The Bible as Hate Literature?

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-19 04:32am

I wonder if anyone else has come across this:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=29328

Of course, this should come as almost no surprise to some of the denizens of this board...

Your thoughts and opinions?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-19 04:41am

Of course the Bible is hate literature. It explicitly calls for the murder of all homosexuals!

Hethrir · Post by **Hethrir** » 2003-05-19 04:47am

umm. wow. and i thought my country had problems sometimes. Perhaps they are (either party) forgetting the difference between dis-liking the person and dis-liking the behaviour. I have no problem with homo-sexuals, but choose not to be one as a Christian. See the two greatest commandments:

Matthew 22:37 - 39 wrote: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-19 04:52am

Hethrir wrote:...but choose not to be one as a Christian.

What choice, exactly, was involved with you being heterosexual? Are you saying that homosexual desires were part of your life until this choice?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-19 04:56am

Bible? Hate? The two are inseparable, intertwined to such a degree that they cannot be separated, atleast thats what it looks like to me when I look at the world at large.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-05-19 04:57am

Awkward though his phrasing may be, it's quite clear that the Christian Bible is one that takes a lot of abuse. First and foremost of the commandments is love. Beyond that, Christ said, "I come not to destroy the law [of the Old Testament], but to fulfill it."

A true Christian would not care a whit about what the Old Testament says. Christ himself said it's not important anymore. As Gandhi said, "If only you Christians were more like your Christ."

Hethrir · Post by **Hethrir** » 2003-05-19 04:59am

Oh gosh i knew i should have phrased that differently. sorry, i was reitterating the point that i have to love everyone. and to answer the question, i have always been hetrosexual.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-19 05:05am

SPOOFE wrote: A true Christian would not care a whit about what the Old Testament says. Christ himself said it's not important anymore. As Gandhi said, "If only you Christians were more like your Christ."

Too bad Ghandi wasn't around to chastise Paul. It's his intolerant, hateful ass that defines Christianity for WAY too many people.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-05-19 05:16am

Yeah, well, Paul can blow me.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-19 05:17am

Hethrir wrote:Oh gosh i knew i should have phrased that differently. sorry, i was reitterating the point that i have to love everyone. and to answer the question, i have always been hetrosexual.

Right on.

I have a bad habit of getting defensive when I see "choice" and "homosexuality" in the same sentence. And I was not suggesting were not always heterosexual, just setting up for a debate on the nature of choice and sexuality.

Hethrir · Post by **Hethrir** » 2003-05-19 05:42am

phew! Glad we have a friendly discussion on our hands

JodoForce · Post by **JodoForce** » 2003-05-19 05:47am

SPOOFE wrote:Beyond that, Christ said, "I come not to destroy the law [of the Old Testament], but to fulfill it."

A true Christian would not care a whit about what the Old Testament says. Christ himself said it's not important anymore.

I don't see how the two go together.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-05-19 08:56am

Darth Wong wrote:Of course the Bible is hate literature. It explicitly calls for the murder of all homosexuals!

Then i`m surprised catholic priests did`nt start killing each other.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-05-19 09:17am

Hethrir wrote:umm. wow. and i thought my country had problems sometimes. Perhaps they are (either party) forgetting the difference between dis-liking the person and dis-liking the behaviour. I have no problem with homo-sexuals, but choose not to be one as a Christian. See the two greatest commandments:

Matthew 22:37 - 39 wrote: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

True. The puting to death of homosexuals was a law intended for the theocracy of ancient Israel. It should be noted that a great many sins were punishable by death under that theocracy, including rebellious children. Were those laws enacted here, the US and Canada would have few folks left alive.

JodoForce · Post by **JodoForce** » 2003-05-19 09:25am

Commandments for love and the Golden Rule don't help much when you have twisted ideas of love and what is good. E.g. crusaders that think, 'if I were living my life like that I would rather be killed' a la Alien

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-05-19 10:34am

Hethrir wrote:Perhaps they are (either party) forgetting the difference between dis-liking the person and dis-liking the behaviour.

"Love the sinner, but hate sin" and "God loves the sinner, but hates the sin".

I've heard those lines from intolerant homophobic fundies as a Weasel Word defense against accusations of biggotry quite a few times. I hope that that is not what you are saying, because the difference I see with with this "dis-liking the person and dis-liking the behaviour" type of reasoning is that between a homophobe and a homophobe apologist.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-05-19 10:51am

Man i love this country!

This would be a huge blow to religion if it all works out.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-19 12:20pm

That law is fucking idiotic. When will people learn that if something offends you, IGNORE IT? What these people say in their own churches is their own damn business. Look, I don't like fundies either, but they have a right to say what they believe in. Same as skinheads and black power extremeists. So WHAT if something is anti-homosexual? So WHAT if something is anti-black or anti-white? Fucking stupid-ass legislators need to realize that you can't put a "no-no" label on something and pretend it'll magically go away. You want better gay rights, gays in Canada? Petition your government to improve sexual education! Don't be fucking whiny and try to make laws to imprison someone for saying something against you! How cowardly! Stand up against them and offer a counter argument! Of course they won't listen but there's gonna be others who will.

You all know what? If Johnny Q. Fed tries to silence what I want to say, what I FUCKING BELIEVE IN (no I'm not anti-gay...hypothetical) they can kiss my Bill of Rights loving fat white proud-to-be-American ASS!

I'm glad I don't live in Canada. I see thier government doesn't place as much emphasis on FREE SPEECH as we do.

I should also point out that Canada has laws against Satanism.

Hypocrites.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-19 01:13pm

jegs2 wrote:The puting to death of homosexuals was a law intended for the theocracy of ancient Israel. It should be noted that a great many sins were punishable by death under that theocracy, including rebellious children. Were those laws enacted here, the US and Canada would have few folks left alive.

And yet in Romans, Paul says that homosexuality is STILL considered a capital offense.

Romans 1 26-32 wrote:For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Emphasis mine. The Bible's stance on homosexuality did NOT change with the New Testament.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-05-19 01:34pm

Darth Servo wrote:And yet in Romans, Paul says that homosexuality is STILL considered a capital offense.
Romans 1 26-32 wrote:For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Emphasis mine. The Bible's stance on homosexuality did NOT change with the New Testament.

And if you read the entire Bible, you learn that all sin is worthy of death:

Romans 3:23 - "for all have sinned and fall sort of the glory of God,"

Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death...

However, in the same verse, we read, ...but the gift of God [is] eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
From that, we can see that sin remains what it is --> SIN, and its wages are death. However, the grace of Christ is what brings Salvation, and through Christ, sin no longer holds the power to condemn. Does that mean that we can sin all we want and not expect punishment? No, there are temporal laws in effect that punish such crimes as stealing, murdering, purgery and the like. Paul also viewed things under Mosaic Law, which did condemn homosexuality (along with many other "capital" offenses), although I don't know whether or not Israel (under Roman occupation) continued to stone homosexuals and kids who rebelled against their parents to death.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-19 01:38pm

Biblical intolerance aside, I have to agree with Ultraviolence on this law. Where do you draw the line in limitations on speech? You want to keep a nazi quiet? That's all well and good, but what happens when bigot gets redefined to include you?

Hobot · Post by **Hobot** » 2003-05-19 02:03pm

I think certain aspects of this law are good, but some just go over the top.

And yet in Romans, Paul says that homosexuality is STILL considered a capital offense.

You should read the whole passage. It was God who made them turn against their nature. These people were originally heterosexuals, so for them to engage in homosexual practices was unnatural. The same would be the case if homosexuals were to engage in heterosexual practices, that would be unnatural for them. God did this because they turned away from Christianity, became pagans, had heterosexual orgies, and worshiped images they had made.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-19 02:05pm

jegs2 wrote:And if you read the entire Bible, you learn that all sin is worthy of death:

Romans 3:23 - "for all have sinned and fall sort of the glory of God,"

Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death...

However, in the same verse, we read, ...but the gift of God [is] eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
From that, we can see that sin remains what it is --> SIN, and its wages are death. However, the grace of Christ is what brings Salvation, and through Christ, sin no longer holds the power to condemn. Does that mean that we can sin all we want and not expect punishment? No, there are temporal laws in effect that punish such crimes as stealing, murdering, purgery and the like. Paul also viewed things under Mosaic Law, which did condemn homosexuality (along with many other "capital" offenses), although I don't know whether or not Israel (under Roman occupation) continued to stone homosexuals and kids who rebelled against their parents to death.

The POINT was that the Bible's stance on homosexuality did NOT change with the New Testament. Therefore, you can't say the OT's harsh laws on this issue don't apply since this particular law clearly DID NOT CHANGE.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-05-19 04:27pm

Darth Servo wrote:The POINT was that the Bible's stance on homosexuality did NOT change with the New Testament. Therefore, you can't say the OT's harsh laws on this issue don't apply since this particular law clearly DID NOT CHANGE.

The temporal penalty for homosexuality and other sins in the OT was in force only for the Theocracy of Israel. Read: The penalty does not apply outside the Kingdom/Theocracy of Israel (which no longer exists). Sin remains sin, regardless of the temporal punishments of that sin. Yes, the Bible yet maintains that homosexuality is a sin. Moreover, it maintains that anyone having sexual relations with one not his or her spouse is also a sin. What I maintained and yet maintain is that the punishment for sins levied in the OT were intended only for the Theocracy/Kingdom of Israel, and since that nation no longer exists, then those penalties hold no sway.

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-05-19 05:53pm

back that up, give us chapter and verse that supports that claim.

As has already been quoted, the NT and Paulio says otherwise

regardless fine the bible isnt hate literature towards the gay man, it still is towards women, blacks, and all nonwhite non jews