a question for the table top war gamers.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2003-05-06 08:17pm

being bored I delved into the world of minature battles and came up with some results. Just wanted to know if anyones heard of these and if they're any good.

Void1.1
Ronin
Stargrunt 2
Kryomek
Cry H.A.V.I.C.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-05-06 08:24pm

Haven't really heard of any of those. B.A.Y.O.R.

I'd suggest looking into Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, or Gear Krieg, personally. But then I am just a tad bit biased.

Warhammer/40K/Gothic is rather nice as well.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-05-06 11:12pm

Yes 40K* forever! Though it is horribly expensive...

*Failure to serve the Emperor may result in lashes, beatings, stonings, torture in general, massive amounts of extreme pain, death, and/or a moderate fine.

Shortie · Post by **Shortie** » 2003-05-07 05:20am

I've heard good things about VOID, the rules are free and the models aren'y too pricy. It does look quite fun, with some nifty models, but I've never actually met anyone in RL who plays it.
Here's a link to a reasonably busy VOID forum and the downloads:
http://www.miniforums.com/discussions/
http://www.i-kore.com/site1/html/void_downloads.htm

40K may very well have the best models and fluff, but it's very expensive. OTOH therre are a lot of players out there, even if you do keep getting screwed over by GW.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2003-05-07 07:45pm

I have the 40K core rulebook and codexes Eldar, Tau, Space Marine and Tyranid. having someone to play with isn't a problem as they work well in free form RP.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-05-07 07:48pm

Tasoth wrote:I have the 40K core rulebook and codexes Eldar, Tau, Space Marine and Tyranid. having someone to play with isn't a problem as they work well in free form RP.

In that case, Heavy Gear/Jovian Chronicles/Gear Krieg should be right up your alley, as the mesh seamlessly into a slick RPG universe. Shouldn't be too hard to make into a Free-Form RPG, either, given the nature of the die rolls that the system uses.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2003-05-07 08:52pm

I actually own both HG games for PC. Problem is though, a munchkin uses heavy gear and white wolf all the time and I think its damaging my view on them. You even try to use the same system or even mention it and he spazes like he's grand puba of the player character police. I'm was also looking at jovian chronicles a while ago.....

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-05-07 09:20pm

Tasoth wrote:I actually own both HG games for PC.

Those games do not accurately portray the tabletop system, however. They do a decent job at times, but in the end, they are fun computer games and little more.

Problem is though, a munchkin uses heavy gear and white wolf all the time and I think its damaging my view on them. You even try to use the same system or even mention it and he spazes like he's grand puba of the player character police. I'm was also looking at jovian chronicles a while ago.....

Munchkins are munchkins, they exist no matter what the system. In Warhamer, we call them "beardy players". Heavy Gear makes it rather easy to come down hard on overly munchkin-ish players, especially in the RPG scale. Munchkins want power, power, and even more power. So long as they aren't cheating or overtly breaking and bending rules in their favor to get it, fine. It won't be easy, but I'll let them, if that's how they want to play. I have a character in one game I run who is an uber-sniper of doom, with a +2 accuracy rifle with a killer scope (+1 at long/extreme ranges), +2 perception, level 3 sniping with a specialization in his rifle. If he aims for three rounds, he adds a +10 to his attacks at long or extreme range after rolling 3D6 and picking the highest. Needless to say that in Silhouette, a +10 to ANY roll is disgustingly huge, even if it is tempered by the -2 to long range and -3 to extreme range. So at extreme range he gets a +7, and at long range he gets a +8. Roll 3D6 and pick the highest, chances are pretty darn good that you will get a 4 or higher. 4+8=12, which translates into "pray for divine intervention" in the Silhouette system. Should he happen to roll a full critical hit (all 6s), then it's 6+(1)+(1)+8=16. Even assuming the poor bastard he shot at rolled a 6 to dodge (which is pretty damned good), that's a 10 margin of success. The damage multiplier on his sniper rifle is x35. That's 350 (or 35 in the tactical scale) damage with one shot, enough to give a anything below a Jaguar heavy damage.

Does that bother me? No, not really. It doesn't unbalance the game overly much, and I could have had him killed at any time through a number of methods. Grenades are particularly nasty, as is suppresive fire. If you're doing role-playing primarily, just remind the other guy that min-maxing stats is not a good idea. People with certain stats below -2 are so pathetic as to be considered psychopaths (low PSY), morons (low KNO), wishy-washy (low WIL), ugly as sin (low APP), social rejects (low INF), and entirely incapable of independant thought (low CRE).

Also, force feed him some realism if you need to. Munchkins tend to live in a world of self-masturbatory fantasies, where supply lines, order of battle, and intelligence mean nothing. The only thing that matters is pure destructive potential. There's a reason not every Gear runs around with a Heavy Bazooka, the ammo is large, rather expensive, and limited. It is reserved for specialist armor-hunting units. If he's making his own gears, tanks, and aircraft, remind him that going overboard on perks and flaws is ridiculous and quite often unrealistic. If he's doing the classic "vulnerable to haywire" schtick, then send some CEF HT-72s or HT-68s his way and see how much he likes it then.

But I rant.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2003-05-07 09:31pm

Some how the he deveoped a gear with a railgun that fires at C and it may fire photorps, not sure. But then again, thats the perils of RPing where any idea goes...

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-07 09:56pm

Some friends and I once developed a Napeolonic system for 1:72 scale models. Worked quite well.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-05-07 11:15pm

Tasoth wrote:Some how the he deveoped a gear with a railgun that fires at C and it may fire photorps, not sure. But then again, thats the perils of RPing where any idea goes...

That's just patently ridiculous. Your friend goes above and beyond the call of the normal munchkin. Normal munchkins at least follow the rules, even if they do exploit them. He's just on a power trip, and no setting or system would ever fix that. What he needs is a healthy dose of reality, big time. Railguns in Heavy Gear do not even come CLOSE to the speed of light. The Heavy Railgun is said to propel a 10mm slug to "hypersonic" velocities, so equal to or greater than about 5 times the speed of sound.

Also, that's just a 10mm SLUG. Not an explosive, and certainly not a photon torpedo (which is the size of a freaking COFFIN and isn't even remotely near anything used in Heavy Gear to begin with).

I suggest that you either attempt to snap your friend out of his self-fellating power fantasies or just simply ignore him. I'm now reminded of the freeform Super-Saiyajin Jedi Mage character I saw once who had lightsabers and blaster rifles, more power than Luke, Goku, and Elminster rolled into one, and was playing in a fantasy setting. It's bullshit masturbatory power fantasies like that which give freeform roleplaying a bad name.

Shortie · Post by **Shortie** » 2003-05-08 09:43am

Tasoth wrote:Some how the he deveoped a gear with a railgun that fires at C and it may fire photorps, not sure. But then again, thats the perils of RPing where any idea goes...

Explain to him that the recoil just sent him flying back off a cliff. Or that the pho-torp couldn't take the air friction and exploded 50m in front of him.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2003-05-08 09:19pm

Reality doesn't wrok. I routinely cause him to spaz as I ask him Why? and try to interject reality. Its almost as bad as his Naquida lensed tachyon gun that was supposedly unstoppable. Don't remember how that turned out.....

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2003-05-08 09:21pm

D'oh! friggen mind finger relays...

I've tried the friction thing with the cannon and his uber wank atmosphere FTL shuttle. Doesn't work, like trying to convince a rock its not a rock.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-05-08 09:39pm

Tasoth wrote:Reality doesn't wrok. I routinely cause him to spaz as I ask him Why? and try to interject reality. Its almost as bad as his Naquida lensed tachyon gun that was supposedly unstoppable. Don't remember how that turned out.....

See, free form games can be fun. Free-form combat is always a bit difficult, but between two mature players, and maybe a GM or moderator of some sort, it can work out pretty well. It's like when you were a child, playing cops and robbers. You'd go "bang, bang", or shoot your plastic disk gun at the other kid, and if they were playing along, they'd go "urg!" and die, or at least be wounded. But there was always the kid who went, "Uh-uh! You didn't hit me! You missed by a mile! Now I'm gonna shoot you! Bang!" Play with toy guns instead of your fingers, and he'd change his tune to, "Oh yeah, well I'm wearing a bulletproof vest!" or "I'm Superman, your bullets just bounced off, see?" This ruins the game for everyone, as the kid will do whatever it takes to win every time, even if it's just by annoying the living fuck out of everyone else. There are two basic solutions to this: Explain the game to him so that he plays by the same rules as everyone else, or ignore him.

If your friend is not responding to reality, I'd say screw it. Let him have his little technowank bullshit, just ignore it every time he tries to use it. Trivialize it. If he doesn't like it, too bad, so sad. He can make whatever he wants, but you don't have to recognize it.

How old is he, 11? 12? If so, he might grow out of it eventually. If not...well, it is the Internet. There's no shortage of other people you can play with.