what world you rather be in?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-05-12 08:20pm

SolidSnake wrote:
RedImperator wrote:Being a prole in 1984 wouldn't be too horrible, compared to some of the alternatives. But I'd be dead already as a Party member--dead, or a broken, defeated husk who loves Big Brother and is just waiting for the bullet.
I dunno. The proles seem to attract rocket bombs pretty good.

No worse than living in some third world countries. Farenheit 451 might be a better choice, actually, except for the fact almost everyone dies at the end.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-12 08:22pm

Captain Lennox wrote:1984, if a prole you could live a long time. But I'd rather serve in the army. Considering their is actually a real war.

lots of opportunity for sucess, there.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-12 08:24pm

RedImperator wrote:Being a prole in 1984 wouldn't be too horrible, compared to some of the alternatives. But I'd be dead already as a Party member--dead, or a broken, defeated husk who loves Big Brother and is just waiting for the bullet.

dunno whyd one have to be broken defeated. if Im trapped in a 1984 system, Id play the philisophy up for all its worth. worked in the ussr, could work here.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 08:30pm

Ironbeard wrote:
whether you are Inner Party, Outer Party or prole
Just a minor nitpick, but didn't the party largely ignore the proles because they were ground into submissive acceptance by their economic conditions?

Personally, I voted for Brave New World. I'm not much of a philosopher, so I probably wouldn't notice anything wrong if I was on the inside - and mindless happiness seems better than torture.

That's right, they did.. but basically if you weren't the Thought Police (and probably even if you were), you would get hammered for committing a thought crime. I'm not up-to-date on the book, though.. been a few years (damn, I really want to read it again).

But seriously ~ why wasn't Ayn Rand's Anthem in this?

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2003-05-12 09:19pm

RedImperator wrote:Farenheit 451 might be a better choice, actually, except for the fact almost everyone dies at the end.

That was only one city that was blown up at the end. We never saw any others. You would just have to be lucky that you were in the right city.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-12 09:24pm

dont forget the 2 nuke wars in 10 yrs in f451. . .

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-05-12 09:35pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:dunno whyd one have to be broken defeated. if Im trapped in a 1984 system, Id play the philisophy up for all its worth. worked in the ussr, could work here.

Because that's how it works when you defy Big Brother. First they weaken you, then they destroy you. Then they remake you and finally they kill you as you bathe in Big Brother's love, knowing that you love him totally. Killing you after reprogramming is the only way to ensure your total loyalty.

Ingsoc is not the same as USSR's communism. They are almost at total thought control. You cannot hide from them because they will eventually find out and destroy you, with no one being safe, not even the Inner Party. You can't "fake it" or "play it up" because they always find out eventually.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-12 09:37pm

I was referring to the post where one is broken acting all for big brother. I would expect some could follow him without being broken. why defy him at all?

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 09:41pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:I was referring to the post where one is broken acting all for big brother. I would expect some could follow him without being broken. why defy him at all?

They follow him out of fear... or did you not realize that...?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-12 09:43pm

o_O I am unsure an entire society can follow by fear. there's usually an inner line of people that follow in devotion - the s.s. or kgb or whoever.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 09:44pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:o_O I am unsure an entire society can follow by fear. there's usually an inner line of people that follow in devotion - the s.s. or kgb or whoever.

[points at Christians] You were saying...? Besides, who said the ENTIRE society wasn't people like that?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-12 09:45pm

most christians I know dont fear.

and, clarify the second statment plz.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 09:49pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:most christians I know dont fear.

The Christians are a god-fearing people. Try to think more along the lines of the fundies.

and, clarify the second statment plz.

wasn't = was

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-12 09:52pm

verilon wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:most christians I know dont fear.
The Christians are a god-fearing people. Try to think more along the lines of the fundies.

and, clarify the second statment plz.
wasn't = was

like I said. most of them dont quiver in fear, they cheerfully run about saying how you will burn forever.

ok. so Id be one of the ones who was the devoted.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 09:57pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:like I said. most of them dont quiver in fear, they cheerfully run about saying how you will burn forever.

BIBLE-THUMPERS, YOU MORON. I don't know if I can get any clearer than that. -__-;;

ok. so Id be one of the ones who was the devoted.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-05-12 10:00pm

Again, I'm starting to think that Talen only read the words in these books without actually understanding what they said or meant.

That, or he just watched the movies (although I like the one for 1984)...

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 10:03pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Again, I'm starting to think that Talen only read the words in these books without actually understanding what they said or meant.

That, or he just watched the movies (although I like the one for 1984)...

I begin to agree. And once again, Anthem brings up a lot of the same issues.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-12 10:29pm

verilon wrote:
2000AD wrote:Isn't Clockwork Orange just the real world?
God, no.. They don't implement those torture devices in real life..

OK, are you forgetting that he was the test case for the Ludeviko Technique and after he lost it they discontinued the program?

Also, if you read the book, you'll see that its an utterly different end to the movie. The violence et al was just a by product of youth, at the end of the book he is an older man, looking back on his younger years with a degree of distaste.

And it is the real world, look around you and tell me that you don't see these kinds of acts of violence around you, or at the very least on the news.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 10:31pm

weemadando wrote:
verilon wrote:
2000AD wrote:Isn't Clockwork Orange just the real world?
God, no.. They don't implement those torture devices in real life..
OK, are you forgetting that he was the test case for the Ludeviko Technique and after he lost it they discontinued the program?

Also, if you read the book, you'll see that its an utterly different end to the movie. The violence et al was just a by product of youth, at the end of the book he is an older man, looking back on his younger years with a degree of distaste.

And it is the real world, look around you and tell me that you don't see these kinds of acts of violence around you, or at the very least on the news.

Never did I say there wasn't the violence.. just not the torture device thing.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-12 10:33pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
That and they will die for it. Everyone who goes to Room 101 soon goes bacl to the Ministry to receive a bullet in the back of the head.

No, Room 101 inevitably breaks people, who are then reconditioned for release back into society.

Only the most amazingly superhumanly strong of mind would require being shot because they resisted in room 101.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 10:35pm

weemadando wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
That and they will die for it. Everyone who goes to Room 101 soon goes bacl to the Ministry to receive a bullet in the back of the head.
No, Room 101 inevitably breaks people, who are then reconditioned for release back into society.

Only the most amazingly superhumanly strong of mind would require being shot because they resisted in room 101.

That's what I had thought, but didn't know for sure..

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-12 11:00pm

verilon wrote: Never did I say there wasn't the violence.. just not the torture device thing.

Its not a torture device, it was an EXPERIMENTAL form of conditioning. It failed, the program was discontinued. It wasn't widespread in usage.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-12 11:02pm

weemadando wrote:
verilon wrote: Never did I say there wasn't the violence.. just not the torture device thing.
Its not a torture device, it was an EXPERIMENTAL form of conditioning. It failed, the program was discontinued. It wasn't widespread in usage.

True that, but it was planned on being used widespread..

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-05-12 11:04pm

Fahrenheit. I'd be more likely to survive... Just stay inside your house with mindless entertainment...

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-12 11:13pm

Yeah, of the options, Fahrenheit and Brave New World are the least painful, though no less malevolent than any of the others. If I had to pick out of all the dystopias fiction has creatd, I'd go with the one from Paranoia. Life would be like one big first person shooter!

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