Can borg drones adapt to blaster fire

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-05-12 10:04am

I think not. Here are some important reasons as to why.

In first contact we learned that the borg personal shielding can not adapt to gases, a fact that picard used to destroy the borg on the Enterprise. He also said "like all cybernetic beings the borg can not exist without their organic components". Borg personal shields failed to stop the cryoplasma from eating away their flesh and though their implants were intact the drones were dead. This has several important implications.

Firstly the borg would be volunerable to chemical and biological weopens. Their personal shield can not protect their volunerable organic parts from from poison gas or micro organism attacks. Even if the the chemicals and microbes only effect organic matter it would still kill borg drones since they can not survive without their organic components. In fact in one voyger episode called "the collective" all the drones aboard a cube were killed by a virus. This proves beyond all doubt that imperial chemical and biological attacks would be abosolutely devastating against the borg.

Secondly the borg personal shields would not work against plasma which simply super-heated gas. This means if imperial blasters realy fire plasma bolts borg drones would not be able to adapt to them. The question that is up to debate here is whether blasters realy fire plasma or not.

Thirdly the borg would be immune to ion pistols. Borg drones clearly survived the intense ionising radiation found in space in STFC indicating their shields would work against ion pistols.

Any comments, thoughts or threats of any kind ?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-12 10:43am

It comes down to the Turbolaser vs the Borg again

Raw power

The Borg drones might be able to optimize there shields against Blasters, but in time, the blaster would just overpower them and cut through

Also, remember Stormtroopers and Imperial's have nothing against causing lots of damage to the terrain to kill there opponent, i.e collapsing the ceiling...

Ion weapons actually should work on the Borg drones. An Ion gun (like an Ion Cannon), would pack more power then standard background space radiation.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-12 11:06am

evilcat4000 wrote:Thirdly the borg would be immune to ion pistols. Borg drones clearly survived the intense ionising radiation found in space in STFC indicating their shields would work against ion pistols.

Just because they were able to withstand SOME ionising radiation doesn't mean they are completely immune to a much heavier bombardment.

*pokes both n00bs*

Sr.mal · Post by **Sr.mal** » 2003-05-12 11:48am

Cryoplasma: the oxymoron of ST. I'm cold superheated gas on the brink of fusion.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-05-12 01:33pm

Blasters have kinetic energy as well.Very messy when the shield implants are ripped from the borgs flesh

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-05-12 01:41pm

THE oxymoron of ST?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-12 03:08pm

Blasters work by raw power and have far more of it. Even if one shot didn't kill a drone, a multi round burst would do it.

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2003-05-12 03:35pm

** NOOB HELLSPAWN HEAD SMASH POKE**

Dmaster · Post by **Dmaster** » 2003-05-12 03:55pm

Drone can adapt to part of the blaster bolt..... The tracer.

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-12 06:11pm

in my opinion, the borg would be able to adapt to the blaster, for a couple of reasons. 1. the borg are a good deal tougher than your average humanoid who would get flayed by a blaster, as can be seen in any episode of ST where the redshirts are shooting/punching/attacking the borg in any way possible, and the borg are often unphased. 2. The blaster, while powerful, is not quite as powerful as is being portrayed by some of the other people posting on this board. When Leia is shot in RoTJ the arm by an imperial blaster, she is shooting her pistol again in less than a minute with the same arm. If it was as poewrful as claimed, her arm should have been messed up badly. Overall, The borg will be able to adapt to one or two people shotting blasters at them. Massive mobs however, and they will go down like anyone else would.

P.S.- If there is canon evidence outside of the movies as to the destructive abilities of blasters, or if i am misenterpreting the canon from either show. let me know.

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-12 06:14pm

Also, remember Stormtroopers and Imperial's have nothing against causing lots of damage to the terrain to kill there opponent, i.e collapsing the ceiling...

that would make it a good deal easier for the stormtroopers[/quote]

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-05-12 06:27pm

The blaster, while powerful, is not quite as powerful as is being portrayed by some of the other people posting on this board. When Leia is shot in RoTJ the arm by an imperial blaster, she is shooting her pistol again in less than a minute with the same arm.

VARIABLE YIELDS.

Refer back to ANH where blaster shots against walls go off with the strength of a hand grenade. They can pump up the juice on the blaster rifles... the shot that hit Leia just happened to be turned down (hey, when you're facing a thousand unarmored little critters, you don't need that much punch to take one down... you DO, however, need to make a lot of shots).

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-12 06:30pm

VARIABLE YIELDS.

Refer back to ANH where blaster shots against walls go off with the strength of a hand grenade. They can pump up the juice on the blaster rifles... the shot that hit Leia just happened to be turned down (hey, when you're facing a thousand unarmored little critters, you don't need that much punch to take one down... you DO, however, need to make a lot of shots).

Fair enough. So they crank up the juice, and the borg feel pain.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-05-12 06:30pm

Since blaster fire has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to punch soft-ball sized chunks out of a solid metal wall, and can blast torso-sized chunks out of ferrocrete, I would say that the energy of blaster-impacts would be capable of punching through Borg shields--as was shown to be possible in the latest ENT episode, "Resurrection." Moreover, phaser fire has been able to daze and slow down advancing drones, showing that they are affected by some sort of impact from phaser fire, proving that "bleeding" occurs with Borg shields (since phasers do not generate KE, as shown by the lack of recoil demonstrated every time a phaser has ever been fired, thus the KE that the targets appear to show must be generated by the phaser's interaction with matter). Thus, the Borg's shields would not be able to completely adapt to blaster fire.

A more interesting question is whether or not the Borg would be able to adapt AT ALL to SW blaster fire. Since the Borg clearly utilize the frequency-dependent nature of most weapons in order to improve the effectiveness of their shields, I would say that the answer is probably "no." The Borg would probably not be able to improve the effectiveness of their shields against SW weaponry, at least to a significant degree.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-12 08:38pm

You fucking idiot.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/blastcement1.jpg

Borg are goint to be roasted dumbass.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2003-05-12 09:42pm

Fremen_Muhadib wrote:in my opinion, the borg would be able to adapt to the blaster, for a couple of reasons. 1. the borg are a good deal tougher than your average humanoid who would get flayed by a blaster, as can be seen in any episode of ST where the redshirts are shooting/punching/attacking the borg in any way possible, and the borg are often unphased. 2. The blaster, while powerful, is not quite as powerful as is being portrayed by some of the other people posting on this board. When Leia is shot in RoTJ the arm by an imperial blaster, she is shooting her pistol again in less than a minute with the same arm. If it was as poewrful as claimed, her arm should have been messed up badly. Overall, The borg will be able to adapt to one or two people shotting blasters at them. Massive mobs however, and they will go down like anyone else would.

P.S.- If there is canon evidence outside of the movies as to the destructive abilities of blasters, or if i am misenterpreting the canon from either show. let me know.

1. What does their over all toughnes have to do with the affects of a blaster. A beam of plasma will burn a big hole in any ones chest be it Klingon or Human.
2. Han Solo's blaster blasts huge holes in the permacreat at the space port. I think a blaster is powerful enough to turn a borg into ground beef

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-05-13 12:01am

Fremen_Muhadib wrote:in my opinion, the borg would be able to adapt to the blaster, for a couple of reasons. 1. the borg are a good deal tougher than your average humanoid who would get flayed by a blaster, as can be seen in any episode of ST where the redshirts are shooting/punching/attacking the borg in any way possible, and the borg are often unphased.

1. Who gives a fuck? A blaster can easily kill anyone, anyway. Any marginal differences in "toughness" will be irrelevant.
2. Is that what we saw in ST:First Contact, when shots from a Tommy gun tore straight through borg drones' armor like it was made out of leather?

2. The blaster, while powerful, is not quite as powerful as is being portrayed by some of the other people posting on this board. When Leia is shot in RoTJ the arm by an imperial blaster, she is shooting her pistol again in less than a minute with the same arm. If it was as poewrful as claimed, her arm should have been messed up badly.

Explain the results that the rest of us are demonstrating.

The only reconciliation possible is the use of variable yields, or flexible and incredibly good body armor.

Overall, The borg will be able to adapt to one or two people shotting blasters at them.

Explain how the Borg can even adapt to something that is not frequency-dependant. Oh, wait, you can't. Too bad. I was looking forward to it.

Massive mobs however, and they will go down like anyone else would.

P.S.- If there is canon evidence outside of the movies as to the destructive abilities of blasters, or if i am misenterpreting the canon from either show. let me know.

[slaps forehead with hand]

Darth Negation · Post by **Darth Negation** » 2003-05-13 12:42am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:You fucking idiot.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/blastcement1.jpg

Borg are goint to be roasted dumbass.

Uhh, I think he admitted that;

Fremen_Muhadib wrote:
VARIABLE YIELDS.

Refer back to ANH where blaster shots against walls go off with the strength of a hand grenade. They can pump up the juice on the blaster rifles... the shot that hit Leia just happened to be turned down (hey, when you're facing a thousand unarmored little critters, you don't need that much punch to take one down... you DO, however, need to make a lot of shots).

Fair enough. So they crank up the juice, and the borg feel pain.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2003-05-13 03:26am

Even if they somehow managed to adapt (don't ask me how) you can still blow the wall beside the drone and a piece of metal get's lodged at the drone's throat.

Or, just collapse the cealing.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-13 11:54am

Fremen_Muhadib wrote:The blaster, while powerful, is not quite as powerful as is being portrayed by some of the other people posting on this board. When Leia is shot in RoTJ the arm by an imperial blaster, she is shooting her pistol again in less than a minute with the same arm. If it was as poewrful as claimed, her arm should have been messed up badly.

Wrong.
1. She was shot in the left arm and she shot the Stormtrooper with her right arm. Watch the movie ya deadhead.

2. The Stormtroopers were clearly under orders to take prisoners alive.

Vader on the Endor Landing platform: "Good work commander. Conduct your search and bring his companions to me."

Shortie · Post by **Shortie** » 2003-05-14 05:08pm

Master of Ossus wrote: A more interesting question is whether or not the Borg would be able to adapt AT ALL to SW blaster fire. Since the Borg clearly utilize the frequency-dependent nature of most weapons in order to improve the effectiveness of their shields, I would say that the answer is probably "no." The Borg would probably not be able to improve the effectiveness of their shields against SW weaponry, at least to a significant degree.

Normally I'm making this point against the Borg, but adaptation is something done by every soldier and combat vehicle\weapon\etc. Simply adding extra metal plates to the chest say is adaptation against most weapons fire, and given the speed at which assimilation takes place that should be possible on the fly for drones. Of course that doesn't make them immune, just tougher, but it should be perfectly possible, as should becoming environmentally sealed.

OTOH, I'm not promising that the Borg are intelligent enough to actually do any of this.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-05-15 05:38pm

As our heroes escape thru the corridor, two Borg drones intercept them. Joe McGesundheit unholsters his blaster and shoots a drone directly in the chest. The Borg drone falls down, immobile.

"Ha ha, piece of cake!" says Joe "I'm beating you 417 to 6!"

Enraged, Darkstar Binks pulls his own blaster rifle, and aims at the other drone's head. The moment he pulls the trigger though, the drone ducks and evades the shot!

"Look, they've adapted!"

Joe pulls his blaster again, and shoots at the drone's foot. The drone falls to the floor, writhing in pain or something.

"According to my calculations, these Borgs will learn how to take cover after 500 or so more casualties. I think we're safe for now. Anyway, they'll probably forget how to do it after they go back to sleep."

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-05-15 11:08pm

I suppose its possible that the Borg could adapt to an E-11, but I see no evidence that they could. Their adaptation could be based on something besides frequencies, but by all appearances it is in fact frequency-based.

By all appearances and evidence, the typical SW blaster is not something to which Borg drones could adapt.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-05-16 10:40am

Shortie wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote: A more interesting question is whether or not the Borg would be able to adapt AT ALL to SW blaster fire. Since the Borg clearly utilize the frequency-dependent nature of most weapons in order to improve the effectiveness of their shields, I would say that the answer is probably "no." The Borg would probably not be able to improve the effectiveness of their shields against SW weaponry, at least to a significant degree.
Normally I'm making this point against the Borg, but adaptation is something done by every soldier and combat vehicle\weapon\etc. Simply adding extra metal plates to the chest say is adaptation against most weapons fire, and given the speed at which assimilation takes place that should be possible on the fly for drones. Of course that doesn't make them immune, just tougher, but it should be perfectly possible, as should becoming environmentally sealed.

OTOH, I'm not promising that the Borg are intelligent enough to actually do any of this.

What was the point of this statement? If the Borg are not "intelligent enough to actually do any of this," then they would not adapt. Since they never even tried to adjust their tactics to Species 8472 (or the UFP, for that matter), I see little reason to suspect that they would begin working on things like this. The only good Borg I ever saw are dead (Lore's little posse).

Shortie · Post by **Shortie** » 2003-05-16 01:55pm

Master of Ossus wrote: What was the point of this statement? If the Borg are not "intelligent enough to actually do any of this," then they would not adapt. Since they never even tried to adjust their tactics to Species 8472 (or the UFP, for that matter), I see little reason to suspect that they would begin working on things like this. The only good Borg I ever saw are dead (Lore's little posse).

I'm arguing against those who claim that there's no possible way the Borg can adapt to blasters, and against everyone who takes adaption to mean magical immunity. We routinely assume the potential for more intelligence on the part of factions than they usually show, and at times the Borg have seemed more intelligent than they are nowadays.

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Can borg drones adapt to blaster fire

Can borg drones adapt to blaster fire

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