Dealing with Rural Dope Growers...

[MKSheppard]

A very interesting thread that is worthy of attention:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=185597

Basically, a guy found out that dope growers were using his family's 48 acre
farm to grow pot.

[RedImperator]

I smell another drug argument coming. God, those are fun.

[MKSheppard]

I smell another drug argument coming. God, those are fun.

Personally, I'd burn the dope and shoot the scumsucking maggots who
don't have the balls to grow it on their own land, but instead
grow it on someone else's land, considering the penalties for dopegrowing...

[RedImperator]

Personally, I'd stop throwing people in jail for victimless crimes like using, possessing, and growing marijuana.

[Montcalm]

I`m not surprised here in Quebec every year a certain biker gang known as the H.A. use private fields to grow marijuana,and if the farmer see them they tell him if he want to live he should be somewhere else.

[Stormbringer]

Personally, I'd stop throwing people in jail for victimless crimes like using, possessing, and growing marijuana.

I've got to agree with Red on this one.

But so long as it remains illegal I'd first contact the appropriate authorites. If they don't do anything construct a good system of firew blocks and then torch their crop. Then put a nice "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be stabbed" sign in the middle of the ash heap. That should do the trick.

[MKSheppard]

Then put a nice "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be stabbed" sign in the middle of the ash heap. That should do the trick.

Problem is, dopegrowers are evil bastards, who aren't below getting you back.

[RedImperator]

I'd be hesitant to tell law enforcement anything about it. I'd be tempted to tear it up, burn it, and bury the ashes myself. Christ knows what they'll do to you if you call the police and say, "There's marijuana growing on my land," no matter what the explanation is.

[weemadando]

Then put a nice "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be stabbed" sign in the middle of the ash heap. That should do the trick.

Problem is, dopegrowers are evil bastards, who aren't below getting you back.

A few years back in Tassie a cop was killed by a sawn-off shotgun trap while searching a dope plantation. I'm guessing you can imagine what happened to the growers when they were caught.

[Alyeska]

Can anyone post the article? They have disallowed public view without registration.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Then put a nice "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be stabbed" sign in the middle of the ash heap. That should do the trick.

Problem is, dopegrowers are evil bastards, who aren't below getting you back.

*Clears Throught*
*Glowers at Mark*

MY MOTHER IS NOT EVIL!!!

[Raxmei]

Problem is, dopegrowers are evil bastards, who aren't below getting you back.

*Clears Throught*
*Glowers at Mark*

MY MOTHER IS NOT EVIL!!!

Yes, that could have used some qualifiers. I just mentally changed it to "the type of dopegrowers who pull this kind of shit". That change keeps the original meaning of the sentence while avoiding such a gross generalization.

[RedImperator]

It is pretty shitty to grow mary jane on someone else's land. If they get caught, they can pretty much say goodbye to everything they own thanks to asset forefiture laws. They can take your house, your car, your land, your back account, your retirement fund--hell, the cash in your wallet--away from you as soon as you're arrested by claiming it's all procedes from the drug trade, and it's up to YOU to prove it was acquired legitimately. And if you're acquitted? Well, prepare to spend years in court trying to get it all back--half the time, the property has been auctioned off and the cash spent by the government agencies that siezed it. Oh, and in most states, growing weed carries decade or more mandatory minimums, and since it's on your land, you're going to have a hell of a time convincing a jury it's not yours, especially if the prosecution finds a paid informant to rat you out.

Frankly, I'd rather have the body of my worst enemy turn up in a shallow grave on my property than for the police to find a patch of marijuana someone else planted. But hey--we all know drugs are bad, and we must use any means necessary to combat them.

[Joe]

I personally do not believe in laws against marijuana, however for these folks I would make an exception. I see no problem with bringing the full force of the law down on these cowards.

[MKSheppard]

Can anyone post the article? They have disallowed public view without registration.

Ah, I'll post some. The reason they did that was because during the
entire washington DC sniper thing, their server was getting overloaded
(they ARE an AR-15 related site), so they made it so only members
could get in to limit the strain

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I personally do not believe in laws against marijuana, however for these folks I would make an exception. I see no problem with bringing the full force of the law down on these cowards.

Well, isn't growing marijuana on someone else's property unlawful intrusion into their land as well? They should be jailed for that, and perhaps trying to frame the person they're growing it on.

As for dealing with them, would security cameras work?

[Joe]

I personally do not believe in laws against marijuana, however for these folks I would make an exception. I see no problem with bringing the full force of the law down on these cowards.

Well, isn't growing marijuana on someone else's property unlawful intrusion into their land as well? They should be jailed for that, and perhaps trying to frame the person they're growing it on.

As for dealing with them, would security cameras work?

Of course they should be punished for intrusion. I'm just saying that I wouldn't feel any guilt about using the marijuana laws which ought to be repealed to bring down enormous punishment on these assholes. Not only did they lawfully intrude, but they seriously endangered the financial and legal well-being of the owners of the farm.

[MKSheppard]

Original post:

My parents brought to my attention that on their 48 plus acre farm in Tennessee, some local people are growing pot. I went out in the woods (very overgrown with saw briers) and saw some knee-high chicken wire enclosures a litte way off a logging road. Recently, my mother noticed some ATV's around 2 am or so in that general area. She talked to the Sheriff and their helo with FLIR won't be up in the air until around August, so the cops won't deal with these guys until then and only if they find them from the air. Just curious to get your guys' input for ways of ridding family property of undesireables and their illegal trade. I could wait for them one night and detain them for the cops, but I don't know the legalities of such an "ambush". There is the option of killing any plants that sprout and just letting it go. What do you folks think?

Some replies:

Don't do it yet! Wait til those plants are almost ready for harvest. Those fools will be working for all those months, watering, fertilizing, and checking on their plants only to arrive on that anticipated day of harvesting to find their babies gone. That will really get them. You will know the plants are coming close to being harvested when they fill in and become thick with "buds". This means that they no longer look like weeds but have "colas", or long, heavy branches that you can't wrap your hand around.

Good luck.

BE CAREFUL!

Normally I'd say leave the dope growers alone, but this is on your parents' farm, so it has to be dealt with.

Your parents are iin severe jeoprady. According to the law, if they find dope growing on their property, the state may SEIZE your parents' land!

You are in a way lucky the law isn't trying to bust you.

But be careful, because dope growers often booby trap the land around their plots with deadly or disfiguring traps.

I would recommend killing the dope before the law gets involved, because there's a good chance under search and seizure laws your parents will be found guilty of growing dope on their land.

The land can be confiscated if they find the pot. Wether or not it is yours.

I would suggest getting a working party out there and clearing that pot outta there. Have an LEO with you when you do it. So that you have proof that you are there destroying it and not harvesting it. That is all you need is for a group of you up-rooting the stuff and Johnny Law comes by to see it.

Next I would ask a few friends to see if they can help you patrol that area at night. Be armed, as I am sure these growers will be.

Keep the local sheriff know of every step you take and document it.

Get a lawyer too. Just because you told the sheriff that will not clear things with the DEA and the Federal Attorney if they get wind of this. Perhaps having your attorney send a letter explaining this to the local DEA ahead of time? Not being a lawyer myself I cant say for sure but I think that may work.

Well let's see.. You have informed the local LEOs that there is illegal activity going on on your property which now places the property in jeopardy under federal and possible state seizure laws (I don't know TN laws) because it is drug/drug related. Furthermore you have taken no active steps to halt this activity which imperils the property owners criminally both federally and state-wise. This is a very real and very big problem, because you have now invited trouble. The LEO may be waiting for a return of a true bill before moving out to seize the land and imprision your family FLIR or no FLIR. The FLIR excuse may simply be a ruse designed to buy time for the true bill and to allow the dope to mature so that the drug seizure becomes large enough in weight and estimated street value to be newsworthy, but hey, I am paranoid when it comes to that sort of thing.

Actively defeating the growers may be a problem. You stand a real chance of getting hit with retribution. They may vandalize your property or burn down your house. One way to keep that from happening is to get a local reporter to come down with a camera and to get a deputy to come out on a detail. Explain the situation to the deputy and get his supervisor's approval because the local SO is so overworked, and have him come out and stand around for photos while you hack down the crop with a balaclava on. The deputy will appreciate the money and the press, the reporter will appreciate the good story, and it will look like a SO-only operation reducing the chances of payback against you.

Another way to do it is to strip the plants bare leaving only stalks. This will make it look like highschool kids stole the buds and leaves. An adult would just chop it down. This will also reduce the chance of payback.

Things to watch for are shotgun shell mousetraps, caltrops, eye-level fish hooks, and punji pits. In short, keep the women and kids away.

Finally, there is the all night stakeout. If you catch them and videotape them tending their plants, you can arrest them and turn them over to the SO. This is extremely dangerous, and I would not recommend it. If you do it, bring a friend who has his shit wired tight.

DO NOT do as some have suggested and put out man traps. You will end up in some serious doo doo if you go that route.

Just my .02. Where are you in TN. I recently moved back to north GA. If you want a volunteer I might be available.

Be very careful. Those folks take their business "deathly" serious. Don't go to the property alone or unarmed.

You also might want to call the state police or DEA yourself. If the crop will mature and be harvested in June, it seems too convenient that the FLIR won't be available until August.

It would not be the first time a local sheriff has been in on the game. And that also makes your personal safety a bigger concern.

The guy who originally posted goes:

I really appreciate the ideas guys. I live in Athens, GA, so I only get up there on occasion. They are up in Crossville, TN. This is a very minor operation of maybe a handful of plants. I have been on the look out for any booby traps of any kind. The Sheriff said the previous owner's son got busted growing pot out in the same area. This land is so far out in the country it takes 30 minutes minimum to get police out there. Getting into an all-out armed exchange would not be desireable but knowing the area would go un noticed.

Marijuna plants grown outdoor in the USA would not be ready for harvest in June. More like September through October depending on whether the pot is of the indica or sativa variety. You see, the female plants don't start budding until they start getting less than 12 hours of light a day, and then take 2-3 months to grow and ripen their buds. Fall is harvest time for pot, not the middle of summer.

And you are so knowledgeable because....

Ya see, when I was younger, I did not want to support terrorists by buying pot from mexicans, so in the interest of national security I decided to grow it instead. I was always a patriot, even before the patriot act. LOL

The guy who originally posted goes:

Due to my not being in the area, I only visit on occasion. When I do get there, the back 40 are all grown up with saw briers and underbrush. When I did go tromping back through there I came upon a handful of little growing places. I didn't look very much more. I know there have to be more, its all a matter of finding them, and with multiple acres covered in skin-shredding briers, my motivation for further exploration was minimal. I was willing to look the other way for a couple of plants. Then, my mother told me about the ATV action at night. To me that says that people (possibly armed) are venturing on my land in the middle of the night when my mother and young sister are in the house alone (albeit very heavily armed) and that dog just don't hunt with me.

Okie Dokie, my family had the same problem. Use to have quad runners on their property which they didn't mind but when it became cultivated pot, whoops! They minded.

Your local hippies will typically not cultivate for cultivation adds time if you are caught. If they are cultivating it's for the bucks which means these people are most likely dangerous and will seek revenge. Don't take action on your own. The first person they always suspect is the land owner.

My family contacted their lawyer who contacted the authorities all legal like. They came in at harvest time with helicopters and everything. It was a hoot. They rounded up the bad guys and the stash and as far as anyone knows my family didn't have a thing to do with it. Guess what, no illegal farmers since then.

Thing the lawyer said was if you get caught cutting the plants down, you are guilty and your land can be taken.

Stay away, if you dont' know your local sherriff contact a lawyer so theres no confusion.

Don't leave it be...

As numerous others have pointed out, this opens the land to siezure.

Don't try to deal with it on your own...

No matter how studly you think you are, this is a potentially very dangerous situation. You have no idea what you your real threat level is, and going after it without help (or even inexpert help) could cost you and your family, their lives.

If local LE has blown you off (and that just doesn't sound right), then go to state level LE. Loudly and repeatedly. I know, as an investigator- type dude, that if you came into my office and said that somebody was growing dope on your property and you wanted help, before you left I'd be camo'ed up and have a couple dozen guys with MGs, NODs and all kinds of other fun stuff ready to roll. If state level LE blows you off, go to the DEA. Be insistent that you want the dopers and their crop gone now. This would be a great day at the office for me. You WILL get a similar response if you talk to the right folks.

All the evidence points to small time local young guys, but I will approach it like I am dealing with pros. I will see about borrowing some night vision, but failing that, I will simply set tire deflating devices for the ATV's and size up these people from a distance at night, and if it is worth it, call the cops while I detain them.

That aside, would anyone be interested in a weekend shoot up in Crossville, TN at the end of June?

The number one cash crop in TN and KY is pot. Your local and state guys are most likely not going out of their way to handle this small a qty, not here anyway, or they might. Believe it or not, the tasks forces on this issue in TN are pretty busy this time of year and even more in the fall.

By contacting a lawyer, it is on record you did your part and don't have to worry about it. If they want to let the local hippie harvest they will or they will come take care of it. Eitherway your family is not at risk. Local LEO and even state records can be a bit hard to track down months later and that would be after you have legal difficulties. This way, though it will cost you $100, is alot easier and you can sleep better at night.

I talked to a local state police officer at work wrt another drug issue, and I also asked him what to do if I found pot, not that I know what it looks like so I could identify it, growing on my land. He said under no circumstances should I notify the police. Whether or not it's mine, I'm still responsible since it's my land. He said they would start proceedings to take my land if I notified them. He gave several examples of elderly (my age) people losing land and/or their homes in this state. He said instead I should poison the plants in a way that isn't obvious. If I thought the growers didn't check it often, he said placing tarps (assuming there isn't that many plants) over the plants for a few days will kill them and after they're removed, be undetectable to the growers. He strongly suggested not pulling-up or cutting-down the plants, because several times he's seen even small-time growers take revenge on the land owner.z

1. The local sheriff's office may or may not be in on it. The safe thing to do is assume that they are. Notify the DEA or state drug enforcement. Make SURE this is on record as you dont want the property confiscated.
2. Bush hog a perimeter trail around the property, and begin closing in with each pass. Bush hog a perimeter around the pot plants.
3. Round-up or even diesel fuel will kill the plants in short order. Caltrops for the ATVs is another idea.
4. What about security in the meantime? If the property is so remote, think about what a Molotov against the back and front doors of the house would do. A one or two man reaction force in the barn or outbuildings on night alert would be a very smart thing to do if you are serious.
5. The longer the stuff is there, the greater the chance someone will in fact discover it. Even if the local high school kids take the 'crop' your family will be blamed. Take action NOW, not in June.

I would bushhog a perimeter, and several firebreaks thru the center of the property, and then burn off the entire property. Maybe even the local volunteer fire company will do it as a chance to practice fighting brush fires. This would CYA a little since the FD is doing the burning.
From this point on bush hog the brush down evey fall. I am available if you need manpower and a 4x4 truck and ATV. Ops

I like this idea. Get the FD to burn it down. Plausible deniability is a wonderful thing.

As troubling as it may be, don't involve the cops. As others have mentioned, they can seize the land whether the owners are innocent or not. And, there will be absolutely nothing to stop them from seizing the land. If they decide to take it, your parents will then have to go to court to fight it and their innocence will be of no consequence. The only question will be whether the property is "guilty", and property has no presumption of innocence under the law. However it comes out, your parents are likely to be big losers.

If I were you, I would rent a bulldozer for the weekend and drive around out there for a while clearing brush. Make it look like you don't really know about the plants, but are planning some new construction in that area. They won't want to hang around a busy area where people are planning to build.

First and foremost, you should remember that the cops are not necessarily your friends when this sort of thing happens. Lots of police departments will look at land like that and immediately think of all the good toys they could buy if they had that land -- and, of course, they can take it any time they want. Just FYI, there are lots of police departments around the nation that are literally dependent upon drug- related seizures for items of basic budget. That is, if they don't make enough "drug-related" seizures then cops will lose their jobs. That's quite an incentive to take the property, whether the owners are innocent or not. Also FYI, statistics consistently show that about eighty percent of the property seized under drug forfeiture is taken from people who are never even charged with a crime.

[EmperorMing]

This is some fucked up shit.

Growing weed on someone elses land...

[The Yosemite Bear]

I a paradoxical sort of joke, my mom perfered to grow her's on GOVERNMENT OWNED land, perferably National Forests. Damn who are the DEA gonna go after the department of the Interior?

[Glocksman]

What's fucked up about it are the insane asset forfeiture laws that permit the seizure of property for what amounts to a misdemeanor offense in a lot of cases, and the worst part is that you don't even have to be convicted of the crime to lose your property.

Indeed, you don't even have to be aware that the crime is taking place to lose your land.

The War on Drugs is responsible for the loss of more rights than the War on Terrorism.