CLANCY

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-05-10 07:24am

PeZook wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
PeZook wrote:
And how does the mighty Polish military beat France? Forgive my curiosity, please
Ahh, well it helps when the heroic Americans just happen to have got some millitary hardware into Poland just in the nick of time. While the Poles gallantly fight of the evil Hunnic hordes the US and British save the day just in time by landing a couple of divisions that just tilt the balance in the good guys favour, yadda yadda yadda.
Bah *puke*

Forget what i was saying about reading this book. I'll just buy another Clancy

Well Clancy aint much better these days, I think. After Sum of All Fears he seems to have gone to shite.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-10 08:14am

weemadando wrote:
*gets shot*

*Into the sun*

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2003-05-10 09:34am

Any comments on 'Red Rabbit'? it's a major step back timeline-wise, which I think is a good thing. IMHO Clancy never really managed the scope that came with Ryan being president...

Personally, I liked 'Cauldron', if only because the Bad Guys for once were neither the chinese nor the russians...

And I positively refuse to believe that people think Dale Brown to be in the same league as the likes of Clancy or Bond.At least those two manage to get their technology straight...

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-05-10 10:47am

Well, I liked Cauldron by Bond. Sure the good guys win, sure a fight between the US/UK/Poland vs FRA/GER is unlikely but it was still much better than Clancy's latest. Although Cauldron is from the early/mid 90's IIRC.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-05-10 10:54am

Clancy's plots just get more inane and the enemies just get dumber and dumber with time. Even Red Storm Rising, his best, suffered from massive implausibility syndrome.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-05-10 11:59am

Batman wrote:Any comments on 'Red Rabbit'? it's a major step back timeline-wise, which I think is a good thing. IMHO Clancy never really managed the scope that came with Ryan being president...

Personally, I liked 'Cauldron', if only because the Bad Guys for once were neither the chinese nor the russians...

And I positively refuse to believe that people think Dale Brown to be in the same league as the likes of Clancy or Bond.At least those two manage to get their technology straight...

I rather liked Red Rabbit myself. That is why I said time line wise Clancy started slipping after Sum of All Fears. "Debt of Honor", "Executive Orders", and "The Bear and the Dragon" all had problems. The main reason why Rainbow 6 was a good book is because Clancy stepped away from the higher ranking main characters and brought back some characters we got to know in "Clear & Present Danger" as well as "Without Remorse". Heck, "Without Remorse" was written after "Sum of all Fears" and is still a good book. That is why I say chronologicaly Clancy starts slipping after "Sum of all Fears". Any of the books he goes back in time to write (Patriot Games, Without Remorse, The Red Rabbit), those books came out quite well. What that tells me is that Clancy did a better job having Ryan has an important figure rather then a very high ranking one. When Ryan became the NSA, things went downhill. That is why I rather like the old stuff with Judge Moore, Bob Ritter, and James Greer.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2003-05-10 12:01pm

yeah that was good

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-10 12:02pm

Alyeska wrote:The main reason why Rainbow 6 was a good book is because Clancy stepped away from the higher ranking main characters and brought back some characters we got to know in "Clear & Present Danger" as well as "Without Remorse".

Course, that was only because of his ongoing devoice.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-05-10 12:04pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Alyeska wrote:The main reason why Rainbow 6 was a good book is because Clancy stepped away from the higher ranking main characters and brought back some characters we got to know in "Clear & Present Danger" as well as "Without Remorse".
Course, that was only because of his ongoing devoice.

From what I heard, she won the rights to the Jack Ryan series. Because of this "Red Rabbit" might ver well be his last in the series. I think thats to bad. I would have liked to see another book centering on Clark and Chavez. Then again, if Clancy was clever he might be able to get "Without Remorse" and "Rainbow 6" removed from the series because they concentrate on different characters.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-10 12:14pm

Alyeska wrote:
From what I heard, she won the rights to the Jack Ryan series. Because of this "Red Rabbit" might ver well be his last in the series. I think thats to bad. I would have liked to see another book centering on Clark and Chavez. Then again, if Clancy was clever he might be able to get "Without Remorse" and "Rainbow 6" removed from the series because they concentrate on different characters.

I don't know what the exact outcome was. But I don't mind the Ryan series dieing. Every major enemy has been taken down or is now an ally, he's done terrorism in all its worst forms, cloak and dagger stuff has been done and now lacks anyone to do it against. Rainbow six is likely not considered part of the Jack Ryan series, since it was written specifically not to be and never mentions Ryan by name.

However even Rainbow six is a bit lacking in enemeys. After saving six billion people its hard to do better.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-10 01:16pm

Alyeska wrote:From what I heard, she won the rights to the Jack Ryan series. Because of this "Red Rabbit" might ver well be his last in the series. I think thats to bad. I would have liked to see another book centering on Clark and Chavez. Then again, if Clancy was clever he might be able to get "Without Remorse" and "Rainbow 6" removed from the series because they concentrate on different characters.

IIRC, she won a significant fraction of the proceeds from any book with the phrase "Jack Ryan" in it for a certain period of time.

StimNeuro · Post by **StimNeuro** » 2003-05-10 06:26pm

phongn wrote:
Alyeska wrote:From what I heard, she won the rights to the Jack Ryan series. Because of this "Red Rabbit" might ver well be his last in the series. I think thats to bad. I would have liked to see another book centering on Clark and Chavez. Then again, if Clancy was clever he might be able to get "Without Remorse" and "Rainbow 6" removed from the series because they concentrate on different characters.
IIRC, she won a significant fraction of the proceeds from any book with the phrase "Jack Ryan" in it for a certain period of time.

How di she manage that?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-05-10 08:25pm

phongn wrote:
Alyeska wrote:From what I heard, she won the rights to the Jack Ryan series. Because of this "Red Rabbit" might ver well be his last in the series. I think thats to bad. I would have liked to see another book centering on Clark and Chavez. Then again, if Clancy was clever he might be able to get "Without Remorse" and "Rainbow 6" removed from the series because they concentrate on different characters.
IIRC, she won a significant fraction of the proceeds from any book with the phrase "Jack Ryan" in it for a certain period of time.

In that case both "Without Remorse" and "Rainbow 6" are in the clear. They never use that phrase even though they are clearly part of the series.

Ok, here is an idea. Rainbow 6 might be pushing it, but how about a book about Clark and his adventures in the USSR?

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2003-05-10 08:52pm

Part of Clancy's problem is that he really does put too much detail into establishing his plot lines, and establishing the events that the characters are forced to react to. He comes up with some pretty elaborate plots where he almost has to use whacked out plot twists and devices to get his characters to triumph in the face of adversity within the span of a single volume book. Otherwise, he'd have to write duologies and trilogies to conclude his stories.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-05-10 10:22pm

irishmick79 wrote:Part of Clancy's problem is that he really does put too much detail into establishing his plot lines, and establishing the events that the characters are forced to react to. He comes up with some pretty elaborate plots where he almost has to use whacked out plot twists and devices to get his characters to triumph in the face of adversity within the span of a single volume book. Otherwise, he'd have to write duologies and trilogies to conclude his stories.

And that would be why his earlier books were better. They got into the action quicker and concluded faster. Still, I think books like Rainbow 6 and Clear and Present Danger worked out well even with being long. Then again, he shortened up Red Rabbit. I think Clancy is learning a bit and realized The Bear and the Dragon had serious flaws.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-05-10 11:12pm

At the end of The Bear and the Dragon, Clancy talked about the 20mm gun on an Apache. That pissed me off.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2003-05-10 11:13pm

Howedar wrote:At the end of The Bear and the Dragon, Clancy talked about the 20mm gun on an Apache. That pissed me off.

i don't remeber that can you get me a quote

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-05-10 11:17pm

Howedar wrote:At the end of The Bear and the Dragon, Clancy talked about the 20mm gun on an Apache. That pissed me off.

He also had some guy saying that the T-80U was the best the Russians had, and that it was a match for an M60A3. Dumbass. Never mind the superior main gun, advanced fire control, and ability to shrug off 120mm hits, let alone puny 105mm hits.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2003-05-10 11:20pm

Vympel wrote:
Howedar wrote:At the end of The Bear and the Dragon, Clancy talked about the 20mm gun on an Apache. That pissed me off.
He also had some guy saying that the T-80U was the best the Russians had, and that it was a match for an M60A3. Dumbass. Never mind the superior main gun, advanced fire control, and ability to shrug off 120mm hits, let alone puny 105mm hits.

well maybe from a russian pov...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-10 11:20pm

Vympel wrote:
He also had some guy saying that the T-80U was the best the Russians had, and that it was a match for an M60A3. Dumbass. Never mind the superior main gun, advanced fire control, and ability to shrug off 120mm hits, let alone puny 105mm hits.

Stupid. However the Russia of Clancy/Ryan has significant differences compared to the real thing which could effect military equipment. Though the changes should lead to better conventional gear, not worse.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-05-10 11:27pm

Anget Fisher wrote:
Howedar wrote:At the end of The Bear and the Dragon, Clancy talked about the 20mm gun on an Apache. That pissed me off.
i don't remeber that can you get me a quote

I'd rather not, but its when an Apache fires on one of the launching Chinese ICBMs.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-10 11:31pm

StimNeuro wrote:
phongn wrote:IIRC, she won a significant fraction of the proceeds from any book with the phrase "Jack Ryan" in it for a certain period of time.
How di she manage that?

In a divorce, stuff tends to get split 50%...and I guess Jack Ryan was part of it.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-11 12:58am

phongn wrote:
In a divorce, stuff tends to get split 50%...and I guess Jack Ryan was part of it.

It was because the character was created during the course of the marriage.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-05-11 04:49am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
phongn wrote:
In a divorce, stuff tends to get split 50%...and I guess Jack Ryan was part of it.
It was because the character was created during the course of the marriage.

Three letters: WTF?