first? The Borg who beamed onto Ent. were shrugging off PP blasts like nothing, while the ones on the transport were Ramboed.

hmmmm i suppose i am reaching here, but that was something that kinda puzzeled me.

It could be that the ones on the enterprise were being hit with non-pumped phase pistols. I don't think they had the time to modify them all.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-05-08 12:51am

Isolder74 wrote:No, They would be the first thing that would melt because they are so small. The Chance of any living thing surviving those temperatures is so small that only one species of bacteria could even possibly survive is one that is adapted for life in volcanic vents. The Heat of Re-entry would incinterate both the drones and the vaunted nanoprobe with them leaving only small pieces of slab reaching the surface. Also the sphere was destroyed over Montana the pieces would fall to the west of there not to the north!

Actually, assuming some nanoprobes survived the explosion of the Borg sphere (or the explosion of the deflector dish) they would not get harmed by re-entry due to their negligible mass. Remember that meteorite dust lands in Antarctica all the time and isn't damaged; it doesn't have the mass to achieve a high enough speed to burn.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-05-08 01:10am

Crayz9000 wrote:Actually, assuming some nanoprobes survived the explosion of the Borg sphere (or the explosion of the deflector dish) they would not get harmed by re-entry due to their negligible mass. Remember that meteorite dust lands in Antarctica all the time and isn't damaged; it doesn't have the mass to achieve a high enough speed to burn.

The Borg Drones are seen in proximity to thing that do have the mass to generate such heat. I am a Electronics Engineering Major and it is a fact that the smaller you make a object the less heat it can tolerate. The control systems of the Nanoprobe could not survive any re-entry. The dust landing in Antartica is much smaller then it was when it started into the atmospere. The poles also are unique in that the Earth is rotating there at a slower rate making re-entry velocities slightly slower before impact. There are tons more of space dust that never makes it into the atmoshere. The speeds at which orbital objects travel would not be good for the nanoprobes. The dust that does make it in is moving farely slow when it hits the amosphere so it sort of sifts down. The Nano probes you are proposing are already traveling at orbital velocity. Besides how do they end up in the artic when the cube was destroyed over Montana? In reality a nano robot would have a extreme hard time surviving the radiation hitting it from the sun that it would receive in ordit anyway. If the hardware controlling them doesn't fuse the micro mechanical parts would not last very long.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-05-08 01:14am

I'm not saying that the nanoprobes are omnipotent. I'm just saying that they have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving reentry.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-05-08 01:17am

Crayz9000 wrote:I'm not saying that the nanoprobes are omnipotent. I'm just saying that they have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving reentry.

Then we both agree