Acceleration of the death of the big labels?

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2003-05-07 11:58pm

This could possibly be posted in the politics forum, but I felt it was also a moral issue:

As we all know, the RIAA and numerous large companies in the music industry have been rather bitchy about the fact that there's a change happening in the conventions of the music industry that they don't want to follow, and as a result are slowly dying. Well, while they've been complaining about the gargantuan losses they have been suffering, I've been pondering the amount that some music groups are getting from their records. I've heard figures like 5%, or even cases where they don't see a cent! In reguards to downloading, I have considdered bypassing the whole big industry and sending $4 per equivilant CD's worth of downloaded tunes directly to the artist. That's probably more cash per CD sold to them than through the label.

I am aware of the fact that this may affect some people in between that aren't directly involved, IE: studio techs and some producers, but I think that the focus needs to be given to the music, not the guys in the offices. I'm thinking perhaps a "Pay the artist"campaign might be one possibility?

Thots on the issue?

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-08 12:10am

I think this has been done somewhere's before. Only thing is that I don't trust any type of fund like this to actually reach teh artist intact...

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2003-05-08 12:29am

EmperorMing wrote:I think this has been done somewhere's before. Only thing is that I don't trust any type of fund like this to actually reach teh artist intact...

I'm not thinking of a fund. What I'm thinking of is giving some cash directly to the artist, bypassing all the wonderful middlemen. Care to explain how you came up with the idea of there being a fund mentioned in my previous post? I don't think I mentioned any....

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-05-08 01:01am

Paypal-assisted downloading. You'd have to ensure that people don't Kazaa the fuck out of it however.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2003-05-08 01:55am

kojikun wrote:Paypal-assisted downloading. You'd have to ensure that people don't Kazaa the fuck out of it however.

Were I an up-and-coming artist, I would do this. Or paypal for CDs. I think the idealist MP3 thieves would jump at this opportunity. The casual thieves, on the other hand...they're gonna need something like the Fritz chip to stop them, unfortunately.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-08 02:03am

The RIAA could easily pull out the big guns and severely impact piracy by simply prosecuting individual people who download tunes. The problem is the PR impact of prosecuting Joe Ordinary, a teenager downloading MP3 tunes on his parents' computer.

It would be horrendous; much worse than going after Napster and Verizon and these other organizations. People would be outraged that a teenager is being thrown in prison or his parents bankrupted with a gigantic fine.

But after a few such "examples", people would be more reluctant to download. They can threaten all they like, but no one listens because no one takes it seriously. No one takes it seriously because no one seriously believes they're going to go after an ordinary person for downloading music, even though the traffic is eminently traceable and it would not be difficult to track down individual music downloaders.

Not to scare anyone, but this is a tactic that the RIAA might try if they get desperate, and their remaining efforts to shut piracy down at the source fail.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2003-05-08 02:13am

They already raped those 4 college students pretty good, settling for 12-17K apiece instead of the ludicrous 90+ billion. Well, from my POV, anyway. 12 grand is a shitload of money to me.

They problem with prosecuting people like that is that you'd scare the average user into not only not downloading, but not buying music period. You'd still have the really hardcore pirates downloading stuff (like via IRC) and then turning around and doing a brisk black-market business selling Joe Teenager the newest Incubus album. So in eliminating one problem, you make a new one that's even worse.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-08 02:15am

Alferd Packer wrote:They already raped those 4 college students pretty good, settling for 12-17K apiece instead of the ludicrous 90+ billion. Well, from my POV, anyway. 12 grand is a shitload of money to me.

They went after people running servers and moving a LOT of data around. Going after the casual downloader would be a whole new scenario.

They problem with prosecuting people like that is that you'd scare the average user into not only not downloading, but not buying music period. You'd still have the really hardcore pirates downloading stuff (like via IRC) and then turning around and doing a brisk black-market business selling Joe Teenager the newest Incubus album. So in eliminating one problem, you make a new one that's even worse.

No, in the old days, people bought CD's because they felt they had no choice. If they honestly feel like they have no choice again, they'll buy CD's again. They might not buy as many as the RIAA would like, but they'll certainly stop pirating so much.

The fact that it would be utterly ruthless and cost the RIAA its last scrap of public sympathy might dissuade them from this course of action, but it's the gorilla in the closet. You never know if it might come out.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2003-05-08 02:31am

Darth Wong wrote:No, in the old days, people bought CD's because they felt they had no choice. If they honestly feel like they have no choice again, they'll buy CD's again. They might not buy as many as the RIAA would like, but they'll certainly stop pirating so much.

See, I'm not so sure that would happen, only because of what I heard used to happen in high school. There was this kid a year below me who apparently burned and sold Dreamcast games at a cut rate. I thought and still think it was absolutely detestable, but I never actually found out who he was (it was always a "friend of a friend of a firend" deal), and you know how teenagers embellish shit. He was always described as turbo-l33t, but I bet that he burned one game once and his friends exaggerated from there.

The point of this story? In a given high school in Suburbia, USA or Canada, for every 100 casual pirates, there might be one hardcore guy who's not paid for a song for the last seven years. Deciding to keep the cause alive, he surreptitiously spreads the word that he'll get any album anyone wants for half the price of the stores. What average kid wouldn't go for that? Granted, there will be those who go back to buying the same shit music for the same outrageous prices, but in scaring those straight, you have a much more damaging problem emerge.

The fact that it would be utterly ruthless and cost the RIAA its last scrap of public sympathy might dissuade them from this course of action, but it's the gorilla in the closet. You never know if it might come out.

At their heart, the RIAA doesn't want people to like them, it just wants to stop them from stealing. And you're absolutely right, this would utterly ruin their image. This is where I think you might get this culture of resistance, for lack of better term: Joe Teenager goes to jail, and all his friends suddenly decide to rage against the machine by turning into hardcore pirates.

Unfortunately, human behavior is remarkably unpredictable, except on its most basic levels, so I freely admit that this is just idle speculation. I hope I never get to see whether I'm right about any of this or not.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-05-08 03:20am

I guess I'm a casual thief

OTOH, maybe it's because I don't have much interest in music at all. I have no issues with pirating the crap out of music, yet I only have about a dozen tunes in my computer.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-05-08 04:45am

Darth Wong wrote:But after a few such "examples", people would be more reluctant to download. They can threaten all they like, but no one listens because no one takes it seriously. No one takes it seriously because no one seriously believes they're going to go after an ordinary person for downloading music, even though the traffic is eminently traceable and it would not be difficult to track down individual music downloaders.

Not to scare anyone, but this is a tactic that the RIAA might try if they get desperate, and their remaining efforts to shut piracy down at the source fail.

Even if they did prosecute thousands, the chance that anyone would personally fall victim is still less than one in a thousand.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-08 06:37am

Saurencaerthai wrote:
EmperorMing wrote:I think this has been done somewhere's before. Only thing is that I don't trust any type of fund like this to actually reach teh artist intact...
I'm not thinking of a fund. What I'm thinking of is giving some cash directly to the artist, bypassing all the wonderful middlemen. Care to explain how you came up with the idea of there being a fund mentioned in my previous post? I don't think I mentioned any....

Something like this could very easily morph into a fund. If I am seeing it that way, you can bet others would too.

I do understand the concept of paying the artist directly; but a fund is something that I still see coming up.

Just looking beyond this...

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-05-08 11:13am

I have an idea: On demand internet radio.

Just like your normal internet radiostation, only with advertisements (i like them, actually. they add some change to the sound) and with an on demand music selection.

Basically, you would be able to listen to any song you want, free of charge, over streaming MP3, but every 5 or 10 songs, there would be a commercial or two, to support the netcasting, like public TV and radio works. The stuff would be relevant to the type of music being listened too, so you wont get Trojan condoms commercials while listening to Bach, or Mens Warehouse commercials while listening to Iron Maiden.

Or perhaps a download program that has a mandatory advertisement like Opera has, or something. As long as there is some way for the company or artist to make some money.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-08 11:25am

kojikun wrote:I have an idea: On demand internet radio.

Listen to my radio show. Check OT for the relevant thread.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2003-05-08 04:11pm

EmperorMing wrote:
Saurencaerthai wrote:
EmperorMing wrote:I think this has been done somewhere's before. Only thing is that I don't trust any type of fund like this to actually reach teh artist intact...
I'm not thinking of a fund. What I'm thinking of is giving some cash directly to the artist, bypassing all the wonderful middlemen. Care to explain how you came up with the idea of there being a fund mentioned in my previous post? I don't think I mentioned any....
Something like this could very easily morph into a fund. If I am seeing it that way, you can bet others would too.

I do understand the concept of paying the artist directly; but a fund is something that I still see coming up.

Just looking beyond this...

Yes, I do see that happening already, however, that was not what I was getting at

One of the main reasons I have no issue with downloading music is because I know that if I like the artist enough to have many tunes by them on my machine, I most certainly will want to support them by buying their stuff eventually. However, I want to support them, not a guy in an office who did not even come up with one note of the music they made. What I am thinking of is more of an idea than an organization. There is no body to give the money to, other than the artist.

So, say I wanted to support the group Bal Sagoth, but didn't want them to get raped by the record company (while Nuclear Blast records is better than Cacaphonious Records, it still isn't the best deal). I'd download the stuff, but I would send them some money directly, rather than paying the $16 for a CD. (note: this is just an example, I support Nuclear Blast for taking artists that other labels wouldn't dare touch)

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-08 05:14pm

Is there any way to make yourself untraceable on a P2P network?

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-05-08 05:26pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Is there any way to make yourself untraceable on a P2P network?

It depends on the network; at any rate, untraceability is the goal of freenet.

Gnutella is as close to an untraceable network as you'll get without using encryption, and that's one reason why I only use Gnutella.

Hethrir · Post by **Hethrir** » 2003-05-09 07:38am

Pot calling the kettle black! the RIAA is a bunch of thieving criminals! Scum sucking whores!

Piracy will never be eliminated, so why not admit its advantages? I admit to the occasional illegal copy - but it's to see if i like something. I own ALL my music CDs 'cause i pirate, listen, if i like it, i buy it. It has saved my $30 of crap numerous times.

The music (and game for that matter) industry claims "billions" in lost money from piracy. What crap. If CDs couldn't be copied, do you really think Joe teenager has the cash to buy all the music he downloads?

Look at piracy in China. Artists make money from live concerts, where the real skill is. Their CDs act more as promotional items, which sell for stupidly small amounts.

Case Study: Metallica. They crack down on all pirates. Many fans turn away. Not that i would anyway (black and onwards sucked ass), but i REALLY would never buy another metallica CD again (yes i own all pre-black albums). Joe Satriani (paraphrased) said, a kid downloads a song, likes it, goes to a metallica concert, buys a t-shirt and then buys an album. profit? nearly $100, where no such thing would have happened if he had not d/l the song.

arggg i can rave about this forever! But as an upcomming album releaser, i don't care if people pirate my stuff. If someone is rich enough and likes it enough they will buy it, or go to a concert, so all it does is spread the word.

Cap'n Hector · Post by **Cap'n Hector** » 2003-05-09 05:21pm

Do a search on Six/Four...it's a protocol designed to make your connection totally anonymous. It's currently in development.