Japanese War Guilt Debate

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-05-15 03:01am

My problem is with the elitist otakus and fanboys who believes anybody who doesn't understands or likes the show is an inferior person.

Back to the subject of GotF, I refuse to watch it until the day the Japanese people fully acknowledges the shit they pulled before and during WWII.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-15 03:20am

Rubberanvil wrote:Back to the subject of GotF, I refuse to watch it until the day the Japanese people fully acknowledges the shit they pulled before and during WWII.

Some people may argue whether or not you have a point there. I haven't seen it myself, didn't even know what it was about 'til this thread. I did notice a slight whitewashing of history in Godzilla vs King Ghidora, though. And a model of the Yamato was used as an American ship!

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-05-15 03:27am

Rubberanvil wrote: Back to the subject of GotF, I refuse to watch it until the day the Japanese people fully acknowledges the shit they pulled before and during WWII.

While I acknowledge that the Japanese as a society have yet to properly deal with their wartime history, much the same could be said for any number of nations the US included. We have a number of shameful incidents sprinkled throughout our history that rival any of the atrocities committed by Japan during the war. This does not absolve them, nor us, of our lapse, but I don't think you should condem a truly important work of cinema just out of spite for the land that created it. GotF has a powerful message in it, one more people need to see and understand so that we don't keep repeating thoes self same 'shameful incidents' that bring about so much pain and suffering for our fellow men.

*stepsoffsoapbox*

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-05-15 04:28am

Sokar wrote: While I acknowledge that the Japanese as a society have yet to properly deal with their wartime history, much the same could be said for any number of nations the US included. We have a number of shameful incidents sprinkled throughout our history that rival any of the atrocities committed by Japan during the war.

The difference between Japan and the USA is the American people and Government already acknowledges just about every atrocity done by Americans have done. What atrocity have the United States have done which could possibly rival what the Japanese have done? Sure Americans have massacre people in the hundreds and in a couple of cases thousands. But tens of thousands killed in a short amount of time like say a month at most, I don't think America has done that, not counting bombing missions are they're debatable.

GotF has a powerful message in it, one more people need to see and understand so that we don't keep repeating thoes self same 'shameful incidents' that bring about so much pain and suffering for our fellow men.

The messege a lot people see is the Americans are the bad guys who like to kill poor defenseless innocent Japanese people, not the messege Miyazaki intended.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-05-15 10:14am

Rubberanvil wrote:
Sokar wrote: While I acknowledge that the Japanese as a society have yet to properly deal with their wartime history, much the same could be said for any number of nations the US included. We have a number of shameful incidents sprinkled throughout our history that rival any of the atrocities committed by Japan during the war.
The difference between Japan and the USA is the American people and Government already acknowledges just about every atrocity done by Americans have done. What atrocity have the United States have done which could possibly rival what the Japanese have done? Sure Americans have massacre people in the hundreds and in a couple of cases thousands. But tens of thousands killed in a short amount of time like say a month at most, I don't think America has done that, not counting bombing missions are they're debatable.

By the same token, they naver nuked a city.

But that doesn't excuse the Rape of Nanking, but the RoN doesn't excuse the atrocities the US has comitted over time to damn near everybody who was not them, or of similar appearance. After all, the Japanese eventually left Nanking...

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-05-15 10:18am

SAMAS wrote: By the same token, they naver nuked a city.

But that doesn't excuse the Rape of Nanking, but the RoN doesn't excuse the atrocities the US has comitted over time to damn near everybody who was not them, or of similar appearance. After all, the Japanese eventually left Nanking...

Hey cool, another goddamn japanaese apologist, on top of his crimes
of being a mecha fanwhore...

Why don't you take a hint: Shut the Fuck Up, before you drown us all
with your bullshit.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-05-15 10:55am

For once and interesting debate that sprang forth from a Shep created thread, hijacked by someone OTHER than Shep....will wonders never cease.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-05-15 11:00am

MKSheppard wrote: Hey cool, another goddamn japanaese apologist, on top of his crimes
of being a mecha fanwhore...

Why don't you take a hint: Shut the Fuck Up, before you drown us all
with your bullshit.

You're being quite a biscuitbutt over nothing, man

I'd like to know how he's an apologist

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-05-15 11:02am

Frank Hipper wrote: I did notice a slight whitewashing of history in Godzilla vs King Ghidora, though. And a model of the Yamato was used as an American ship!

Yep! I noticed it too. The idea of evil Invaders in nothing new to Japanese cinema and Godzilla movies in particular. IMO they have always been a metaphor for all forces that have invaded japan in the past. That time, it was much more blatantly pointed at america.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2003-05-15 11:05am

SAMAS wrote:By the same token, they naver nuked a city.

You do know the US saved lives by leveling those 2 cities?

If you cant figure that out, then you really really are fucking dumb.

After all, the Japanese eventually left Nanking...

And the Soviets eventually stopped their internal purges which killed more people then Hitler ever could.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-05-15 11:05am

Hamel wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: Hey cool, another goddamn japanaese apologist, on top of his crimes
of being a mecha fanwhore...

Why don't you take a hint: Shut the Fuck Up, before you drown us all
with your bullshit.
You're being quite a biscuitbutt over nothing, man

I'd like to know how he's an apologist

That's why I call him a Dumbass. Because everytime his hole opens up, out comes some dumb shit.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-15 11:10am

SAMAS wrote:
By the same token, they naver nuked a city.

Yes, the Japanese would prefer the "kill or wound three million in a month" alternative. The Japanese never had nukes, but you can be sure they'd use them if they. Imperial Japan however did have biological weapons and used them heavily against the Chinese.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-05-15 11:12am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
By the same token, they naver nuked a city.
Yes, the Japanese would prefer the "kill or wound three million in a month" alternative. The Japanese never had nukes, but you can be sure they'd use them if they. Imperial Japan however did have biological weapons and used them heavily against the Chinese.

IIRC Truman had second thoughts about the necessity of using the bomb after it was dropped, and the casuality figures were revised waaaay down

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-15 11:21am

Hamel wrote:
IIRC Truman had second thoughts about the necessity of using the bomb after it was dropped, and the casuality figures were revised waaaay down

Actually estimates for the losses went up considerably, post war examinations of Japanese records found that the US greatly underestimated the IJA's strength, by several hundreds of thousands of men.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-05-15 11:23am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Hamel wrote:
IIRC Truman had second thoughts about the necessity of using the bomb after it was dropped, and the casuality figures were revised waaaay down
Actually estimates for the losses went up considerably, post war examinations of Japanese records found that the US greatly underestimated the IJA's strength, by several hundreds of thousands of men.

Care to post these estimates? "omg that'd rox"

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-05-15 11:30am

The Japanese were MONSTERS during WWII that really put them on par with the other axis powers. Of course, not saying every Japanese person was evil, just like not every Wermacht soldier was a Nazi. But their practices were almost similar.

While the Hitler targeted mainly Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals.. the Japanese targeted everyone that was not Japanese. Koreans and Chinese were taken for weapons and science experiment. Being raped and killed indiscriminately on the streets.. being raped and killed in large systematic processes. It was incredibly brutal that people still in China and Korea have an intense hatred and mistrust for the Japanese.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-05-15 11:33am

I don't doubt for a second that that Japanese military would've nuked the shit outta china if they had the bombs. Stuff like that happens when you combine Nationalism, Militarization, and Racism.

Not to mention the standard wartime practice of dehumanizing your enemy.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-15 11:52am

Hamel wrote:Care to post these estimates? "omg that'd rox"

I have Frank's Downfall at home, I'll comb through it for ya.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-05-15 12:00pm

SAMAS wrote:I don't doubt for a second that that Japanese military would've nuked the shit outta china if they had the bombs. Stuff like that happens when you combine Nationalism, Militarization, and Racism.

Not to mention the standard wartime practice of dehumanizing your enemy.

Thank goodness the USA managed to neuter this in WW2.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-05-15 12:01pm

This is one of those things i don't even want to understand.

After all, the Japanese eventually left Nanking...

They should be glad the Americans are still there. They have a lot of enemies. Particularly one large nuclear capable enemy with a bone to pick.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-15 12:02pm

Rubberanvil wrote:My problem is with the elitist otakus and fanboys who believes anybody who doesn't understands or likes the show is an inferior person.

Back to the subject of GotF, I refuse to watch it until the day the Japanese people fully acknowledges the shit they pulled before and during WWII.

Enjoy your wait on a good sofa then, ain't gonna happen in my lifetime as it never occured in my grandfathers (even though he wasn't a POW in Burma, he did get shot in the lung, his only good lung at that).

The Japanese don't acknowledge the past like the Germans do who, rightfully so, are feeling a little irritated in the subject being brought up and having to apologise for mistakes they never made.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-15 12:37pm

Moved to Politics.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-15 12:44pm

Japan never apologized and never made any show of remorse for the war. It's perfectly fair to note that with regards to Japanese culture because unlike Germany (or the US) they've never apologized and make every effort to avoid even acknowleding the atrocities that they committed. That continues to affect their mindset today and it makes you wonder and even worry.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-05-15 01:00pm

NecronLord wrote:This is one of those things i don't even want to understand.

After all, the Japanese eventually left Nanking...
They should be glad the Americans are still there. They have a lot of enemies. Particularly one large nuclear capable enemy with a bone to pick.

That wasn't in reverence to anything we did to them. I was referring to the first, and last people we conquered.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-05-15 01:44pm

SAMAS wrote: That's why I call him a Dumbass. Because everytime his hole opens up, out comes some dumb shit.

Speaks the guy who just vomited forth a mountain of garbage about
Japanese warcrimes and how the A-Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
was 100 times more evil than what the Japs did.