A Bar Brawl: Klingons vs. Centauri

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-05-11 09:40pm

Yup, in some bar on some god-forsaken planet, two groups meet. One group consists of Centauri, and the other of Klingons. Both groups are equal in size. Neither side has any weapons, but they are free to use chairs, beer bottles, and anything else they can get their hands on.

Which group wins?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-12 12:12am

I believe the wildly unpopular Klingons would win. They're perty vicious. The Centauri may have a mean streak and two hearts, but I doubt it would carry them here.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-05-12 09:06am

The Klingons growls,the Centauris kicked them in the jaws,Klingons goes down hard.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-05-12 10:11am

despite taking early losses due to standing around and howling the Kilingons turn it around and beat the Centauri senseless. It simply because the Klingons are borderline savages whereas the Centauri, although fierce have demonstrated time and time again that:

1- they don't like a fair fight. how many times have they invaded the inferior Narn?
2-They'd rather have others do the fighting for them (Mordon, the shadows)
3-They're decadant drunks

this isn't to say that if all other things were equal the Centauri wouldn't kick the shit oiu of the Klingons in a war. I think they would. Cunning and deception are the strengths of the Centauri....They would win in a battle of wits, but not one of brawn.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-05-12 10:24am

Col. Crackpot wrote:despite taking early losses due to standing around and howling the Kilingons turn it around and beat the Centauri senseless. It simply because the Klingons are borderline savages whereas the Centauri, although fierce have demonstrated time and time again that:
________________________________________________________________________
I said it in a previous thread if a pregnant Kira can kick the ass of several klingons anyone can.
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1- they don't like a fair fight. how many times have they invaded the inferior Narn?
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2-They'd rather have others do the fighting for them (Morden, the shadows)
________________________________________________________________________
Only Londo,Emperor Cartagia and Lord Refa knew about the Shadows.
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3-They're decadant drunks
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So are the Klingons
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this isn't to say that if all other things were equal the Centauri wouldn't kick the shit oiu of the Klingons in a war. I think they would. Cunning and deception are the strengths of the Centauri....They would win in a battle of wits, but not one of brawn.

CNS Sarajevo · Post by **CNS Sarajevo** » 2003-05-12 03:58pm

Centauri held their own or did better against Narns in most riot scenes on B5. I think Klingons are tougher than Narns, so I think it's a draw.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-05-12 05:02pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:despite taking early losses due to standing around and howling the Kilingons turn it around and beat the Centauri senseless. It simply because the Klingons are borderline savages whereas the Centauri, although fierce have demonstrated time and time again that:

1- they don't like a fair fight. how many times have they invaded the inferior Narn?
2-They'd rather have others do the fighting for them (Mordon, the shadows)
3-They're decadant drunks

this isn't to say that if all other things were equal the Centauri wouldn't kick the shit oiu of the Klingons in a war. I think they would. Cunning and deception are the strengths of the Centauri....They would win in a battle of wits, but not one of brawn.

Well, the Centuari managed to beat the shit out of the Narn in every riot scene in B5. Even Narn military, which should have been trained in H2H fighting. Basically, in most of those scenes, the Narn rush towards the Centauri, and get knoked out by a high kick.

Note, the Narns are actually tougher than the Klingons. G'Kar broke those chains in the episode when Londo and Vir assasinated Cartagia (the chains were not weakened). Also, in the Coming of Shadows (IIRC), G'Kar broke that stone table of his in two. Not to mention that he beat the shit out of a security squad later in that episode. I haven't seen ther Klingons do anything even remotely resembling that.

I think the Centauri take this.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-05-12 05:19pm

I think the Centauri would win, they do well against Narn in hand to hand.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-05-12 05:42pm

fgalkin wrote:Well, the Centuari managed to beat the shit out of the Narn in every riot scene in B5. Even Narn military, which should have been trained in H2H fighting. Basically, in most of those scenes, the Narn rush towards the Centauri, and get knoked out by a high kick.

The prevailing Narn fighting technique seems to be "rush in, take the first shot, and then punish whoever hit you". We often see the Centauri get a good kick in, but the Narn usually isn't taken out.

The Narns apparently rely on their high durability to carry them through fights. They don't seem to be particulary quick or agile, but the people they knock down tend to stay down. G'Kar was still able to break his chains and throw Cartagia's guards around even after weeks of malnutrition and torture.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-05-12 06:37pm

PErsonally i reckon the centauri would win, i don't think it's been proven that klingons are significantly stronger than humans, just appear more barbaric.

The centauri meanwhile have shown some very cool martial arts skills, like jumping really high and doing roundhouse kicks for example, and manage to hold their own against cranky narns.

Plus im sure they'd have all sorts of concealed weaponry, and if worst came to worst, they could use their 6 male mebers to slap the klingons around till they vomit.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-05-12 06:50pm

I think that the Centauri would win. Even though Londo was a buffoon, the Centauri we've seen rioting against the Narn tend to hold their own pretty well. Narns beat the SHIT out of the humans on B5, to an extent that not even the Klingons can match in ST, and it's always seemed to me that the B5 security personnel are tougher than the red-shirts. Granted, most of the time the Narn are outnumbered in these scenes (or, at least, evenly matched), but the Centauri rarely wind up on the losing side of the fight.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-05-12 07:03pm

Rye wrote:PErsonally i reckon the centauri would win, i don't think it's been proven that klingons are significantly stronger than humans, just appear more barbaric.

Depends on the human.

I've heard that some really obnoxious fanboys claim superhuman strength for Klingons, which isn't true...Klingons don't have superhuman strength. Not even close.

But it is true that many Klingons have exhibited strength considerably in excess of the average adult human male; e.g., Worf lifting a grown man overhead single-handedly, Kruge lifting Kirk off the ground by the neck, Gowron and Martok's ability to grapple with Worf (which requires comparable strength), etc. Even B'Elanna Torres could outgrapple the Torik, and we're told numerous times that Vulcans are a couple or few times stronger than human men ("Take Me Out to the Holosuite," maybe "Amok Time"?).

As a bodybuilder, I'm especially keen on Kruge and Worf's feats. Worf didn't just "half-press" that guy off the ground; he grabbed him with a supinated grip, with only a slight bend in his elbow, THEN lifted him a meter off the floor. Then he casually threw the guy a couple of meters backwards.

There's no real corrolary for this in the iron game...the closest thing would be a palms-up, half dumbbell front lateral raise/overhead press I suppose.

Doing that with a fellow that probably weighed over 160 lbs. could be very difficult for very strong men to duplicate. If it was comparable to simply pressing a DB of similar weight from shoulder-level to "lockout," that'd translate to at least a 315 lbs. military press. (Just as a point of reference, most guys who can military over 275 can bench press in excess of 425 lbs.)

Some beginners I've trained struggled with 70-80 lbs., and they were healthy, athletic people with at least limited weight training experience. So Worf would be at least four times their strength--probably more if you consider that the same beginners would struggle to press 40-45 lbs. dumbbells overhead at first.

Worf could be exceptional...he's a fairly beefy Klingon. But we've seen plenty of other burlies, even if they do often have glass jaws (Martok's son Drex, lots of the boarding party guys in "WoTW").

Strong warriors may well be 3-4x stronger than average men, comparable to a fairly decent powerlifter or exceptionally strong natural bodybuilder. Like me

Centauri do not appear to be stronger than humans. That doesn't preclude the possibility of strong soldiers who train with resistance, however.

The centauri meanwhile have shown some very cool martial arts skills, like jumping really high and doing roundhouse kicks for example, and manage to hold their own against cranky narns.

Plus im sure they'd have all sorts of concealed weaponry, and if worst came to worst, they could use their 6 male mebers to slap the klingons around till they vomit.

Certainly possible. Klingons didn't overwhelm the E-nil's crew when they fought in "Trouble With Tribbles." Superior strength helps, but it's definitely not the only variable in whipping ass. When I stopped training people, I had a client, a slight little guy of about 48, probably 130 soaking wet, who could barely bench press his bodyweight for a few reps. I was about three times stronger than him in the upper body, yet I have no doubt he could've kicked my ass. It's not that he was exceptionally quick, either; he was simply cool under pressure and knew his discipline very well (jujitsu, IIRC).

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-05-12 07:08pm

Master of Ossus wrote:I think that the Centauri would win. Even though Londo was a buffoon, the Centauri we've seen rioting against the Narn tend to hold their own pretty well. Narns beat the SHIT out of the humans on B5, to an extent that not even the Klingons can match in ST, and it's always seemed to me that the B5 security personnel are tougher than the red-shirts. Granted, most of the time the Narn are outnumbered in these scenes (or, at least, evenly matched), but the Centauri rarely wind up on the losing side of the fight.

Well said.

Judging the Centauris' fighting prowess off of Londo, Vir, Cartagia, and Reefa is comparable to thinking all Klingons are like that General in Trek V or Chancellor K'mpek--big fat guys whose burp is worse than their bite

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-05-12 09:23pm

Vir's fiance, a trained assassin and eugenecist, overwhelmed a Narn on a blood oath to murder her. The Centauri have centuries of fighting techniques, melee weapons, beam and pulse rifles, and of course the odd broken bottle, and also these are a bunch of rowdy bar going drunk Centauri, not the nominal rich ones we see in B5. Though they all were rather old fashioned dress by modern earth standards, of course they symbolize Europe so it goes without saying.