NapoleonGH wrote:Not everyone who is a non-believer "rejects god" there are a perfectly large number of people who never even heard of christianity, if not today, then go back to 1492, all of north america and 99% of south america had never had any contact with a christian, so how pretell are they REJECTING god and sending themselves to hell, is Ignorance as to the existance of your god now an offence punishable by perminant damnation. This is true for parts of africa and asia and australia for a large portion of the history of christianity.
Yep. That's it. The thread delivers what it says. Scary fundy quotes all right, and pretty stupid ones at that.
"It appears that our minds will never meet on this subject."
"If someone asks you why you're oppressing a world and you reply with a lot of poetic crap, no." - Lord of Light, Roger Zelazny
See you are missing the point, GOD DOESNT DECREE MORALITY, morality doesnt come from God, it comes from people. I am holding YOUR god, to objective morality, that anything that causes unnecessary harm to anything is Imorral, thus your god is immoral.
If I were to base morality on your god, then as I already stated, God is Omnibenevolent, thus all his actions and everything he condones is good and moral; thus murder, rape, slavery, mysoginism, bigotry, and descrimination are good and moral things. To comitt these acts is only to follow god's example.
EvilGrey wrote:Rather than responding to each of you trolls individually, I would like each of you to try and refute my claim:
God is not bound by the moral edicts He decrees.
Until you refute it, you cannot claim God is evil, insane, mad, angry, wrathful, inconsiderate, heartless, etc.
Not one of you has yet managed to refute it.
Idiot child. We don't care what morals he decrees. We care about objective, universal morality. What he says doesn't matter, no more than what visions about me matter. And are you going to reply to the tangent you purposely engaged me on, or are you conceeding(And no, there is no third choice).
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
NapoleonGH wrote:Not everyone who is a non-believer "rejects god" there are a perfectly large number of people who never even heard of christianity, if not today, then go back to 1492, all of north america and 99% of south america had never had any contact with a christian, so how pretell are they REJECTING god and sending themselves to hell, is Ignorance as to the existance of your god now an offence punishable by perminant damnation. This is true for parts of africa and asia and australia for a large portion of the history of christianity.
Read Romans.
ohh is that where the bible claims that everyone is born knowing the truth about god and jesus and the like and thus they are evil for not believing in it? If that is the case then why bother writing a bible if we all already know it anyway? More importantly then why didnt the native americans or aborigines create a christian church BEFORE the european missionaries came?
Those who send themselves to Hell are hardly innocent. They rejected God. Even the Taoists say rejecting Tao (God) will earn you the same fate. Why not deride Taoism while you're at it?
Red herring. We're talking about Christianity here.
Furthermore, most theistic beliefs say the same thing; believe in this particular God and you won't go to hell. They also have the same basis as your belief, essentially. What makes you think that yours alone is correct?
Did you forget about the NT and its profoundly uplifting spiritual teachings?
Much of the genuinely good stuff that can be found in the NT is not exactly unique to Christianity. The Golden Rule, for example, can be found in different forms among different cultures.
You are angry God didn't make you a mindless drone devoid of free will and incapable of sinning?
If God did indeed make the world (assume for the sake of the argument that he didn't, even though he didn't), then yeah, I'm angry at him for making this world such a shitty place to live in and refusing to do anything about it.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Answer this question, sir. From what source do you derive your beliefs? And how do you rationalize them, from this point?
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
SirNitram wrote:Idiot child. We don't care what morals he decrees. We care about objective, universal morality. What he says doesn't matter, no more than what visions about me matter. And are you going to reply to the tangent you purposely engaged me on, or are you conceeding(And no, there is no third choice).
Moral objectivism cannot exist without a God. Try again.
Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:What the hell happened here?
Well, several years ago, a dumbass was born, and today he came to invade SD.net.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
NapoleonGH wrote:Not everyone who is a non-believer "rejects god" there are a perfectly large number of people who never even heard of christianity, if not today, then go back to 1492, all of north america and 99% of south america had never had any contact with a christian, so how pretell are they REJECTING god and sending themselves to hell, is Ignorance as to the existance of your god now an offence punishable by perminant damnation. This is true for parts of africa and asia and australia for a large portion of the history of christianity.
Read Romans.
ohh is that where the bible claims that everyone is born knowing the truth about god and jesus and the like and thus they are evil for not believing in it? If that is the case then why bother writing a bible if we all already know it anyway? More importantly then why didnt the native americans or aborigines create a christian church BEFORE the european missionaries came?
That's not what it says. This time actually READ it.
Evil, we also DONT necessarily have freewill anyway. Have you looked into the determinist concept that all of our actions are determined by our past experience and genetics? This means that our actions APPEAR to be based on free choice now, but if we had enough information about the past experiences and the genetic pre-dispositions of a person we could predict their actions with perfect accuracy.
SirNitram wrote:Idiot child. We don't care what morals he decrees. We care about objective, universal morality. What he says doesn't matter, no more than what visions about me matter. And are you going to reply to the tangent you purposely engaged me on, or are you conceeding(And no, there is no third choice).
Moral objectivism cannot exist without a God. Try again.
Oh yes it can.
To harm someone is to commit evil.
To help someone is to commit good.
There. Moral objectivism, easily obtained without divinity, using only common sense and a spoon.
Unless, of course, you are claiming I'm a God.
*hands Thirdfain the spoon for appropriate enshrinement*
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
NapoleonGH wrote:See you are missing the point, GOD DOESNT DECREE MORALITY, morality doesnt come from God, it comes from people. I am holding YOUR god, to objective morality, that anything that causes unnecessary harm to anything is Imorral, thus your god is immoral.
You are not God, you cannot define the nature of morality. Try again.
EvilGrey wrote:[
That's not what it says. This time actually READ it.
I was asking, btw i dont happen to own a copy of your holy book, so by all means give us a little summary of your point here, and how this applies to people who are ignorant as to the existance of your god.
NapoleonGH wrote:See you are missing the point, GOD DOESNT DECREE MORALITY, morality doesnt come from God, it comes from people. I am holding YOUR god, to objective morality, that anything that causes unnecessary harm to anything is Imorral, thus your god is immoral.
You are not God, you cannot define the nature of morality. Try again.
who says I cant? you? well screw that. Im just as good at defining morality as those old farts who CLAIM to have devine inspiration who wrote your book, remember your book was writen by a bunch of people too, they created your morality.
Morality is a universal, it doesnt come from god, and i challenge you to prove that morality must come from god, WITHOUT using the bible saying "i define morality" or somesuch as an argument
What makes your old farts writing their book any better authorities on morality than the chinese old farts writing theirs? or the islamic ones? or me?
NapoleonGH wrote:See you are missing the point, GOD DOESNT DECREE MORALITY, morality doesnt come from God, it comes from people. I am holding YOUR god, to objective morality, that anything that causes unnecessary harm to anything is Imorral, thus your god is immoral.
You are not God, you cannot define the nature of morality. Try again.
You base the moral code on the rights of humans, i.e. what is objectively good for humanity. Some moral truths appear to be self-evident and can be found in various incarnations in the philosophy of many different cultures.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Is a mod going to take this guy and give him his title and the HOSing he so rightly deserves?
Assuming there is a God, he is bound to the morality he decrees. Any ethical/virtuous/moral ruler follows the rules he makes. Oh, wait, that's right! Since God is supposedly above the morality he decrees so he isn't bound by it at all. Gosh, that sounds exactly like Mustapha Mond, "I make the rules here, I can break them. With impunity . . . " What a role model.
150th post made June 9, 2003
Member of the Anti-PETA Anti-Fascist League
Debater classification: Lurker
Oh, yeah, and allow me to bring back this argument you conveniently ignored:
Quote:
How do you know that? The argument for the Black Mage's divinity is essentially the same as your argument for God, so why is one more true than the other?
On that note I should point out that the arguments for the divinity of Allah, Yaweh, Shiva, Buddha, Ameratsu, Odin and fuckin' Zeus are all the same as your argument for God. How come your particular set of triable myths is true, while the other ancient, unproven, irrational tribal myths are wrong?
Answer my question. I posted it about 2 pages ago, and you neglected to respond.
How come your particular set of tribal myths is true, while the other ancient, unproven, irrational tribal myths are wrong?
Answer it, or admit that your mythological creature is fallible.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
