Electoral Sytems vs Majority votes (re:bush)

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-05-14 09:25pm

"Fifty-six percent of Texas voters cast their vote for a Republican congressional candidate last fall, yet Texas sends more Democrats than Republicans to Congress. We're trying to change that," he said.

Seems awfully similar to what happend to Gore. Majority of voters voted for him, yet Dubya stole power.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-14 09:36pm

Ted wrote:
"Fifty-six percent of Texas voters cast their vote for a Republican congressional candidate last fall, yet Texas sends more Democrats than Republicans to Congress. We're trying to change that," he said.
Seems awfully similar to what happend to Gore. Majority of voters voted for him, yet Dubya stole power.

Dude, shut the fuck up. Bush won legally and that's that. Now don't bring that shit up.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-05-14 10:05pm

Stormbringer wrote:Dude, shut the fuck up. Bush won legally and that's that. Now don't bring that shit up.

Then tell the Republicans to shut up!

More people voted for Gore, yet Bush is president.

More people voted for Republican Reps, yet more Demcrat Reps.

What is the difference?

J · Post by J » 2003-05-14 10:11pm

Ted wrote:Then tell the Republicans to shut up!

More people voted for Gore, yet Bush is president.

More people voted for Republican Reps, yet more Demcrat Reps.

What is the difference?

Perhaps I should bring up the fact that only about 40% (IIRC) of Canadians voted Liberal in the last election, yet they have over 50% of the seats in Parliament? Yes I know the electoral systems are different here but could you not argue that ours is a bit screwed up?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-14 10:21pm

Ted wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Dude, shut the fuck up. Bush won legally and that's that. Now don't bring that shit up.
Then tell the Republicans to shut up!

More people voted for Gore, yet Bush is president.

Electoral college. It's how the system works. You might not like it but Bush won legally and fairly. Quit bitching because you don't like it. It's just damn stupid and childish to whine about Bush's victory.

Ted wrote:More people voted for Republican Reps, yet more Demcrat Reps.

What is the difference?

None. It's how the system works.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-14 10:24pm

Hijack split.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-05-14 10:54pm

There is a bit of a difference between .5% of votes and 6%(or more) of votes. .5% isn't even statically valid. It's random noise. Stop your bitching.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-14 10:54pm

Ted wrote:Then tell the Republicans to shut up!

More people voted for Gore, yet Bush is president.

More people voted for Republican Reps, yet more Demcrat Reps.

What is the difference?

Just because the Republicans said something stupid doesn't give you permission to be stupid.

Notice what they said: we think the proportion of party votes should be more properly represented in the legislature but it isn't--and that they'd like to change that.

They never claimed the elections were invalid or illegal--you said Bush stole power.

So it is more half-baked rants and logical fallacies from Ted, oh joy.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-05-14 11:05pm

jmac wrote:
Ted wrote:Then tell the Republicans to shut up!

More people voted for Gore, yet Bush is president.

More people voted for Republican Reps, yet more Demcrat Reps.

What is the difference?
Perhaps I should bring up the fact that only about 40% (IIRC) of Canadians voted Liberal in the last election, yet they have over 50% of the seats in Parliament? Yes I know the electoral systems are different here but could you not argue that ours is a bit screwed up?

Hasn't that happened in American Government before? After all, Republicans dominated both houses of Congresss while Clinton was in the White House.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-05-15 12:50am

Oh, here we go. Welcome back Ted, missed ya. Equating the local Texas political spif to the national Elections is dumb. It borders on a red herring, and remains dumb.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-05-15 11:59am

Ted wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Dude, shut the fuck up. Bush won legally and that's that. Now don't bring that shit up.
Then tell the Republicans to shut up!

More people voted for Gore, yet Bush is president.

More people voted for Republican Reps, yet more Demcrat Reps.

What is the difference?

the difference is that at the time of the Election, according to federal law (ie the constitution Article 2 section 1 and the 12th ammendment) Bush was the legal winner. Gore would have had to break the law to gain power. In Texas the GOP is working within the bounds of the law to change the law via legislation.

Ancalagon · Post by **Ancalagon** » 2003-05-16 03:00pm

The main difference is in the completely different roles each body plays in the American Government. The President is elected by the states to enforce the laws made by the legislature. He serves four year terms, which allows some leeway in decisions. He is not elected to represent the will of the people, but the will of the states (hence the E.C.).

The HoR on the other hand is completely different. Representatives are directly elected by their district to represent the will of the people in that district. They serve 2 year terms which means that as soon as one election is over they must concentrate on the next. Because of this a Rep's decision must be closely tied to the opinions in his district. Any deviation from the will of his district will be not be forgotten by the next year when elections heat up all over again.

Contrast this to the role of president and you will see how the two situations are different.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-16 06:25pm

More people voted for Gore, yet Bush is president.

We know the official totals, but anyone who thinks those totals are accurate is operating under a delusion.

Once you take into account historical patterns of vote fraud in certain states *cough* Illinois and California *cough* and the margin of error in the vote tabulation in each state and county, we really don't know who really won the popular vote.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-16 06:34pm

Glocksman wrote:
More people voted for Gore, yet Bush is president.
We know the official totals, but anyone who thinks those totals are accurate is operating under a delusion.

Once you take into account historical patterns of vote fraud in certain states *cough* Illinois and California *cough* and the margin of error in the vote tabulation in each state and county, we really don't know who really won the popular vote.

This is Ted, Glocksman. Ted is a very delusional man. Get used to it.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-16 06:40pm

To amplify a little more:

Usually, the margin of victory for a winning candidate is large enough to make Daley style 'graveyard precinct' fraud or illegal aliens voting immaterial.
This time, the margin was so close between Gore and Bush that every vote counted.

To avoid a repeat of the 2000 debacle we need to do a few things:

1. Purge the voting rolls.
2. Repeal the 'motor-voter' laws that make vote fraud easier
3. Require proof of identity to be shown at the polling place.
4. Upgrade voting equipment and ballot counting procedures.
5. Keep the news media from projecting winners until all of the polling places in a state have closed.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-05-16 09:45pm

Glocksman wrote: 5. Keep the news media from projecting winners until all of the polling places in a state have closed.

Unless the Government willing to order a news blackout for the whole election period, that ain't going to happen.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-16 10:31pm

4. Upgrade voting equipment and ballot counting procedures.

Good luck. My district has been using the same ancient lever-machines for ages. I think I saw one labelled 'Dewey' and 'Truman'

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » 2003-05-17 11:40pm

Ted wrote:
"Fifty-six percent of Texas voters cast their vote for a Republican congressional candidate last fall, yet Texas sends more Democrats than Republicans to Congress. We're trying to change that," he said.
Seems awfully similar to what happend to Gore. Majority of voters voted for him, yet Dubya stole power.

Its a little different situation, but its legal, live with it. Its not stealing power, remember, this isn't a democracy...

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-18 12:10am

Glocksman wrote:To amplify a little more:

Usually, the margin of victory for a winning candidate is large enough to make Daley style 'graveyard precinct' fraud or illegal aliens voting immaterial.
This time, the margin was so close between Gore and Bush that every vote counted.

To avoid a repeat of the 2000 debacle we need to do a few things:

1. Purge the voting rolls.
2. Repeal the 'motor-voter' laws that make vote fraud easier
3. Require proof of identity to be shown at the polling place.
4. Upgrade voting equipment and ballot counting procedures.
5. Keep the news media from projecting winners until all of the polling places in a state have closed.

Ok, lets do all of those things, but lets also try these things too.

1. Stop ordering state troopers to pull over minorities so they can't vote (Fla.)
2. Stop allowing the son of a Supreme Court Justice to be a lawyer for a Supreme Court Case. (Scalia's son represented Bush, both claimed there was no conflict of interest)

What I'm trying to say here is that both sides really fucked the last election, that both sides did the things listed above and many more, and that while I can't really try and give Gore a legitimate claim to the presidency, I will say that the Bush team pulled just as many election shenanigans as Gore's fellows. Keep that in mind as you attack those who defend Gore.