Is this a way that Treknology could defeat a Jedi?

[Howedar]

You forgot to explain how a jedi would allow himself to get into that situation in the first place.

The same way it happened in AOTC, if nothing else. Don't be a stupid fanboy.

[AdmiralKanos]

Is the Transporter really necessary ? A few hundred redshirts moving in at the Jedi from all directions while fireing generic phaser rifles should be able to get a hit.

The Geonosians needed more battledroids than that, despite heavier firepower, distraction and fire support by the Geonosians and their big sonic cannon, AND the shroud of the darkside weakening the Jedi.

Jedi aren’t exactly immune to a large number of weapons being fire at them at once, as shown in AOTC. The phasers may have a slower rate of fire than battledroids’s guns but a large number of them would be able to bring down a Jedi.

You figure that sending a smaller force with less powerful weapons (and no heavy weapons like the Geonosian sonic cannon) against the Jedi at the peak of their powers rather than their weakened AOTC state should somehow produce the same or better result?

[Darth Servo]

You forgot to explain how a jedi would allow himself to get into that situation in the first place.

The same way it happened in AOTC, if nothing else.

IIRC, in this scenario there isn't anyone to rescue and no sepratists to arrest AND no dark side weakening their pre-cog. YOU need to provide a reason a jedi would be lured into such an obvious trap.

Don't be a stupid fanboy.

Don't be such a stupid asshole for trying to compare two scenarios that aren't even remotely similar.

[Admiral Johnason]

Would a phaser from TOS set to destory and ultra wide beam have any affect?

[General G]

You figure that sending a smaller force with less powerful weapons (and no heavy weapons like the Geonosian sonic cannon) against the Jedi at the peak of their powers rather than their weakened AOTC state should somehow produce the same or better result?

Not even close to the same results, even against a single jedi.

But they would have a chance if they managed to get into postions were the entire group could fire on the jedi from all directions and make it harder for the jedi to block their weapons fire. Even if they did manage to win casualties would be Very high.

This is assuming they could even get into the position before the jedi detected them, or they are even capable of firing at a rate fast enough to overwhelm the jedi which is doubtful because their inadequate weapons.

[Darth Servo]

Would a phaser from TOS set to destory and ultra wide beam have any affect?

Whats the most we've ever seen a phaser "destroy"?

[Admiral Johnason]

Would a phaser from TOS set to destory and ultra wide beam have any affect?

Whats the most we've ever seen a phaser "destroy"?

They have disintragated large boulders, groups of people, and blasted through metal.

[Howedar]

*whiny fanboyish bitching snipped*

Fine, they all beam down in a circle around him and start shooting. Is that better? Or maybe you want the transporters to be disabled for some reason. Sure, I can live with that. All the yellowshirts drive up in two dozen ST:N buggies. Or shit, maybe the Jedi's back is just against a wall and they all walk up.

[Darth Servo]

*whiny fanboyish bitching snipped*

Since you were insulting me just as much, bite me.

Fine, they all beam down in a circle around him and start shooting.

And how long does it take for a transporter to materialize? Several seconds? The Jedi is outta there before the Fed idiots know what happened.

All the yellowshirts drive up in two dozen ST:N buggies.

Same story: plenty of warning for the jedi.

Or shit, maybe the Jedi's back is just against a wall and they all walk up.

Just leap over them. Watch TPM.

[Howedar]

And how long does it take for a transporter to materialize? Several seconds? The Jedi is outta there before the Fed idiots know what happened.

As of TPM, several seconds equates to at most several hundred feet for the Jedi. Close enough for massed phaser fire.

Same story: plenty of warning for the jedi.

So Jedi can run faster than cars now? Whoa, shit!

Just leap over them. Watch TPM.

I did. Jedi can jump pretty far. Of course, then the yellowshirts just have to turn around...

[Connor MacLeod]

And how long does it take for a transporter to materialize? Several seconds? The Jedi is outta there before the Fed idiots know what happened.

As of TPM, several seconds equates to at most several hundred feet for the Jedi. Close enough for massed phaser fire.

Same story: plenty of warning for the jedi.

So Jedi can run faster than cars now? Whoa, shit!

Just leap over them. Watch TPM.

I did. Jedi can jump pretty far. Of course, then the yellowshirts just have to turn around...

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

Mike did an analysis of TPM, and proved that Jedi can accelerate at tens of gravities, minimum. On top of that, they CAN run as fast as cars.

Don't beileve me, check the link. And if you dont like it, take it up with Mike.

[AdmiralKanos]

As of TPM, several seconds equates to at most several hundred feet for the Jedi. Close enough for massed phaser fire.

News flash: as of ROTJ, a Jedi can casually wave his hand and kill them all with Force-chokes (yes, Luke did it; it's not exclusively a Sith behaviour). This has been known for 20 years now. Goodbye, you are the weakest link.

[Lord of the Farce]

As of TPM, several seconds equates to at most several hundred feet for the Jedi. Close enough for massed phaser fire.

And what's going to happen when the Jedi swipe their lightsabre through the materialising Redshirts? And what happens if the Jedi that are surrounded take a quick Force jump over or duck under the fire at the last second? Now what if you combine that with what Connor and Mike brought up?


Ouch.

[Patrick Ogaard]

As of TPM, several seconds equates to at most several hundred feet for the Jedi. Close enough for massed phaser fire.

News flash: as of ROTJ, a Jedi can casually wave his hand and kill them all with Force-chokes (yes, Luke did it; it's not exclusively a Sith behaviour). This has been known for 20 years now. Goodbye, you are the weakest link.

A Jedi with just a basic understanding of how Trek transporters are supposed to work should be able to do something much nastier.

Unless I am entirely mistaken (which has been known to happen), the rematerialization process of the transporter includes the establishment of an annular confinement beam of the same sort that the initial demateriallization process requires. Since physical force, such as Roga Danar's forceful struggling, can be adequate to disrupt an annular confinement beam, Force-based telekinesis should be similarly effective. This, however, does assume that the Jedi has read a Federation children's pop-up book on how transporters work.

The scenario would then become this:

1. The columns of sparkly lights appear all around the Jedi.

2. The Jedi concentrates hard and generates a telekinetic wave (or multiple waves), catastrophically deforming the confinement beams.

3. Federation troops materialize as lumps of coal, as fireworks explosions, and in the form of unlucky extras from the Hellraiser movies, as their patterns are fatally scrambled.

4. A lucky few Federation troops are yanked back by the transporter operators and come back shaken but alive.

5. An unlucky few Federation troops materialize in the target area shaken but alive, and then either go mad as they see their compatriots turned into horror movie scenery or are quickly cut down by the Jedi.

[Striderteen]

Indeed...using a transporter seems needlessly complicated, and managing to get it locked would probably be a real nightmare.

[Pendragon]

As of TPM, several seconds equates to at most several hundred feet for the Jedi. Close enough for massed phaser fire.

News flash: as of ROTJ, a Jedi can casually wave his hand and kill them all with Force-chokes (yes, Luke did it; it's not exclusively a Sith behaviour). This has been known for 20 years now. Goodbye, you are the weakest link.

Kill them all? Were talking a few hundred here... has there ever been evidence of someone choking more than one person at a time, let alone one hundred.

And I'm curious, since I'm not really sure what the ST Phasers are firing, but can they be deflected by a lightsabre or does the Jedi just have to move his pretty little behind out of the way like the rest of us mortals to avoid getting killed?

And WHY is everyone assuming that your average generic Jedi has powers on par with Luke/Vader/Yoda/Dooku?

[AdmiralKanos]

Kill them all? Were talking a few hundred here... has there ever been evidence of someone choking more than one person at a time, let alone one hundred.

Luke choked two Gamorrean guards simultaneously, and continued walking without even looking back even as they were continuing to suffocate. Have you even watched the movies?

It took a fraction of a second to start choking each guard, and they continued suffocating even after he appeared to move on. And the force required to life multi-ton objects is far more than one needs to crush the larynxes of a dozen or even a hundred men.

And I'm curious, since I'm not really sure what the ST Phasers are firing, but can they be deflected by a lightsabre or does the Jedi just have to move his pretty little behind out of the way like the rest of us mortals to avoid getting killed?

Why wouldn't they be deflected by a lightsabre? The only other thing that deflects blaster bolts in SW is shielding; are you one of those people who thinks phasers should be assumed to pass effortlessly through shielding until proven otherwise?

And WHY is everyone assuming that your average generic Jedi has powers on par with Luke/Vader/Yoda/Dooku?

The average generic Jedi has superior skills to Luke. You cannot seriously compare Obi-Wan in his prime to Luke.

On the contrary, it appears that most of the tactics for attacking a Jedi are based on the notion that he will just stand there passively and allow things to be done to him. I'm tired of this "reasoning"; a Jedi in peak form has numerous forms of offense and incredible speed/acceleration. An entire Naboo commando team would rather face three droidekas than attempt to get past a single Sith apprentice. Federation troops, on the other hand, are routinely overrun by screaming idiots wielding bat'leths. There is simply no contest. Beam down a bunch of redshirts into the vicinity of a Jedi knight, and all you have is redshirt sushi.

[Howedar]

Assuming that because Luke can choke two people, he can choke several hundred? That's my favorite fallacy.

[Pendragon]

Kill them all? Were talking a few hundred here... has there ever been evidence of someone choking more than one person at a time, let alone one hundred.

Luke choked two Gamorrean guards simultaneously, and continued walking without even looking back even as they were continuing to suffocate. Have you even watched the movies?

I have, apparently not recently enough, since I had forgot that. Still, there's quite a difference between two and a few hundred, but granted, I guess it could be done by Luke Skywalker, assuming it doesent get harder to do at longer ranges (the Gamorreans were a foot or so away iirc, granted Vader has been seen to choke ONE person located on a different starship).
I remain skeptical to the assumption that a generic Jedi can choke 100+ people with a wave of his hand.

It took a fraction of a second to start choking each guard, and they continued suffocating even after he appeared to move on. And the force required to life multi-ton objects is far more than one needs to crush the larynxes of a dozen or even a hundred men.

And I'm curious, since I'm not really sure what the ST Phasers are firing, but can they be deflected by a lightsabre or does the Jedi just have to move his pretty little behind out of the way like the rest of us mortals to avoid getting killed?

Why wouldn't they be deflected by a lightsabre? The only other thing that deflects blaster bolts in SW is shielding; are you one of those people who thinks phasers should be assumed to pass effortlessly through shielding until proven otherwise?

Woah, calm down. I was just asking since I havent seen anyone mention it before. I simply asked you since you seem to be considred the highest authority on the matter. A simple "yes" or "no" would suffice.

And WHY is everyone assuming that your average generic Jedi has powers on par with Luke/Vader/Yoda/Dooku?

The average generic Jedi has superior skills to Luke. You cannot seriously compare Obi-Wan in his prime to Luke.

Meh, and here was I thinking Luke was the uber-jedi. So would you say Vader is inferior to Kenobi as well?

On the contrary, it appears that most of the tactics for attacking a Jedi are based on the notion that he will just stand there passively and allow things to be done to him. I'm tired of this "reasoning"; a Jedi in peak form has numerous forms of offense and incredible speed/acceleration. An entire Naboo commando team would rather face three droidekas than attempt to get past a single Sith apprentice. Federation troops, on the other hand, are routinely overrun by screaming idiots wielding bat'leths. There is simply no contest. Beam down a bunch of redshirts into the vicinity of a Jedi knight, and all you have is redshirt sushi.

No dispute there, but I'd say "a bunch" is a lot less than "hundreds" or even "a hundred". And it always seems like the Jedi knows exactly what the enemies capabilities are, while the enemies are completely unprepared for Force powers.

Am I disputing the fact that a Jedi can carve up one, two or three dozen redshirts? No

A few hundred? Hell yeah. The staggering amount of fire they could throw in his direction is just overwhelming. In fact they could probably keep firing for a little while while they were suffocating. I wonder if a Jedi can keep the necessary concentration to choke hundreds of people while trying to deflect and dodge hundreds of phaser blasts.

Granted it's an unlikely scenario, since the Jedi would try to avoid ending up in the situation, but considering the fact that Jedi's suffer from arrogance and overconfidence like the rest of us do, its not impossible, even if it is improbable.

Now, a couple of un- or semirelated questions:

1) Is there a limit to how long a Jedi can maintain his superspeed and how often he could use it?

2) Does SW sheilding stop a lightsabre or even slow it down? If so, what about ST sheilding?

[consequences]

We have EU references to Magnetically sealed chambers stopping lightsabers(Rebel Stand, Garbage Compactor, Han and Leia's escape).
ST is a lot more problematical, Capital ship shields, sure, internal hallway forcefields, probably not.
And if its so freaking easy to fuck with three hundred people, why didn't the Jedi in AOTC just pop all of the heads off of the battledroids? Or hit the internal system reboot button or whatever. Hell, nudge the blasters 12 degrees to the left on all of them behind the first line, and force pull the trigger.

[Striderteen]

As of TPM, several seconds equates to at most several hundred feet for the Jedi. Close enough for massed phaser fire.

News flash: as of ROTJ, a Jedi can casually wave his hand and kill them all with Force-chokes (yes, Luke did it; it's not exclusively a Sith behaviour). This has been known for 20 years now. Goodbye, you are the weakest link.

Kill them all? Were talking a few hundred here... has there ever been evidence of someone choking more than one person at a time, let alone one hundred.

And I'm curious, since I'm not really sure what the ST Phasers are firing, but can they be deflected by a lightsabre or does the Jedi just have to move his pretty little behind out of the way like the rest of us mortals to avoid getting killed?

And WHY is everyone assuming that your average generic Jedi has powers on par with Luke/Vader/Yoda/Dooku?

Telekinetic Force choking has always been used singly; although Luke was able to continue choking the Gammoreans behind his back as he passed by them to confront Bib Fortuna, he had to focus on them singly to initiate the attack (he turned to face each one and made a hand gesture, whereupon they clutched their throats and backed away).
More mundane telekinetic manipulations appear to be somewhat more versatile, but also don’t appear to be capable of mass area destruction; Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon demonstrated the ability to knock down two or three droids at a time with sufficient force to disable them, but only when the droids were clustered fairly closely together.

Given that a wide-angle choke or telekinetic strike would have been extremely useful in situations like the Jedi fight at the Geonosis arena but was not used, I’d say the evidence indicates a Jedi probably can’t focus Force-based telekinetic powers choking or shoving on more than one or two targets at a time. He doesn’t have to be in physical proximity to the victim (as evidenced by Vader choking Ozzell over the Holonet connection), but he has to be able to focus on a specific target or direction.

On the other hand, Jedi seem to be reluctant to use their powers for mass destruction even in a life-and-death situation; a Sith would have no such compunctions, but we’ve never seen a Sith face off against a whole army.

[Lord Poe]

Assuming that because Luke can choke two people, he can choke several hundred? That's my favorite fallacy.

My favorite fallacy is Trekkie insistence that the Feds will send "several hundred" phaser-wielding redshirts after ONE being. Something we have NEVER seen happen, not even to a Q.

Ok, let's try this wankfest scenario out. Let's say "several hundred" Feds armed with phaser rifles are beamed into an area where a Jedi resides. What magical force is going to keep a Jedi in one spot while "several hundred" Feds beam in around him? What are these hundreds of troops going to do when the Jedi is simply no longer in the room?

What happens if the Jedi hides somewhere while the Feds are still sparkling, then manipulates a few Feds to shoot their fellow troops, a few to shoot themselves, have a few go "rethink their lives", a few suddenly find themselves weaponless and see their rifle sail away, while a few more are battered with everything in the room but the kitchen sink, while a few more are battered against walls, THEN, the Jedi comes in slashing away on the rest?

[Lord Poe]

granted Vader has been seen to choke ONE person located on a different starship).

Wrong. Both officers were choked on the Executor.

I remain skeptical to the assumption that a generic Jedi can choke 100+ people with a wave of his hand.

I remain skeptical that the Feds would send 100+ men after one being.

Meh, and here was I thinking Luke was the uber-jedi. So would you say Vader is inferior to Kenobi as well?

Not in their respective primes, no.

A few hundred? Hell yeah. The staggering amount of fire they could throw in his direction is just overwhelming. In fact they could probably keep firing for a little while while they were suffocating. I wonder if a Jedi can keep the necessary concentration to choke hundreds of people while trying to deflect and dodge hundreds of phaser blasts.

Again, you are expecting a lone Jedi to just stand in one spot while hundreds of people are shooting at him. Does this sound like a logical scenario to you?

1) Is there a limit to how long a Jedi can maintain his superspeed and how often he could use it?

Yes.

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc ... 01211.html

2) Does SW sheilding stop a lightsabre or even slow it down? If so, what about ST sheilding?

Depends on the strength of the shielding. Remember in TPM< Maul's lightsaber was blocked by the forcefields in the Naboo reactor chamber.

[Lord Poe]

Telekinetic Force choking has always been used singly; although Luke was able to continue choking the Gammoreans behind his back as he passed by them to confront Bib Fortuna, he had to focus on them singly to initiate the attack (he turned to face each one and made a hand gesture, whereupon they clutched their throats and backed away).

With a simple gesture of his hand. And the guards continued to choke after Luke passed them. Later in the film, Luke levitates C-3P0, then completely focuses on hugging and kissing Leia as 3P0 is STILL floating around.

More mundane telekinetic manipulations appear to be somewhat more versatile, but also don’t appear to be capable of mass area destruction; Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon demonstrated the ability to knock down two or three droids at a time with sufficient force to disable them, but only when the droids were clustered fairly closely together.

That's still no evidence that such a thing can't be done over a wider area.

Given that a wide-angle choke or telekinetic strike would have been extremely useful in situations like the Jedi fight at the Geonosis arena but was not used, I’d say the evidence indicates a Jedi probably can’t focus Force-based telekinetic powers choking or shoving on more than one or two targets at a time.

How would choking DROIDS help? Telekinetic strikes WERE used in that battle, BTW. You can't use Force shoves AND deflect incoming fire at the incredible rate it was coming in from the destroyer droids at the same time, obviously.

He doesn’t have to be in physical proximity to the victim (as evidenced by Vader choking Ozzell over the Holonet connection), but he has to be able to focus on a specific target or direction.

Vader didn't in TESB. He was throwing things at Luke from all sides with the Force and wasn't waving his arms around like a cheerleader. And you'll note that Vader didn't even use and hand gestures in the chokes he performed in TESB.

[Pendragon]

How would choking DROIDS help? Telekinetic strikes WERE used in that battle, BTW. You can't use Force shoves AND deflect incoming fire at the incredible rate it was coming in from the destroyer droids at the same time, obviously.

But you can force choke hundreds of feddies while theyre blasting away at you? Interesting...