Andromeda Weapons Strength.

[Anarchist Bunny]

I don't know if this is mentioned in the previous threads about Andromeda, but it's on right now, and I found some things out, ofcourse this is all dialogue but still.

Tyr says he hit this giant living space creature that traps the andromeda with a full pay load of missles. Later Dylan says that the andromeda hit that thing with 20 gigatons of damage, and that the maru and nothing that could beat that.

[Renewed_Valour1]

Dialogue is higher canon than visuals for Andromeda…

Later Dylan says that the andromeda hit that thing with 20 gigatons of damage, and that the maru and nothing that could beat that.

That would be logical since the Maru is a overpowered modified tug. She wasn't even carrying her weapons pod at the time.

[Mr Bean]

Ouch if thats true thats quiet a neutring for Andromida if its only 20 Giga-tons and that its full complment of missles

[omegaLancer]

Well that would jive since in one second it can fire over 340 missiles.. each rated at 20 mt apiece ..

But I believe that that was not the entire stock missiles that was fired. just the amount that Tear manage to get off. I believe that the Andromeda Missile batteries would each contain a magazine, that could be reload, but that would require a small amount of down time...

.. I doubt the Maru would even be carried that over 100 missiles. since her batteries are external mounted pod ( also stated in the episode) and would only carry a score or two of missiles..

[XaLEv]

Ouch if thats true thats quiet a neutring for Andromida if its only 20 Giga-tons and that its full complment of missles

That was a single salvo, not Andromeda's entire load of missiles.

[HemlockGrey]

How many salvos does it carry? I've personally never seen it fire more than one or two.

[Connor MacLeod]

First off, which episode was this, and what season?

secondly, I'm a bit unclear on the details:

1- Did the Maru fire, or the Andromeda?

2- what kind of missiles were fired?

3- was it stated or did we know how many salvos were fired, and how many tubes?

This is just pure guesstimate, but if its one 320-missile/second salvo from an XMC,and the total was 20 gigatons, that works out to roughly 62.5 Megatons per missile.

If it was the Maru, and it had a total of 40 missiles it deployed, we're working it out to 500 Megatons per missile.

[XaLEv]

First off, which episode was this, and what season?

Season 2, episode "Belly of the Beast". A synopsis can be found here.

secondly, I'm a bit unclear on the details:

1- Did the Maru fire, or the Andromeda?

Andromeda.

2- what kind of missiles were fired?

To the best of my knowledge they were ordinary OM-5s.

3- was it stated or did we know how many salvos were fired, and how many tubes?

I don't remember if the number of missiles fired was stated, but presumably it would be from all 40 tubes. Andromeda was inside the Cetus when it fired, and received damage from the energy released. The shaking and sparking and such lasted for several seconds, which would seem to suggest that Andromeda was firing for those several seconds. It would take around 3.2 seconds for a total of 20 gigatons to be release at 20 megatons per shot.

[The Nomad]

A precision : Andromeda's missiles are kinetic missiles, their mass is 1 kg and their average speed relative to a target is .9c, therefore their relativistic KE is more than 48 mt each, not 20 MT. Unless the writers of the show didn't knew the formula for relativistic KE.

[The Nomad]

Ups I mistyped the units, I'm speaking in megatons of TNT ! ( damn, when will we have an edit function ? )

[XaLEv]

At 48 megatons the missile would have to be travelling at .95 c. At .9 c it's yield would be 27 megatons, and at 20 megatons at .85 c. All three are within the range of velocities given at Allsystems.

[Connor MacLeod]

IIRC the 20 MT yield IS still at something of .9c or .95.. the missile gives up some of its "mass" in propelling it self to the target, so on impact it ways somewhat less than a KG, explaining the "loss" in KE. I don't know if the standard OM's can increase their yield beyond 20 MTs, but I don't think so.

Ironically, 1 KG of antimatter will produce roughly 21.5 MT of energy. But given inefficiencies they probably don't generate the total KE of the missile by A/M alone. Some of it probably comes from the AG effect that they use to improve mobility (AG tech seems to allow them to "cheat" without reducing KE in any fashion)

Perhaps the missiles received an additional "push" from the launch tubes (IIRC they can provide significant initial velocity to the missiles) and this would explain for additional KE damage. I was thinking that perhaps this was one of the other kinds of msisiles though. If it was an OM-5, I suspect that it traded off mobility for increased damage (higher speed translates into a higher inertia, meaning it takes slightly longer for the missile to execute turns. Also, deceleratino also cuts into its total damage, since it loses the energy in order to manuver, since in order to turn it must reduce speed.. and reducing speed reduces the overall KE delivered upon impact unless speed is increased again)

[Connor MacLeod]

First off, which episode was this, and what season?

Season 2, episode "Belly of the Beast". A synopsis can be found here.
[/quote]

Actually I can check the episode, since I have the entire ep on mty computer I'll double check and get back.

I don't remember if the number of missiles fired was stated, but presumably it would be from all 40 tubes. Andromeda was inside the Cetus when it fired, and received damage from the energy released. The shaking and sparking and such lasted for several seconds, which would seem to suggest that Andromeda was firing for those several seconds. It would take around 3.2 seconds for a total of 20 gigatons to be release at 20 megatons per shot.

Ah, so we dont know how many seconds it took?

[Renewed_Valour1]

How many salvos does it carry? I've personally never seen it fire more than one or two.

It would be somewhere over 20 full salvos of OM-5 kinetic missiles fully loaded out. I consider a salvo for this purpose defined in All too Human to be one second of fire from all tubes. That would be 320 missiles fired over that second. Now in "All Too Human" Hunt had Rommie salvo her entire payload of OM-5 missiles at the Basilisk, which accounted to 20 salvos. The problem however is that this is the extreme low end figure. Andromeda has been in combat several times since the first season and she's been complaining about the lack of missiles and other expendable the entire time.

Considering the pounding she took in Widening Gyre from the MWS and the amount of ordnance she used against it. Then the amount of ordnance she used against the Pyrian Torchship in "Pitiless as a Sun". With all that fighting her stocks were most likely at the lowest level they could be at before needing replenishing. The only time she's ever been at a full payload is in "Angel Dark Demon Bright".

Besides her OM-5 kinetic missiles she has 5 or 6 different PM-6 Smart Missile variants in her magazines. In "All too Human" she had enough smart missiles to block in the form of deployed missile field all the probable routes that the Basilk could use to attack Mobius. She also carriers defense missiles; which in a pinch could be used against another ship.

[Renewed_Valour1]

1- Did the Maru fire, or the Andromeda?

Andromeda. The only attack the Maru made was Hunt's bombing run using her AP fuel tanks.

2- what kind of missiles were fired?

Unknown…. Might have been anything from OM-5s, DM-5s, or the unlikely option of a Smart Missile variant.

3- was it stated or did we know how many salvos were fired, and how many tubes?

No… I'll find the exact dialogue later but it isn't very clear…

[omegaLancer]

The fact is that the Ammo can manufacture new ammo, all she needs is raw matter.. On several occasion Dilan had comment about it..

One factor is that the ammo carries several different load. The major portion would be divided between the defensive and offensive load, then the Long range, and multiwarhead versions.. Apparentily Tear must have gone thru the standard KE rounds..The only thing that seem to stop him was the fact that the Andromeda was taking a massive pounding ...

[Renewed_Valour1]

The fact is that the Ammo can manufacture new ammo, all she needs is raw matter.. On several occasion Dilan had comment about it..

The fact is that it takes time and machine shop resources to make those new missiles. That time and resources are usually spent just maintaining and repairing battle damage. Harper at several points has said how it is a miracle that Andromeda is operating at all considering all the damage she has and has taken. Making full loadouts of missiles are going to be fairly low on their list of priorities compared to other things. We also have statements from Rommie in several episodes that she does not have nearly anything near a fully loadout of missiles. Even in "Home Fires" shortly after "All too Human" she is commenting on how her missile magazines along with drones and fighters are at critically low levels. So the amount of missiles used in "Belly of the Beast" and "All too Human" is no where near a full loadout of kinetic missiles. Just like the fact that Andromeda is no where near being an example of what a fully manned and loaded out Glorious Heritage Cruiser can do.

[XaLEv]

IIRC the 20 MT yield IS still at something of .9c or .95.. the missile gives up some of its "mass" in propelling it self to the target, so on impact it ways somewhat less than a KG, explaining the "loss" in KE. I don't know if the standard OM's can increase their yield beyond 20 MTs, but I don't think so.

Any evidence for this? I've never seen anything suggesting that OM-5s have their own engines.

[Connor MacLeod]

IIRC the 20 MT yield IS still at something of .9c or .95.. the missile gives up some of its "mass" in propelling it self to the target, so on impact it ways somewhat less than a KG, explaining the "loss" in KE. I don't know if the standard OM's can increase their yield beyond 20 MTs, but I don't think so.

Any evidence for this? I've never seen anything suggesting that OM-5s have their own engines.

They Manuver, don't they? The whole premise of the OM missile is that a guided warhead is better than a "dumb-fired" projectile or beam weapon - you get greater range, improved accuracy, etc. To both manuver and to accelerate (the missiles HAVE an acceleration rating, remember, 4200 kilo-Gs, IIRC allsystems.org) they need engines.

[XaLEv]

They Manuver, don't they? The whole premise of the OM missile is that a guided warhead is better than a "dumb-fired" projectile or beam weapon - you get greater range, improved accuracy, etc. To both manuver and to accelerate (the missiles HAVE an acceleration rating, remember, 4200 kilo-Gs, IIRC allsystems.org) they need engines.

Conceded. However, I disagree strongly with your theory that they use some of their stated mass as fuel. It seems far more likely that one kilogram is simply the unchanging mass of the payload, with any fuel being extra. For it's yield to be 20 megatons at .9 c it would have to lose over a quarter of it's mass, and over half at .95 c. Nowhere have I seen anything suggesting that this happens.

[Renewed_Valour1]

the missile gives up some of its "mass" in propelling it self to the target, so on impact it ways somewhat less than a KG, explaining the "loss" in KE. I don't know if the standard OM's can increase their yield beyond 20 MTs, but I don't think so.

The assumption that I've seen largely made at SlipstreamBBS is that the mass of the missile unloaded is 1 kg; in the same manner most aircraft are weighed unfueled. That then the fuel is additional mass added to the missile's 1 kg mass.

That would also explain why Hunt often closes the range when engaging with kinetic missile and why he waited untiul point blank range against the Pyrians. The AP needed to get a missile that size out to a light minute or more range, speed, and still be able to maneuver would add a significant portion more damage to the missile at close ranges.

[omegaLancer]

The fact is the Standard offensive missile max range is less than 2 light minutes, as Dilan comment in Belly of the beast, normal combat range is 30 Light seconds..

the reason Dilan closes against the Pyrians is due to the Pyrian ECM. The Plasma technology that the Pryian employ makes the normal passive sensors blind and forces the andromeda to use active tracking, which requires the Andromeda to close to at least 1/2 the range she normally engages...

The point is that Dilan has stated on several occasion that the yield of these missiles are 20MT, and other fact is that the Missile tubes do propel the missile, but only to a distant where they can engage their own drive units safetly.

So we must assume that the Mass lighting technology and the fact that AP and matter is consume to propel the missile contribute to fact the yield is not higher..

Common wealth ships can engage at distants of several AU, but this require the deployement of drones to provide guidance and the use of stragetical version of the Kinect missiles..

From Home fires, we know that the Andromeda is short of drones and slip fighters, and these item must require material or components that cannot be manufactured on the Andromeda.. But there appear no shortage of the standard Offensive missile, since as Dilan normal tell Rommie, " We find you a nice Asteriod belt"..

[Sea Skimmer]

IIRC the 20 MT yield IS still at something of .9c or .95.. the missile gives up some of its "mass" in propelling it self to the target, so on impact it ways somewhat less than a KG, explaining the "loss" in KE. I don't know if the standard OM's can increase their yield beyond 20 MTs, but I don't think so.

Any evidence for this? I've never seen anything suggesting that OM-5s have their own engines.

They Manuver, don't they? The whole premise of the OM missile is that a guided warhead is better than a "dumb-fired" projectile or beam weapon - you get greater range, improved accuracy, etc. To both manuver and to accelerate (the missiles HAVE an acceleration rating, remember, 4200 kilo-Gs, IIRC allsystems.org) they need engines.

Yes but a small-vectored thrust job could provide course corrections, while the bulk of the thrust comes from the launcher.

[omegaLancer]

No the Show has stated the the tube eject the missile so that the AP driven engine would not damage the ship.. The wake of the missile is Gamma radiation.. The missile then accelerate for several second to reach 90 PSL..

Also the Show writers had posted this during a chat session when ask..And is common repeated on the Andromeda BBS..

From the system Common wealth library:

ELECTROMAGNETIC LAUNCH SYSTEM (ELS): High-powered electro-magnetic missile tubes, which accelerate offensive and defensive loads into space. The ELS is necessary to allow for a safe distance between a missile and the originating starship when the missile activates its organic acceleration capability.

This is along with the 20mt yield is pretty much Cannon since it is a commonily stated value.. The fact is that a higher yield can be obtain by using a AP warhead ( the Than use such a missile to destroy an Asteriod that the Andromeda was hiding in "Dance of the Mayflies"

[omegaLancer]

No the Show has stated the the tube eject the missile so that the AP driven engine would not damage the ship.. The wake of the missile is Gamma radiation.. The missile then accelerate for several second to reach 90 PSL..

Also the Show writers had posted this during a chat session when ask..And is common repeated on the Andromeda BBS..

From the system Common wealth library:

ELECTROMAGNETIC LAUNCH SYSTEM (ELS): High-powered electro-magnetic missile tubes, which accelerate offensive and defensive loads into space. The ELS is necessary to allow for a safe distance between a missile and the originating starship when the missile activates its organic acceleration capability.

This is along with the 20mt yield is pretty much Cannon since it is a commonily stated value.. The fact is that a higher yield can be obtain by using a AP warhead ( the Than use such a missile to destroy an Asteriod that the Andromeda was hiding in "Dance of the Mayflies" )... But it not normally used cause it slow the missile down making it easier to defend against