Stormbringer wrote:The Asgard would like to ask the Floaters why they insist that the NBA members were acting to seize technology that was there for sale?
It is somewhat suspicious when a fleet of ships refuses to declare intentions, particularly after opening fire on an allied ship. As far as that captain knew, it was a malicious attack.
The NBA vessels declared their intention and made it plain in multiple transmissions to the Floater ship. Their response was to move to an offensive stance. That combined with their fleet jumping in indicated they were moving in support of the Krytos.
None of which proves the Floaters insane and paranoid claim that the NBA members were trying to steal the technology for sale at the arms exhibition.
Thirdfain wrote:
the fact remains- By moving in your own capital ships, you violated the spirit of the expo. By calling in your allies, for NO APPARENT REASON, you raised some serious questions in the minds of those present.
Your delusions grow greater by the moment. Aiding each other when under attack by WMD is one of the founding principals of the NBA. We called for the support of allies after the Kytos had fired.
The Kokand Warmongers can try to twist facts as they please, but the truth is simple: Kokand did what it could to escalate the conflict, Kokand ignored requests for explanations, and Kokand fired first, on vessels which had stood down!
Vessels, which should never have been in a position to carry out by then meaningless gestures. You where warned not to bring additional vessels into the system. Had the floaters complied with international law at any point there would have been no battle and negotiations would be in process between Krytos and Kokand.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
The Asgard would like to ask the Floaters why they insist that the NBA members were acting to seize technology that was there for sale?
Now, it appears that that was not the case. At the time, it looked an awful lot like the NBA was trying to acheive local military superiority, in an area which was flying the flag of commerce and truce.
Ambassador from the Kokand Empire, your captains would have done the same thing in that situation, and you know it.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
None of which proves the Floaters insane and paranoid claim that the NBA members were trying to steal the technology for sale at the arms exhibition
Read the previous message.Keep in mind that once it became clear that this was not the case, Floater vessels moved out mof an offensive stance immediatly.
The NBA vessels declared their intention and made it plain in multiple transmissions to the Floater ship. Their response was to move to an offensive stance. That combined with their fleet jumping in indicated they were moving in support of the Krytos.
The "Black Alice's" first transmission was in SUPPORT of the NBA. It was only when the NBA targetted the "Black Alice" and ordered her to stand down, for no apparent reason, that we began to suspect the NBA's intentions. Those suspisions turned out to be untrue, and upon realizing that, we moved to defuse the situation. That was about the time the Kokand warships opened fire on a vessel who's weapons were powered down.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Thirdfain wrote:
The "Black Alice's" first transmission was in SUPPORT of the NBA. It was only when the NBA targetted the "Black Alice" and ordered her to stand down, for no apparent reason, that we began to suspect the NBA's intentions. Those suspisions turned out to be untrue, and upon realizing that, we moved to defuse the situation. That was about the time the Kokand warships opened fire on a vessel who's weapons were powered down.
Yes, we told you to keep clear of an Alliance matter, you are not part of the NBA nor have your vessels ever engaged in maneuvers with ours. You could have at best gotten in the way and far more likely where moving to attack our craft in support of your ally. After this you began launching combat craft, an act of war. What should we have thought? Perhaps they you planned to close the range before opening fire? It is far less a stretch then your ground less delusions.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
After this you began launching combat craft, an act of war.
Launching a fighter screen is not an act of war- it is a defensive action. Considering the Kokand Empire's willingness to open fire on pretty much anything, our captain decided to protect herself from any possible aggression.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
After this you began launching combat craft, an act of war.
Launching a fighter screen is not an act of war- it is a defensive action. Considering the Kokand Empire's willingness to open fire on pretty much anything, our captain decided to protect herself from any possible aggression.
Fighter are offensive weapons. Given the heinousness of the attack it certainly constitutes a needless escalation. Besides, the Floaters ignored numerous calls to stand down until their own actions had doomed them. The Floaters committed numerous provocations which led to the battle.
After this you began launching combat craft, an act of war.
Launching a fighter screen is not an act of war- it is a defensive action. Considering the Kokand Empire's willingness to open fire on pretty much anything, our captain decided to protect herself from any possible aggression.
It was an act that could only have heightened tensions. The logical course of action, if the captain feared attack, would have been to run.
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
Fighter are offensive weapons. Given the heinousness of the attack it certainly constitutes a needless escalation
Fighters are an offensive weapon. Lancers are defensive craft. To quote the late Freewoman Captain, this is from the "Black Alice's" blackbox:
Strikeship command, order all Lancers to launch, I want a fighter screen up immediatly."
A fighter screen- not strikes against surrounding vessels, not bombing runs- screening duty. Defense. Hardly surprising, when ships are suddenly opening fire on eachother at a peaceful exposition.
The Floaters committed numerous provocations which led to the battle.
In response to NBA actions, in the defense of floater civilians on the planet- and when the situation became clear, we were the ones who stood down.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Thirdfain wrote:
Launching a fighter screen is not an act of war- it is a defensive action. Considering the Kokand Empire's willingness to open fire on pretty much anything, our captain decided to protect herself from any possible aggression.
Within our space you abide by Kokand law. That law forbids the launching of fighter craft or missiles. You where ordered to recall them and leave but did not. If you where so concerned with defence then why did you remain in a hostile situation you where inflaming?
OOC: I hope you know that in most nations waters today simply launching an unarmed helicopter requires prior approval.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
It was an act that could only have heightened tensions. The logical course of action, if the captain feared attack, would have been to run.
To leave over a hundred genemodded floaters in a gravity well? Such a thing is not done. The floater delegates have exoskeleton supports to allow them to move around in a planet's gravity, but they would have experienced painful sideffects of high gravity after only a few days. Leaving them ws not an option.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Fighter are offensive weapons. Given the heinousness of the attack it certainly constitutes a needless escalation
Fighters are an offensive weapon. Lancers are defensive craft.
That's a meaningless difference.
To quote the late Freewoman Captain, this is from the "Black Alice's" blackbox:
Strikeship command, order all Lancers to launch, I want a fighter screen up immediatly."
A fighter screen- not strikes against surrounding vessels, not bombing runs- screening duty. Defense. Hardly surprising, when ships are suddenly opening fire on eachother at a peaceful exposition.
The OU wasn't aware that the black box had been found, considerering that all Floater vessels have been banned from Kokand space. The OU still has destroyers looking through the wreckage from that pointless battle the Floaters started..
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
Thirdfain wrote:
A fighter screen- not strikes against surrounding vessels, not bombing runs- screening duty. Defense. Hardly surprising, when ships are suddenly opening fire on eachother at a peaceful exposition.
What better way to help the situation then to illegally launch combat craft, then ignore an order to recall them and leave. And what threatened your citizens? Perhaps the nine gigaton last showering the planet in rads? A shot fired by your ally. Or perhaps the coming battle, which your prescience and refusal to obey international law while committing acts of war caused?
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
no, it isn't. Lancers are larger vessels, 5-10 man crew, designed as anti-fighter and missile gunships. They mount PD guns.
According to OU definitions, that's a fighter-class vessel.
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
Thirdfain wrote:
To leave over a hundred genemodded floaters in a gravity well? Such a thing is not done. The floater delegates have exoskeleton supports to allow them to move around in a planet's gravity, but they would have experienced painful sideffects of high gravity after only a few days. Leaving them ws not an option.
With no battle they would have been able to depart in hours, just like the other delegations. Its because if your actions that we now hold them. Though we have been kind enough to deactivate the artificial G system.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
What better way to help the situation then to illegally launch combat craft, then ignore an order to recall them and leave. And what threatened your citizens?
What threatened my citizens? I would wager that the Kokand assault fleet and the PIR warships might have been a little threatening.
Or perhaps the coming battle, which your prescience and refusal to obey international law while committing acts of war caused
Both our forces acted in a foolish manner. The difference is, when we realized it, we backed down. The Kokand Empire let it's racism and warmongering attitude overwhelm any sense of morality, leading it to commit a brutal act.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Look, his whole incdent, is a tragic communications mistake. Often the decisions of an officer are based on ethics and emotion rather than laws. In this situation, that captains gut instincts where misguided, but not invalid. I hope we can let cooler heads prevail, and that this conflict does not escalate further
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
The PSR suggests a peaceful settlement on the following terms:
Krytos Empire pays appropriate reparations for damages caused to Kokand territory. (to be decided by an UP tribunal)
Kokand Empire releases Floater citizens from its territory to the custody of the Floater Republic.
"I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war."
--The Lord Humungus
Pablo Sanchez wrote:The PSR suggests a peaceful settlement on the following terms:
Krytos Empire pays appropriate reparations for damages caused to Kokand territory. (to be decided by an UP tribunal)
Kokand Empire releases Floater citizens from its territory to the custody of the Floater Republic.
Kokand does not require reparations. We considered the destruction of the offending vessel sufficient. We are quite willing to return the floater citizens.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Thirdfain wrote:
Both our forces acted in a foolish manner. The difference is, when we realized it, we backed down. The Kokand Empire let it's racism and warmongering attitude overwhelm any sense of morality, leading it to commit a brutal act.
The differances is our forces violated no laws in there actions.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Do th Floater Republics agree to these terms. If you do not we will support you, but we would prefer it if this conflict could be resolved without bloodshed.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Krytos Empire pays appropriate reparations for damages caused to Kokand territory. (to be decided by an UP tribunal)
Kokand Empire releases Floater citizens from its territory to the custody of the Floater Republic.
We agree to the terms found here, but with one additional clause:
The Kokand empire renders unto the Floater Republics the remains of the "Black Alice" and the "Thor's Hammer," alongside a publicly broadcast apology for the destruction of the "Black Alice".
The captain of the "Black Alice" acted in a way which was certainly foolish and hotheaded, and did not take interstellar law into account. She was, on the other hand, not morally bankrupt, unlike whoever ordered the destruction of the "Black Alice." We ask for no reparations, for this act- only sincere apologies.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Sea Skimmer wrote:Kokand does not require reparations. We considered the destruction of the offending vessel sufficient. We are quite willing to return the floater citizens.
Excellent. The generosity of the Kokand Empire speaks well of its intention. If the Floaters and Krytos are willing to agree, then we can put an end to this misunderstanding.
Thirdfain wrote:We agree to the terms found here, but with one additional clause:
The Kokand empire renders unto the Floater Republics the remains of the "Black Alice" and the "Thor's Hammer," alongside a publicly broadcast apology for the destruction of the "Black Alice".
The captain of the "Black Alice" acted in a way which was certainly foolish and hotheaded, and did not take interstellar law into account. She was, on the other hand, not morally bankrupt, unlike whoever ordered the destruction of the "Black Alice." We ask for no reparations, for this act- only sincere apologies.
This is unlikely to be accepted and will probably form a barrier to any settlement of this situation. Morality can have overriding powers, such as in the case of the anti-slavery intervention, but in this case it has no such place.
"I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war."
--The Lord Humungus
Thirdfain wrote:
We agree to the terms found here, but with one additional clause:
The Kokand empire renders unto the Floater Republics the remains of the "Black Alice" and the "Thor's Hammer," alongside a publicly broadcast apology for the destruction of the "Black Alice".
The captain of the "Black Alice" acted in a way which was certainly foolish and hotheaded, and did not take interstellar law into account. She was, on the other hand, not morally bankrupt, unlike whoever ordered the destruction of the "Black Alice." We ask for no reparations, for this act- only sincere apologies.
The wrecks will be destroyed after any bodies, not that we expect many, have been recovered. There will be no apology for your Black Alice. At most our government will state its true regret at all loss of life in the defence of its sovereignty.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
