8472 Planet Killer vs Death Star

[thecreech]

Although it is obvious that the Death Star has more firepower compared to the bioship planet killer, it should not be ignored that 9 bioships destroyed 8 planets in 5 months, and the Death Star destroyed 1. Not to mention that 8472 was faster. They flew in, fired, flew out, the planet turned to lava and blew apart. The Death Star took like what 30 minutes to come into firing range. The fact that the Borg planet exploded from the inside out, it created a shockwave that destroyed ships around it. If SD were there they could not go to hyperspace, due to safty protocals.

Would you stop with the DS only destroyed 1 planet cop-out. Just because you only saw it destroy 1 doesn't mean it can only destroy 1. The empire was using it to destroy the "REBELS" Not every planet they saw. The rebels are much harder to find than the borg thats why 8472 was able to destroy 8 planets but it took them 5 MONTHS TO DO IT!

Oh yeah here it is again

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... hp?t=4769

[Anarchist Bunny]

The Enterprise-E was hit like 2 or 3 times by the Cube. That bioship that was damaged fought 15 Cubes, even if it wasn’t alone, It would have been heavily pounded on, and it still was regenerating.

Nothing compared to what a ISD can deal out. The 256 megaton figure is an VERY generous high end figure. ONE shot from a ISD is 52.083 times more powerful than what all those cubes can do combined in one shot. Using S8472vsCubes as a measure of power isn't going to get you anywhere, I've already showed you that an ISD can take many many many more before it goes down, and a hell of a lot more with out even begining to dent it's shielding.
[/quote]

[beyond hope]

I know everyone else has already owned this guy, but I've been off the board for a while and I need the practice...

The Death Star is obviously the superior planet destroyer. It can survive being in close proximity to a violently exploding planet. This is more than can be said for a Borg cube, and bioships (which CAN be damaged or destroyed by Borg disruptors or modified Federation weapons) have not demonstrated this capability. The Death Star mounts tens of thousands of heavy turbolasers for defense against attacking warships: the bioships appear to have one main gun in their nose. The Death Star is capable of functioning as a supply and logistics point for a major fleet: bioships are not. The Death Star also carries substantial ground forces (millions of troops and their supporting units) for launching a planetary assault: bioships do not. The sole weakness of the Death Star is a 2-meter wide exhaust port (that only a Jedi successfully hit,) and DS II even managed to do away with that minor weakness. Bioships are actually vulnerable to NANITES!!!

Once again Sov shows how he earned his title.

[Darth Servo]

AMAZING. He actually responded!!! Its the end of the world.

No evidence. You want to believe that the bioships survived the destruction of the borg planet, but you have nothing backing up that claim.

Your right, there is no evidence to back this up, however, if this is true, then it conferms the exsistance of more than one Planet Killer.

So what if they have more than one planet killer? Thier PK weapon still requires nine ships to fly in a certain formation for several seconds which makes them extremely vulnerable to attack from anyone with brains (IOW, anyone not in the Trek universe )

Because the 8472 are weaker than the Vong.

Were is your proof of that?

The fact that the New Republic and/or Empire is superior to 8472 and the Vong are about on par with the NR/Empire. S8472

They have shields that can block a certain amount of energy from borg attacks. Big deal. So did the E-E in ST:FC. Once again you take a given ability (resistance to borg weapons) and assume that it must be infinite. Please justify this assumption.

The Enterprise-E was hit like 2 or 3 times by the Cube. That bioship that was damaged fought 15 Cubes, even if it wasn’t alone, It would have been heavily pounded on, and it still was regenerating.

Once again, you make a claim without any supporting evidence. How do you know the bioship that Voyager met was the ONLY one at the battle.

Do you have any idea how transparent your ridiculous assumpstions are? Did you really think anyone wouldn't notice this?

So if two bioships were to fight each other you really think that neither would win and the fight would go on indefinitely?

Nope, they would last a long time in battle, but one would been taken down in the end. If two bears fight in the woods, even if they are the same strength, one will eventually prevail.

Exactly, which is my whole point! Don't you get it yet? Any given defensive technology has limits! You can't just spout treknobabble and assume its infinite or equal to similar sounding technobabble. Your original statement was that 8472 "should have a defense against their own types of weapons" and therefore be able to handle the Vong just because they both use "biotech", remember?

Do I really need to remind you what you're debating about?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Although it is obvious that the Death Star has more firepower compared to the bioship planet killer, it should not be ignored that 9 bioships destroyed 8 planets in 5 months, and the Death Star destroyed 1.

What an idiot.

5 mounths is roughly 150 days. That's a 18.75 days per planet destruction. The DS planned to destroy at least 2 planets a day. The DS can achieve a planet killing rate 37.5 faster than the 8472 one.

[Darth Servo]

The Enterprise-E was hit like 2 or 3 times by the Cube. That bioship that was damaged fought 15 Cubes, even if it wasn’t alone, It would have been heavily pounded on, and it still was regenerating.

Once again, you make a claim without any supporting evidence. How do you know the bioship that Voyager met was the ONLY one at the battle.

Allow me to edit this statement since I misread what Sovereign said.

How do you know that one bio ship was "heavily pounded on". We saw NOTHING of the battle. Sure it took a few hits, but there is exactly ZERO information about how many times the ship was hit, so you think its OK to assume it was "heavily pounded on"?

[Sovereign]

The rebels are much harder to find than the borg thats why 8472 was able to destroy 8 planets but it took them 5 MONTHS TO DO IT!

The Scene was, a Battle and then the report. 8 Planets destroyed, 312 vessels disabled, 4,000,621 Borg eliminated. It had to have been 8 Planets Destroyed in one battle, not in 5 months.

Pic from the battle.

The Death Star is obviously the superior planet destroyer. It can survive being in close proximity to a violently exploding planet.

The ringed explosion can be seen after the Planets destruction, the DS could not have been pounded on by any such debris. Compared to the Borg planet's destruction.

The Death Star mounts tens of thousands of heavy turbolasers for defense against attacking warships: the bioships appear to have one main gun in their nose.

Could they hit a swarm of fast moving targets? What would they do if S8472 came out behind the superlaser, or fired on the superlaser itself before the DS could start shooting? Are Lasers even capable of hurting a Bioship? Bioships are ALMOST immune to energy attacks. Say what you want about how much energy is flowing threw those Lasers, but it is still an energy weapon.

The Death Star is capable of functioning as a supply and logistics point for a major fleet: bioships are not.

The DS is a sitting duck easy to hit target, Bioships are not.

The Death Star also carries substantial ground forces (millions of troops and their supporting units) for launching a planetary assault: bioships do not.

Bioships are made to destroy worlds not conqure them. Besides, howmany good men went out with DS 1 and 2 because of the amount they can hold?

The sole weakness of the Death Star is a 2-meter wide exhaust port (that only a Jedi successfully hit,) and DS II even managed to do away with that minor weakness. Bioships are actually vulnerable to NANITES!!!

Whats the big deal about Nanoprobes? Who said SW technology cant be affected by Nanoprobes?

Once again, you make a claim without any supporting evidence. How do you know the bioship that Voyager met was the ONLY one at the battle.

How do you know it wasnt? Besides, I put even if it wasnt alone. It would have been hit several times at least by a Borg cube.

So what if they have more than one planet killer? Thier PK weapon still requires nine ships to fly in a certain formation for several seconds which makes them extremely vulnerable to attack from anyone with brains (IOW, anyone not in the Trek universe )

Nine ships compared to a GIANT MOON. How could you fire on a target when you have no idea when it will come or where it will come from. I am sure in the time it takes to destroy the planet, an ISD could destroy the planet killer, but it would take time to come into range target (manually) and fire. The PK could have already shot its blast, the "Chain Reatcion" happening already, then the Planet Blows up. Could they work fast enough?

5 mounths is roughly 150 days. That's a 18.75 days per planet destruction. The DS planned to destroy at least 2 planets a day. The DS can achieve a planet killing rate 37.5 faster than the 8472 one.

Debatable.

[Ghost Rider]

In the spirit that you basically evade, weave and misdirect.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12237
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12143
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8862
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7663
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=6131
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=4769

Please go through this first dumbass...

And you presume quite a bit in your answers above and hell completely change subjects on a couple answers.

[Master of Ossus]

The rebels are much harder to find than the borg thats why 8472 was able to destroy 8 planets but it took them 5 MONTHS TO DO IT!

The Scene was, a Battle and then the report. 8 Planets destroyed, 312 vessels disabled, 4,000,621 Borg eliminated. It had to have been 8 Planets Destroyed in one battle, not in 5 months.

Pic from the battle.

First of all:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8920
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12237

Acknowledge your defeat, weakling.

Having said that, we don't know what definition of the word "destroyed" the Borg were using. Judging from the amount of damage the S-8472 bioships cranked out, it's not even comparable to a BDZ in SW. More importantly, we don't know how many groups of bioships it took to do this. It could have been one, a hundred, or five thousand. Moreover, if you extrapolate the rate of destruction of worlds that the DS was capable of (namely, three in a couple days, counting Yavin IV which the DS demonstrated the ability to destroy even though the station itself was destroyed just prior to its opening fire), you'll find that its rate of destruction was VASTLY in excess of the S-8472 bioship groups.

The ringed explosion can be seen after the Planets destruction, the DS could not have been pounded on by any such debris. Compared to the Borg planet's destruction.

WTF? The ANH novelization describes the DS being hit by debris from the planet it destroyed, which is confirmed the film itself. The "ring-shaped" explosions did NOT contain ALL of the debris left over by the destruction of Alderaan, which is visible BOTH in the shots of the destruction of the planet, and later in Han Solo's flight through the asteroid field left behind by the destruction of the planet. Your statement makes no sense.

The Death Star mounts tens of thousands of heavy turbolasers for defense against attacking warships: the bioships appear to have one main gun in their nose.

Could they hit a swarm of fast moving targets? What would they do if S8472 came out behind the superlaser, or fired on the superlaser itself before the DS could start shooting? Are Lasers even capable of hurting a Bioship? Bioships are ALMOST immune to energy attacks. Say what you want about how much energy is flowing threw those Lasers, but it is still an energy weapon.

Can anybody count the number of fallacies in this statement? I see numerous appeals to ignorance and extrapolations to infinity. Sovereign, can you make one post without including a logical fallacy?

The Death Star is capable of functioning as a supply and logistics point for a major fleet: bioships are not.

The DS is a sitting duck easy to hit target, Bioships are not.

Too bad the DS is so heavily armored that not even a fleet of ships firing weapons in excess of 200GT can harm it. A bioship cluster would be COMPLETELY destroyed by even a proximity hit from such a weapon, given their laughable impact-resistance as shown in the collision they had with the Borg cube.

The Death Star also carries substantial ground forces (millions of troops and their supporting units) for launching a planetary assault: bioships do not.

Bioships are made to destroy worlds not conqure them. Besides, howmany good men went out with DS 1 and 2 because of the amount they can hold?

Completely irrelevant. DS had additional features (including the ground troops) that were not necessary for destroying a planet, but were useful to have around. The DS prototype demonstrates conclusively that the DS does not need such features in order to accomplish its primary mission (destroying planets).

The sole weakness of the Death Star is a 2-meter wide exhaust port (that only a Jedi successfully hit,) and DS II even managed to do away with that minor weakness. Bioships are actually vulnerable to NANITES!!!

Whats the big deal about Nanoprobes? Who said SW technology cant be affected by Nanoprobes?

[groans]

Once again, you make a claim without any supporting evidence. How do you know the bioship that Voyager met was the ONLY one at the battle.

How do you know it wasnt? Besides, I put even if it wasnt alone. It would have been hit several times at least by a Borg cube.

Stop appealing to ignorance, dumbass. Moreover, who cares that it would have been hit several times at least by a Borg cube, and how do you arrive at that conclusion?

So what if they have more than one planet killer? Thier PK weapon still requires nine ships to fly in a certain formation for several seconds which makes them extremely vulnerable to attack from anyone with brains (IOW, anyone not in the Trek universe )

Nine ships compared to a GIANT MOON. How could you fire on a target when you have no idea when it will come or where it will come from. I am sure in the time it takes to destroy the planet, an ISD could destroy the planet killer, but it would take time to come into range target (manually) and fire. The PK could have already shot its blast, the "Chain Reatcion" happening already, then the Planet Blows up. Could they work fast enough?

I should point out that ISD's have been shown to be able to accurately target ships from OUTSIDE OF A FUCKING SYSTEM, and that the DS is far less vulnerable to attack, since it can destroy a planet from numerous planetary diameters away (much further outside of the range of planetary defenses in ST, shown in BoBW to be piddly).

5 mounths is roughly 150 days. That's a 18.75 days per planet destruction. The DS planned to destroy at least 2 planets a day. The DS can achieve a planet killing rate 37.5 faster than the 8472 one.

Debatable.

OOOOOH. It's "debatable." Debate it, then. Post evidence for why you feel the DS was not capable of this, given that the prototype DS fired NUMEROUS times within the space of a few minutes. The DS's rate of destruction was limited by its inability to find targets, rather than by its rate of fire and speed.

[Ender]

The Scene was, a Battle and then the report. 8 Planets destroyed, 312 vessels disabled, 4,000,621 Borg eliminated. It had to have been 8 Planets Destroyed in one battle, not in 5 months.

Pic from the battle.

So there are 8 habitable planets in a single system now? Jesus, go grow a brain. Even if the borg don't need to be in the habitable ring, they still meed a solid planet and not a gas giant.

The ringed explosion can be seen after the Planets destruction, the DS could not have been pounded on by any such debris. Compared to the Borg planet's destruction.

How exactly does a ring mean it wasn't pounded with debris?

Could they hit a swarm of fast moving targets?

They were hitting X wings, and *472 ships are 200 some meters long and not very fast.

What would they do if S8472 came out behind the superlaser, or fired on the superlaser itself before the DS could start shooting?

The shields would absorb the shot and the 8's would be vaporized by the engine wash.

Are Lasers even capable of hurting a Bioship?

Why the hell wouldn't they? THe fact that Trek weapons didn't hurt them reflects on the weapons power, not it's type

Bioships are ALMOST immune to energy attacks. Say what you want about how much energy is flowing threw those Lasers, but it is still an energy weapon.

And boships get hurt by borg disruptors which are still energy weapons. So the energy in the TL does matter.

The DS is a sitting duck easy to hit target,

But nigh on impossible to damage

Bioships are not.

Bullshit

Bioships are made to destroy worlds not conqure them.

No, one specific type of ship working with others can destroy a planet. We know nothing about the purpose of the others

how many good men went out with DS 1 and 2 because of the amount they can hold?

a few million in a galaxy of quadrillions. In other words: not alot.

Whats the big deal about Nanoprobes?

If you knew anything about nanotech, you'd understand why it is so fucking stupid. Heres a clue: the smaller something is, the more easily destroyed it is.

Who said SW technology cant be affected by Nanoprobes?

Prove it can

How do you know it wasnt? Besides, I put even if it wasnt alone. It would have been hit several times at least by a Borg cube.

Appeal to ignorance

Nine ships compared to a GIANT MOON. How could you fire on a target when you have no idea when it will come or where it will come from.

Considering that the movements of 8472 ships can be tracked before they arrive...

I am sure in the time it takes to destroy the planet, an ISD could destroy the planet killer, but it would take time to come into range target (manually) and fire.

They have autotargeting computers you fuckwit

The PK could have already shot its blast, the "Chain Reatcion" happening already, then the Planet Blows up. Could they work fast enough?

Fortunatly, the existance of this thing called a PLANETARY SHIELD means that the 8's don't kill the planet.

Debatable.

It's fucking math, for it to be debatable you have to show his numbers are wrong.

As always, address my points.

[Ender]

Your right, there is no evidence to back this up, however, if this is true, then it conferms the exsistance of more than one Planet Killer.

Which matters little in the Vs as shields would make the thing useless

Were is your proof of that?

How about the fact that the 8's have never demonstrated anything close to the standard firepower of the Vong?

The Enterprise-E was hit like 2 or 3 times by the Cube. That bioship that was damaged fought 15 Cubes, even if it wasn’t alone, It would have been heavily pounded on, and it still was regenerating.

It might be impressive if borg weapons and the EEs shields weren't shit

Nope, they would last a long time in battle, but one would been taken down in the end. If two bears fight in the woods, even if they are the same strength, one will eventually prevail.

Congrats, you just proved yourself wrong

[Sovereign]

So there are 8 habitable planets in a single system now? Jesus, go grow a brain. Even if the borg don't need to be in the habitable ring, they still meed a solid planet and not a gas giant.

Who said the Borg require habitable worlds? It has been shown that drones can survive in space, I am sure they could survive on a not atmosphere planet. Plus the borg said, "Matrix 010, grid 19." there is no evidence to say it was in one solar system.

[/quote]They were hitting X wings, and *472 ships are 200 some meters long and not very fast.

Simple Anti-aircraft or in this case, Anti-spacecraft.

The shields would absorb the shot and the 8's would be vaporized by the engine wash.

Are shields on 24 - 7? The X and Y Wing fighter seemed to come extremely close to the DS, were her shields on then?

If you knew anything about nanotech, you'd understand why it is so fucking stupid. Heres a clue: the smaller something is, the more easily destroyed it is.

Ok, give me a cure for AIDS, or SARS, or ANTHRAX.

Prove it can

Prove it can't

Considering that the movements of 8472 ships can be tracked before they arrive...

How? By the singularity? That doesnt meen anything, S8472 could just come out fight from all directions and then have the PK come out in the Chaos.

Fortunatly, the existance of this thing called a PLANETARY SHIELD means that the 8's don't kill the planet.

There is no way of knowing what the affect planet shields have on the PK.

[NecronLord]

Another Strike by the Rabid Trekkie Gureilla army of one.

[Ender]

Who said the Borg require habitable worlds? It has been shown that drones can survive in space, I am sure they could survive on a not atmosphere planet.

Read my fucking post before responding. You will not have 8 solid planets in a system. They would die on gas giants from the pressure, and moons != planets.

Plus the borg said, "Matrix 010, grid 19." there is no evidence to say it was in one solar system.

Which also disproves your claim that it was one big battle. A serious question here, since it will change how I respond to you in the future: Are you retarded?

Simple Anti-aircraft or in this case, Anti-spacecraft.

Way to totally dodge the point. You wanted to know if they could nail small fast moving targets; I responded that they can, and that bioships were anything but small and fast moving. You respond with that bit of nonsense. So I'll state it again: They take out small manuverable craft with turbolasers.

Are shields on 24 - 7?

Particle shields are on 24-7. a chain reaction requires an interaction of particles therefore a particle shield will stop it.

The X and Y Wing fighter seemed to come extremely close to the DS, were her shields on then?

Energy no, particle yes. And shields are hull hugging, so of course they got close.

Ok, give me a cure for AIDS, or SARS, or ANTHRAX.

1) Red herring
2) Nanotech is nowhere close to curing anything.
3) Red herring
4) My point remains the same, military application of nanotech as a weapon and not it's use in the fabrication of other materials (IE carbon nanotubes) is pointless because nanotech is easily destroyed
5) Red Fucking Herring

Prove it can't

You made the claim, you must now prove it dipshit. Is this too hard to understand?

How? By the singularity? That doesnt meen anything, S8472 could just come out fight from all directions and then have the PK come out in the Chaos.

Yes dumbass, there is. A chain reaction has to come in contact with the material to begin. A shield stops that contact. Therefore no reaction. Therefore you are a moron.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Damn it, I'm never around when he posts his bullshit and I always have to settle for sloppy seconds.

I think Ender handled it quite nicely so, I'll just wait for his next attempt.

[Joe Momma]

Ender's fucking up Sovereign's shit quite well, but I have to throw in a couple of comments.

They were hitting X wings, and *472 ships are 200 some meters long and not very fast.

Simple Anti-aircraft or in this case, Anti-spacecraft.

Um, Ender says the DS can hit small maneuverable objects and Sovereign "counters" by pointing out exactly how the DS does it? I second the question: Sovereign, are you retarded?

If you knew anything about nanotech, you'd understand why it is so fucking stupid. Heres a clue: the smaller something is, the more easily destroyed it is.

Ok, give me a cure for AIDS, or SARS, or ANTHRAX.

"Cure" vs. "destroy" are two entirely different things. I could effectively destroy samples of any of the above by dumping them in bleach or boiling water.

Prove it can

Prove it can't

And then Sovereign demands Ender prove a negative. Jesus Fucking Christ.

-- Joe Momma

[beyond hope]

Since Sov has two posts up since I last answered him, I'm just going to combine the two for simplicity's sake.

First off, while you're getting your ass kicked in this thread how about tackling these ones too...

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12237
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12143
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8862
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7663
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=6131
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=4769

heh.

The Scene was, a Battle (emphasis mine - Beyond Hope) and then the report. 8 Planets destroyed, 312 vessels disabled, 4,000,621 Borg eliminated. It had to have been 8 Planets Destroyed in one battle(emphasis mine again - Beyond Hope), not in 5 months.

>>Irrelevant Pic Snipped. Resistance is Futile. -Beyond Hope <<

Who said the Borg require habitable worlds? It has been shown that drones can survive in space, I am sure they could survive on a not atmosphere planet. Plus the borg said, "Matrix 010, grid 19." there is no evidence to say it was in one solar system.(emphasis again mine - Beyond Hope)

First- The drones can survive in a vaccuum, however cubes have a breathable atmosphere as demonstrated by the fact that Starfleet crew have beamed onto them on several occasions without explosively decompressing. Further, when the drones begin assimilating the Enterprise-E in First Contact they altered the life support settings. Evidently the Borg do have a certain climate they find more comfortable, or such a change would be "irrelevant." My presumption would be that continuing to function in a vaccuum drains a drone's energy supplies at a faster rate. Whatever the reason, Borg cubes do maintain an atmosphere and the Borg have in the past altered the atmosphere of a ship they're assimilating.

Second- Where do you think the raw materials to build the cubes are coming from? Borg require planets as a source of raw materials. Whether Borg worlds serve other functions or whether they are merely massive stripmines has not (to my knowledge) been established by the show. However, the simple fact remains that the Borg cannot simply build cubes out of nothing. This point is substantianted by two simple facts: one, that the Borg cubes are attempting to defend the planet the 8-balls are shown destroying, and two that the collective takes notice of the loss of 8 worlds. If the planets were of no importance to the Borg, they would be "irrelevant" and neither defended nor their loss remarked on.

Third- You're alternately trying to claim that this incursion was one battle and then claiming it wasn't. Which, exactly, is it?

Fourth- This is not the first time that the "Borg don't need planets" argument has been tried on this board, and by smarter trolls than you.

The ringed explosion can be seen after the Planets destruction, the DS could not have been pounded on by any such debris. Compared to the Borg planet's destruction.

You missed the chunks of the planet also seen speeding away from the explosion in all directions in that scene? Or maybe you missed the implications of the Millenium Falcon coming out of lightspeed right into the middle of a debris field? The Death Star was without a doubt hit by debris from the blast and was undamaged. Deal with it.

Could they hit a swarm of fast moving targets? What would they do if S8472 came out behind the superlaser, or fired on the superlaser itself before the DS could start shooting? Are Lasers even capable of hurting a Bioship? Bioships are ALMOST immune to energy attacks. Say what you want about how much energy is flowing threw those Lasers, but it is still an energy weapon.

Last time I checked, Borg disruptors were energy weapons. An unknown number of hits from those left a bioship drifting in space while it healed. The heavy turbolasers on the Death Star's surface are much more powerful than a Borg disruptor. They are capable of hitting a 12.5 meter long X-wing fighter. Are you seriously trying to claim that a 200-odd meter bioship (approximately 16 times larger) will be more difficult to hit? Also I note that you never replied to my comment about the difference in the number of weapons the Death Star carries vs. the number on a bioship (tens of thousands to 1.) Assuming only 10,000 guns and assuming only a quarter can target the bioships at any one time, that's still 2,500 turbolasers for the 8-balls to try and avoid. In the words of Trinity from The Matrix:

"Dodge THIS!"

The DS is a sitting duck easy to hit target, Bioships are not.

The Death Star has shields capable of surviving the impact of high-velocity debris from an exploding world. Bioships do not. It can thus weather attacks with impunity while sheltering an entire Imperial fleet under it's guns. Let's see 9 200-meter long bioships do that.

Bioships are made to destroy worlds not conqure them. Besides, howmany good men went out with DS 1 and 2 because of the amount they can hold?

Thank you for agreeing with me. The Death Star is designed to do more than just detonate planets. If you needed a planet occupied the Death Star can do it with ease. The bioships can only destroy planets, not conquer and hold them.

As to the second half, millions: a drop in the bucket compared to how many in the ST galaxy would die trying to oppose the might of the Empire

Whats the big deal about Nanoprobes? Who said SW technology cant be affected by Nanoprobes?

You don't understand the problem involved in a tiny little machines the size of one of your cells successfully destroying a 200 meter long warship? The explosion of the torpedo warhead alone should have destroyed the nanites. If that didn't do it, they should never have survived impact on the bioships. Apparently bioships have no resistance to small, fast-moving physical objects since not only did the nanoprobes survive but they penetrated the hull as well. This would never happen with a Star Wars ship: the nanites would hit the particle shields harmlessly and be destroyed.

How do you know it wasnt? Besides, I put even if it wasnt alone. It would have been hit several times at least by a Borg cube.

Why does this bit about the bioship having been pounded on stink? Oh wait, I know... Sov pulled it out of his ass. There is no visual of the battle in which that bioship was damaged and you have NO basis to assume it was "pounded on" or even "hit several times."

Nine ships compared to a GIANT MOON. How could you fire on a target when you have no idea when it will come or where it will come from. I am sure in the time it takes to destroy the planet, an ISD could destroy the planet killer, but it would take time to come into range target (manually) and fire. The PK could have already shot its blast, the "Chain Reatcion" happening already, then the Planet Blows up. Could they work fast enough?

-and-

How? By the singularity? That doesnt meen anything, S8472 could just come out fight from all directions and then have the PK come out in the Chaos.

-and-

There is no way of knowing what the affect planet shields have on the PK.

Hmmm... let's see. First off, the Empire has sensors that can detect the 8-balls' little entryway as soon as it opens. An ISD can accelerate at several thousand G's or perform a quick hyperspace jump to the attacker's position. I'd say time will not be a problem in intercepting the 8-balls. Since they have to get through the shield to start the planet-destroying chain reaction and since they don't have the raw firepower to do that, though, the ISD captain's only worry will be in stomping all the roaches before they can scurry back to fluidic space.

5 mounths is roughly 150 days. That's a 18.75 days per planet destruction. The DS planned to destroy at least 2 planets a day. The DS can achieve a planet killing rate 37.5 faster than the 8472 one.

Debatable.

So debate it. Debate the other 6 threads you've run away from too while you're at it (I'm told that suffering builds character, after all. )

[Joe Momma]

First off, while you're getting your ass kicked in this thread how about tackling these ones too...

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12237
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12143
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8862
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7663
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=6131
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=4769

heh.

You fucker. I laughed so hard reading that assemblage of Sovreignity that I started coughing up blood.

-- Joe Momma

[beyond hope]

First off, while you're getting your ass kicked in this thread how about tackling these ones too...

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12237
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12143
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8862
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7663
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=6131
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=4769

heh.

You fucker. I laughed so hard reading that assemblage of Sovreignity that I started coughing up blood.

-- Joe Momma

I cannot take credit for another man's work: Ghostrider had posted "The Complete Works of Sovereign" earlier in this thread and I merely pasted it as yet another "gentle" reminder that he has other messes to attend to. I got a real kick out of it too, especially going back and seeing that he's being trounced on a lot of the same points as he did in his FIRST 8-balls vs. the Empire thread.

[Darth Servo]

I cannot take credit for another man's work: Ghostrider had posted "The Complete Works of Sovereign" earlier in this thread and I merely pasted it as yet another "gentle" reminder that he has other messes to attend to. I got a real kick out of it too, especially going back and seeing that he's being trounced on a lot of the same points as he did in his FIRST 8-balls vs. the Empire thread.

Then give the credit where it belongs. I posted that list back on page two of this thread.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... c&start=25

[Darth Servo]

The Scene was, a Battle and then the report. 8 Planets destroyed, 312 vessels disabled, 4,000,621 Borg eliminated. It had to have been 8 Planets Destroyed in one battle, not in 5 months.

No evidence. But then, such leaps in logic are typical of you. Sovereign

The ringed explosion can be seen after the Planets destruction, the DS could not have been pounded on by any such debris.

Why not? We see approximately 5 seconds of explosion. The DS was hit AFTER the scene changes. Its in the ANH novelization. The DS was six planetary diameters from Alderaan.

Compared to the Borg planet's destruction.

You mean the one that was MUCH SLOWER (and therefore much lower energy) and STILL obliterated two cubes?

Could [the DS] hit a swarm of fast moving targets?

Considering the fact that they barely missed smaller much faster moving fighters, I'd say a 200 meter bioship would be no problem.

What would they do if S8472 came out behind the superlaser?

Um, you are aware that the DS has large turbolasers ALL OVER its ENTIRE SURFACE aren't you. The super laser is NOT the only weapon on the DS you retard.

or fired on the superlaser itself before the DS could start shooting?

Considering the fact that it took at least 10 seconds for the 8472 weaopn to fire while TL only take less than one, I'd say YOU need to come up with a better strategy.

Are Lasers even capable of hurting a Bioship? Bioships are ALMOST immune to energy attacks. Say what you want about how much energy is flowing threw those Lasers, but it is still an energy weapon.

No evidence that Bioships are "almost immune" to energy weapons. I already demonstrated that this assumption is pure crap and you just repeat it again. They survived a few impacts from borg weapons therefore you assume they must be "almost immune"? Grow a brain. Borg disruptors DID damage a bioship in that 15 cube battle early in the episode, remember? Therefore bioships are clearly NOT "almost immune" to those weapons. I can't believe that someone this stupid can actually use a computer.

The DS is a sitting duck easy to hit target, Bioships are not.

They ARE easy targets compared to highly agile 10 meter fighters which the DS barely missed. The DS has a shield that can withstand a planetary explosion while Bioship shields couldn't even withstand a slow colission with a cube.

Bioships are made to destroy worlds not conqure them. Besides, howmany good men went out with DS 1 and 2 because of the amount they can hold?

A miniscule fraction of the personnel in a galaxy spanning empire.

The sole weakness of the Death Star is a 2-meter wide exhaust port (that only a Jedi successfully hit,) and DS II even managed to do away with that minor weakness. Bioships are actually vulnerable to NANITES!!!

Whats the big deal about Nanoprobes?

Exactly, there's no big deal with nanoprobes proving how pathetic S8472 is that they can be destroyed by them.

Who said SW technology cant be affected by Nanoprobes?

Burden of proof fallacy. YOU need to prove that SW tech CAN be affected. There is no real life precedent for your micro machines being the unstopable doomsday weapon that they are in ST.
Read more here

Once again, you make a claim without any supporting evidence. How do you know the bioship that Voyager met was the ONLY one at the battle.

How do you know it wasnt?

I don't NEED to know for sure. YOU are the one making a claim, therefore YOU need to provide the evidence for that claim.

Besides, I put even if it wasnt alone. It would have been hit several times at least by a Borg cube.

I added a second post to relfect this. You seem to have ignored it (again). Since borg weapons are peashooters compared to SW TLs this doesn't prove ANYTHING.

Nine ships compared to a GIANT MOON. How could you fire on a target when you have no idea when it will come or where it will come from.

It takes about ten seconds to fire the 8472 planet killer. It takes less than two to detect the bioships and fire the turbolasers. Do the math.

I am sure in the time it takes to destroy the planet, an ISD could destroy the planet killer, but it would take time to come into range target (manually) and fire.

And WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE THAT SW CAP SHIPS FIRE MANUALLY???
http://h4h.com/louis/weap1.html#targeting

The PK could have already shot its blast, the "Chain Reatcion" happening already, then the Planet Blows up. Could they work fast enough?

10 seconds for 8472 to fire. Two seconds for the ISD/DS to fire their TL turrets. You figure it out, if you can.

5 mounths is roughly 150 days. That's a 18.75 days per planet destruction. The DS planned to destroy at least 2 planets a day. The DS can achieve a planet killing rate 37.5 faster than the 8472 one.

Debatable.

Yes, it IS debatable, therefore you have NO BUSINESS claiming the 8 planets were all killed in one battle. [/url]

[Darth Servo]

Who said the Borg require habitable worlds? It has been shown that drones can survive in space, I am sure they could survive on a not atmosphere planet.

They can survive for maybe an hour in space so they can survive indefinately in space with no atmosphere? Then why do CUBES have an atmosphere? Wouldn't life support be a waste of energy if drones don't require one? Do they provide one just so the enemy Fed away teams would be able to complete their missions on the cube? Face it. Once again you take a known ability and extrapolate it to infinity. Unfortunately such stupidity has come to be expected from you.

Plus the borg said, "Matrix 010, grid 19." there is no evidence to say it was in one solar system.

Right Just like there is NO EVIDENCE that it was all in one battle. GET IT YET. Solar systems are several light years apart requiring several DAYS to get from one to another with warp drive. Therefore if the destroyed planets were not all in the same solar system, it COULD NOT have been all in one battle. Thank you for helping to refute your own stupid argument.

They were hitting X wings, and *472 ships are 200 some meters long and not very fast.

Simple Anti-aircraft or in this case, Anti-spacecraft.

SW "anti-spacecraft" guns are still more powerful than borg weapons which are KNOWN to be able to damage cubes. If a weak weapon can damage a bioship, then a much more powerful one will certainly be able to.

Are shields on 24 - 7?

During a battle they sure are.

The X and Y Wing fighter seemed to come extremely close to the DS, were her shields on then?

SW ship particle shileds are HULL HUGGING. Watch the films, esp TPM where we momentarily see the shields of Anakins Naboo fighter and they are only an inch or two from the hull. They are NOT the stupid big bubble shileds usually seen in TNG era Trek.

If you knew anything about nanotech, you'd understand why it is so fucking stupid. Heres a clue: the smaller something is, the more easily destroyed it is.

Ok, give me a cure for AIDS, or SARS, or ANTHRAX.

Creating a cure for a disease is NOT the same thing as killing a space borne nanodevice. We CAN destroy the AIDS virus in an oven quite easily. The problem is that it would kill the patient as well. This isn't an issue with borg nanoprobes in a torpedo.

How? By the singularity? That doesnt meen anything, S8472 could just come out fight from all directions and then have the PK come out in the Chaos.

Look at the battle of Yavin. Heavy jamming around the DS. Lots of chaos among the fighters, yet the rebel base on the other side of a gas giant was STILL able to pick up the "new group of signals" as soon as the Imperial TIES launched. Tracking an incomming cluster of nine bioships in the middle of a battle would be no problem.

There is no way of knowing what the affect planet shields have on the PK.

Exactly, so you CAN'T claim that it would be effective against imperial planets, given the chain reaction nature of the weapon. Chain reactions require something with MASS to react with and an immaterial energy shield does NOT qualify.

[Sovereign]

We project that our Star Destroyers should be able to withstand roughly 1000 photon torpedoes or 370 quantum torpedoes before losing shields. This estimate is based on the ISD shield strength of 1E20 joules determined in the Imperial shield analysis.

This is interesting. It takes 1000 Photons to bring down the ISDs shields. When a Galaxy class starship self destructs it puts out the same amount of power as a 1000 Photons. This is caused when the antimatter pods in the engines break down. But this site also says...

The defense system of a single cube can easily deflect the deflector dish attack, indicating that it is capable of withstanding the power output of the warp core at warp nine.

If maximum power was fired at the Cube and it was completly unifective against the it, then a Cube defences are stronger than perseaved. And those Cubes were ripped apart by Bioships weapons.

[/quote]

[Ender]

We project that our Star Destroyers should be able to withstand roughly 1000 photon torpedoes or 370 quantum torpedoes before losing shields. This estimate is based on the ISD shield strength of 1E20 joules determined in the Imperial shield analysis.

This is interesting. It takes 1000 Photons to bring down the ISDs shields. When a Galaxy class starship self destructs it puts out the same amount of power as a 1000 Photons. This is caused when the antimatter pods in the engines break down. But this site also says...

The defense system of a single cube can easily deflect the deflector dish attack, indicating that it is capable of withstanding the power output of the warp core at warp nine.

If maximum power was fired at the Cube and it was completly unifective against the it, then a Cube defences are stronger than perseaved. And those Cubes were ripped apart by Bioships weapons.

[/quote]You are really one dumb motherfucker, aren't you? We already showed you earlier in this thread that the shields section is in need of an update and is in the process of being rewritten. Those values are over a year out of date, like has been shown. We now have canon values for Wars weaponry and shielding. I repeat canon.

You lose, shut the fuck up.

[Sovereign]

We now have canon values for Wars weaponry and shielding. I repeat canon.

What are they then? If the site has not yet been updated, then at least one of you people has the Canon shields.