Why do people think the Andromeda is so powerful?

[Antediluvian]

This isn't flame bait, I'm honestly curious.

It always seems like it can't take much damage, like when that Than fighter blasted it a few times and it was so heavily damaged it had to hide in an asteriod belt.

And that launching tons of missiles rapidly as has been described seems non-existent, and never used in situations that warrant it, like when they faced that fleet of Friends of Humanity ships.

And for that matter, their missiles look bigger than fist size.

A little help?

[Renewed_Valour1]

It always seems like it can't take much damage, like when that Than fighter blasted it a few times and it was so heavily damaged it had to hide in an asteroid belt.

She was only attacked by Than vessels once in "Dance of the Mayflies". It wasn't a fighter either; Than capital ships are upscaled versions of their patrol craft.

Some of the missiles you are seeing are smart missiles, which are many times larger than fist sized kinetic missiles. The fist sized missiles are the small streaks that you often see streaking away from her hull. The smart missiles are the large greenish missiles.

As for the rest welcome to the world of Andromeda. We have straight from the writers mouths that the visuals are only an interpretation of what is going on. Roughly speaking that makes the visuals very low in the canon for Andromeda with the dialogue being just about the highest form of canon.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

This isn't flame bait, I'm honestly curious.

It always seems like it can't take much damage, like when that Than fighter blasted it a few times and it was so heavily damaged it had to hide in an asteriod belt.

And that launching tons of missiles rapidly as has been described seems non-existent, and never used in situations that warrant it, like when they faced that fleet of Friends of Humanity ships.

And for that matter, their missiles look bigger than fist size.

A little help?

Andromeda really isn't all that powerful. About the only thing she has going for her is extreme acceleration (on the order of 60,000 Earth-gravities, if I remember right.)

[RayCav of ASVS]

People think Andromeda is powerful because of the Nova Bombs and the apparent ability to transverse distances into other universes, but that's it.

Although, theoretically, the Andromeda can "hyper" into the Coruscant system, and provided it isn't blasted, drop a Nova Bomb and scoot.

[Antediluvian]

(She was only attacked by Than vessels once in "Dance of the Mayflies". It wasn't a fighter either; Than capital ships are upscaled versions of their patrol craft.)

Okay, but it looked fighter size.

Still, that doesn't rebut the fact that she can't take much damage.

[Antediluvian]

(Andromeda really isn't all that powerful. About the only thing she has going for her is extreme acceleration (on the order of 60,000 Earth-gravities, if I remember right.)

If she isn't that powerful, why do some people think she has a good chance against an ISD? Is it because of acceleration, or what?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

(Andromeda really isn't all that powerful. About the only thing she has going for her is extreme acceleration (on the order of 60,000 Earth-gravities, if I remember right.)

If she isn't that powerful, why do some people think she has a good chance against an ISD? Is it because of acceleration, or what?

Probably because they overestimate Andromeda's weapons. Her kinetic missiles only deliver something like 20 MT each to their targets. And she had a limited supply of these. A single ISD-I seems to have 64 light turbolaser cannons of similar power, and they seem capable of shooting for hours. They can also hit fast moving, small objects. And an ISD-II has eight(?) heavy turbolasers, each with likely more than 200+ GT of damage. Though the Andromeda can probably run circles around an ISD, it only takes the ISD one or two lucky hits to kill her.

[septesix]

If she isn't that powerful, why do some people think she has a good chance against an ISD? Is it because of acceleration, or what?

Probably becuase the ISD won't have a chance of ever hitting Rommie, not that Rommie's weapon might be able to hurt the ISD either, with those new number from ICS.

[Mr Bean]

an ISD-II has eight(?) heavy turbolasers, each with likely more than 200+ GT of damage. Though the Andromeda can probably run circles around an ISD, it only takes the ISD one or two lucky hits to kill her

Check the Star Destroyer Thread, 50 Light LTL, 50 MTL, 50 HTL, 10 Tractors and 50 Ion Cannons

Remeber the ISD IS a space going fortress the Heavy TL, Lights and Mediums are present on all sides from the venteral and dorsal plus the aft and bow sections so depending on its orintation it can only bring 10-30 of each weapon at a time, on the plus side that means manvoring is not as much of a problem because if you race around to one side you simply shoot at them with ANOTHER set of weapons

Depending on scalling an ISD-II medium and heavy weapons are anywhere from Multi-gigaton to low teraton with the current *avarage of calcated figures being roughly 250 Giga-tons for Mediums and 5 Teratons for Heavys

Keep in mind that 200 GT weapon is on a TRANSPORT not a Ship of war

[Renewed_Valour1]

Probably because they overestimate Andromeda's weapons. Her kinetic missiles only deliver something like 20 MT each to their targets.

Which are her weakest weapons expect for the defensive missiles.

They can also hit fast moving, small objects.

Not at the ranges where a Glorious Heritage Cruiser fight at or the acceleration and maneuverability they have to use. .

[Renewed_Valour1]

Okay, but it looked fighter size.

Well they were capital ships. Most likely something in the cutter to frigate range.

Still, that doesn't rebut the fact that she can't take much damage.

The weapons she was hit by were AP cannons. If you followed the thread for weapons strengths for other Sci-fo series you'd note that the exact strength of these weapons is unknown. The only know is that a ship on continuous AP cannon fire will drain her supply in a few moments. In "Belly of the Beast" it was stated that the Maru's AP tanks contain enough AP to destroy a small planet. Of course this could range from a small planetoid to something the size of Earth since Earth sized planets have been called small on the series. The other fact is that the AP cannons are stated to be several times more powerful than you standard kinetic missile barrage. So a small fleet of capital ships mounting these weapons hit her.

[SirNitram]

Andromeda's only chance against an ISD is to peck at it like a fighter. And she better never, ever slow down nearby that flying city(Said flying city pulls something like 5000G's straightline accel, I should point out).

[omegaLancer]

What is forgot is that ISD turbo laser can be set to detonate like burst of flak, so even if the Andromeda maintain a evasive course, it could be bracketed by serie of explosions that would range from 20 gt to 1000's gt range. This would floored the area of space around the Anromeda with electomagnetic radiation that would damage the Fullerene hull and all exterioral equipment..

The Fullerene hull is design to resist massive KE attacks, and is capable of withstanding temperature in 1000's Centigrade, but would be no match against the energies release by Tubrolaser...

The Andromeda is also arm with a series of drone, that can strike with the force of several gigatons, but she carries less than a dozen of these..



The last series of ship the CW design before it fell, included Cold plasma armor to resist energy weapon, but only two of these ships where created..

But without force shield capable of withstanding the energies of SW ships the Common wealth is at a disadvantage...But she more than a match for the ST vessels...

[omegaLancer]

what i forgot to mention is that turbo laser also have a max range of about 2 light minutes.. and since CW ships weapon are also easily fooled by ECM, the range issues is not a critical factor...

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

ADVANTAGES:


1. Acceleration. Only place where .2 C is concidered slow.
2. Firepower. 20 gigaton missle salvoes as per ep with giant planet eater.

DISADVANTAGES

1. No FTL sensors. A ISD can sit a few light hours away and won't be noticed for a while.
2. Pure ammount of missles need. A missle salvo is like 1000.

[omegaLancer]

A missile salvo is around 340 missile.. That base on 8 missile per tube per second X 40 tubes...

And that means 340 X 20mt = 6400mt or 6 gigatons per salvo... not even one Light turbo laser...

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Err..LTLs are megaton range.

[omegaLancer]

Is the LTl in the MT range.. all the figures point to the miminum yield would be around 125 MT, but if you look at the Quad turbo lasers be 200GT the med being 20GT the light should be at least 2 GT if you use a scaling of a factor of 10... But it doesnot matter since what ever figur you use the Andromeda yield is less than a lightest warship in the SW universe...

[Mr Bean]

Lights are Six MT because they are Anti-Fighter Weaponry, 2MT is enough to seariously hurt them, 6MT is much worse

[Crossover_Maniac]

Probably because they overestimate Andromeda's weapons. Her kinetic missiles only deliver something like 20 MT each to their targets. And she had a limited supply of these. A single ISD-I seems to have 64 light turbolaser cannons of similar power, and they seem capable of shooting for hours.

And at a rate of fire of one shot every two seconds vs. the GHC eight shots per second from 40 OM-5 offensive missile launchers. A GHC has an average rate of fire 10 times faster than the ISD. Also, we see how SW ships handle collision with physical objects (The Hoth asteroid field in RotJ). Now, instead of slow moving asteroids, try projectiles at 0.85c to 0.95 c. Add to the fact that their ordiance is guided and can make course corrections to hit their targets as opposed turbolasers that go pretty much in a straight path.

They can also hit fast moving, small objects. And an ISD-II has eight(?) heavy turbolasers, each with likely more than 200+ GT of damage. Though the Andromeda can probably run circles around an ISD, it only takes the ISD one or two lucky hits to kill her.

Can it get its luck shot before the Andromeda lobs hundreds of missiles into its hull? The heavy turbolasers are not designed to shoot targets that can outmanuever the Falcon or accelerate at rates 50 times faster than any SW ships could ever pull.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Also, even the fighters carry offensive missiles as well. A couple of Centaur and Shrike fighters can go ahead of the main ship and take out the ISD's turbolasers and ion cannons.

[Master of Ossus]

I think that there are a couple of things going on here.

First, I think that it is psychologically important to think that whatever universe we like the best is superior to other universes, and that it is the most powerful. This is, of course, completely illogical. Part of what gave B5 its charm was that humans were not the most powerful race, technologically. Indeed, B5 probably would not have worked as well if it had involved the kind of multi-megaton missiles and energy weapons of Star Trek or Star Wars. Nevertheless, I think that this is a continuation of the old "I'm better than [insert name] because my car is better," or the inverse, "I am not better than [insert name] because my car is worse." It is not in the least bit logical, but I do think that something can be said about human psyches by looking at thise.

Second, I think that many people have difficult evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of technologies that we currently have no knowledge about during our everday lives. For instance, in Star Wars there are immensely powerful turbolasers shooting back and forth across the screen. I remember that I, too, was surprised that they were as extraordinarily powerful as they really are because we really have nothing to compare them to. They rarely destroy anything that we are familiar with, and we assume for many universes that because they have the technology to build something it must be better in every way than modern technology (hand phasers, anyone?), even when in actuality it may be more limited or have other disadvantages.

[omegaLancer]

problem is the number of Turbo lasers you use is from the old WEG games.. The figure is incorrect.. Just from the film the number is to low.. A ISD II has 64 turbo laser just in the turret flanking the bridge.. plus it doesnot take in account heavy battery, super heavy battery, LTL and the twin quad batteries.

As for other factor, remember the fact that Flak capablities make up for any lack of homing ability....

[Connor MacLeod]

[quote="Crossover_Maniac]
And at a rate of fire of one shot every two seconds vs. the GHC eight shots per second from 40 OM-5 offensive missile launchers. A GHC has an average rate of fire 10 times faster than the ISD. Also, we see how SW ships handle collision with physical objects (The Hoth asteroid field in RotJ). Now, instead of slow moving asteroids, try projectiles at 0.85c to 0.95 c. Add to the fact that their ordiance is guided and can make course corrections to hit their targets as opposed turbolasers that go pretty much in a straight path.
[/quote]

The asteorid incident has been covered exhaustively by both Wayne Poe and Mike Wong. I suggest you check out their sites if you are not familiar with the details. SW Particle shielding is quite sufficient to deal with a single barrage of kinetic missiles from almost any Andromeda vessel, even at fairly low ends and assuming 100% accuracy on the Andromeda ship's part. Don't start pulling this "I'm going to ignore the EU and cite the Canon as overriding" BS. It doesn't work. Ask anyone who has debated Darkstar.

Can it get its luck shot before the Andromeda lobs hundreds of missiles into its hull? The heavy turbolasers are not designed to shoot targets that can outmanuever the Falcon or accelerate at rates 50 times faster than any SW ships could ever pull.

perhaps, but again this assumes that it can actually DO anything to begin with. I've rather exhaustively covered the whole KE missile angle, and the options available to an Imperial vessel.

[Connor MacLeod]

Also, even the fighters carry offensive missiles as well. A couple of Centaur and Shrike fighters can go ahead of the main ship and take out the ISD's turbolasers and ion cannons.

Again, assuming they can breach the shields.