[STGOD] Primary Story Thread

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-19 04:47pm

Stormbringer wrote:From: Asgard Foriegn Office
Re: Formal Peace Negotiations

Would formal negotiations in London be satifactory to all the powers?

Prehaps a moer neutral location would be better, something in control of the Minmatar maybe? Otherwise London is fine with me.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-19 04:49pm

We propose, as an alternate location, one of the planets of the Mohaim system. The world has just recently been colonized by the Monacorans, and is far away from the sight of the battle. In addition, the Mohaim system is neutral, with no one owner. As only a small colony exists on-planet now, we could use a location away from the Monacoran colony to supply a truly neutral spot for negotiations, in a location which is close enough to Sol to make it fairly central to galactic affairs (Mohaim is 40LY from Sol.)

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-19 04:50pm

Thirdfain wrote:We propose, as an alternate location, one of the planets of the Mohaim system. The world has just recently been colonized by the Monacorans, and is far away from the sight of the battle. In addition, the Mohaim system is neutral, with no one owner. As only a small colony exists on-planet now, we could use a location away from the Monacoran colony to supply a truly neutral spot for negotiations, in a location which is close enough to Sol to make it fairly central to galactic affairs (Mohaim is 40LY from Sol.)

This is also acceptable to us, we would be willing to provide food, security, housing, and supplies to the delegates.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2003-05-19 05:02pm

3rd Impact wrote:
Darksider wrote:We ask what former holdings we may claim as our own.
The former mining colony of Hinesica is currently unoccupied. (Though it is currently OA territory, we'll transfer control to your forces when they arrive)

We have sent several ships worth of mine workers, as well as seven Glory-class battlecruisers to defend them

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-05-19 05:06pm

General Announcement:
Keel hull laid:

<Fenris news, in a move to combat increased Piracy, the Singer of the Packs, has announced the keel hull constuction in sections for a new class of armed transport has begun.

While the coustom skaffolding space docks are now complete, the main line of the keels has now been fabricated, with primary super structure, and components yet to be built, or announced.

These five vessels, will be the Pack's first "Super" class ships, and will exist as primary Transport/Pirate hunters. to assist in keeping the trade lanes safe and secure.

--Kitsune test run to begin Next week--
The new "Fox" class EW destroyers have finally emerged from dock. The first of the series "Fox" was a casualty of the recent rebellion, however the second ship, "Kitsune" has been completed (Mostly through canabalizing parts of the Fox, and due to revenue over runs) Kitsune features both Pack and human type FTL sensors/broad frequency shifters. <It is an EW platform?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-19 05:17pm

ATTN: Asgard Diplomatic Office
FROM: UFR Office of Diplomacy and War
SUBJ: Arms shipment

Recently, Intelligence operatives have stumbled across evidence of weapons smugglers attempting to move shipments of plasma rifles, recoilless machineguns, and zero-g grenades into the Cluster of Zarathrustra. As weapons trading is not a crime in Zarathrustra, we are unable to follow up on their attempt. We are not sure why they would want to smuggle weapons in, but the fact they are attempting to do so stealthily indicates that they are up to no good.

We have tracked the vessels making the drop off, and we believe was can pinpoint their next drop, near the Soirheytz controlled section of the Sol System asteroid field.

If an Asgard destroyer could arrange to arrive on the scene of the trade, if you understand what we are saying, it would be much appreciated, and perhaps we could gain an understanding of what exactly is going on here.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-05-19 05:21pm

PSR Diplomatic Communique
Send to all recognized Solar powers

Fellow members of the human race,

I am Felix Yussupov, Prime Minister of the Pan-Slavic Republic. In the past few days, I have watched with horror the rapid growth of aggressions and the uncontrolled rush to war. This happened so rapidly and with so little warning, in fact, that our home fleet barely had time to scramble to defend our own territories. With the death of as yet uncounted civilians and soldiers to the Kokand's WMD attack, I asked myself only one question:

Why this rush to judgement? In only a few hours, a simple matter of a few reconnaissance satillites became a full-scale war, with heavy casualties on all sides. Let us not return to the savage days of old, when millions marched to their deaths at the behest of callous dictators.

But since we obviously cannot trust to judgement and level heads, then we must remove the tools that can make such a slaughter in so short a time. The Pan-Slavic Republic has therefore resolved that all weapons of mass-destruction will be banned from deployment and use on the Earth. I present a treaty, which will limit the powers possessing territory on the Earth to the employment weapons of a yield below 20 kilotons, and will ban the firing of greater weapons from space onto the surface. Chemical and biological weapons are banned as a group.

These terms are negotiable in only the most limited sense. We will compromise on the given yield, and on limited deployments of chemical and biological weapons. But this treaty, in one form or another will go through.

To make plain our determination, we also offer a warning.

You may recall the internation court ruling of 2714, wherein the territorial control of the Solar System at large was determined. The then-Russian Empire, possessing the largest population and most far-flung possessions in the system, was given legal authority over the extra-orbital space of the Sol system, with the same rights as if it were its own national territory.* The Pan-Slavic Republic, has long waived these rights. But in the face of this crisis, and the likelihood of more to follow, we are willing to put this legal right to use.

If any Sol based power refuses to sign this treaty, we will close the system to traffic by it--military and civilian. Our legal right to do so is airtight and unchallengable; any nation which attempts to evade this control tacitly acknowledges that it has no respect for international law and the territory of its neighbors, with all the consequences there derived. The economic consequences of such a closure are self-evident. The Earth's resources are stretched thin; without the flow of resources from without, the factories within will sputter and halt.

I leave the decision to you. The slaughter of civilians in such numbers is abhorrent--and we will not allow it.

Prime Minister Felix Yussupov

*(ooc: I cleared this legalism with Phong beforehand)

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-19 05:27pm

From Regent, and Ambassador James Ethaniel Ochobe

Monacoran Treaty Brief, and Blueprint:

The Monacoran Idea for an Ideal system for working out peace, and a post-war, post-Kokkand Galaxy is as follows:

Teritories-

Africa- Everything North of the 15th Paralell North is given to Nubia, Libya, and Algeria, everything between 15North and 5 North is given to Monacora, and everything between 5 north and 10 south is given to the NRE. The remainder goes to the Asgards.

Middle East-
Everything north of Medina is given to Monacora, the rest of the Arabian peninsula is either given to the Asgards or to a Secular State. However the City of Mecca and its suburbs will be turned into a religious state like the city of Roma in the late 20th Century.

Mars-

The NRE's rights to colonization are returned.

Osalon System-

The planet itself is carved up between the NRE, DE, the Floaters (if they choose), and the Monacorans. The moons are turned into an independent privatized war college with no promises made as to which country the graduates have to go to.

Epsilon, Kokkand-

These go to the Asgard Empire to do with as they please.

Reparations-

The remaining leaders of the Former Kokkand Empire apologize for their involvement with the Death of the Black Alice. The Asgards do not have to take part in this as they were decieved as well.

The reparations for Nuclear damages are put over on a per country basis, open to negotiation, with reparations being payed by the Remnants of the Kokkand Empire, or Asgard Empire.

In return the Floaters, Monacorans, KSE, DE, and NRE help the Asgards to recover their lost Asgard and Kokkand ships. And help to provide security of the Asgard Nation while they rebuild themselves.

This is open to negotiation from all parties, and is no way to be taken as a final plan, just the first draft of a begining of peace.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-19 05:30pm

UFR Council Statement:
Freecast

The anti- WMD treaty proposed years ago was ignored- indeed, few saw the need, and some saw this treaty as an attempt to limit their power base.

Now, with the horror and death caused by the Kokand WMD attack, We of the Free Floater Republics hope that the nations of Known Space will now see the folly of using Weapons of Mass Destruction on civilian targets.

Since our great cluster resides so close to Earth, we hope that our voice will be heard as loudly as the voices of those who dwell on the Mother World's surface.

The United Floater Republics, and the Council, give their complete support to the Pan-Slavic Republic's treaty. We will sign. Our nation continues to abbhor WMD use, and we did not deploy any during the course of the war, and we will deploy none after.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-19 05:33pm

Thirdfain wrote:UFR Council Statement:
Freecast

The anti- WMD treaty proposed years ago was ignored- indeed, few saw the need, and some saw this treaty as an attempt to limit their power base.

Now, with the horror and death caused by the Kokand WMD attack, We of the Free Floater Republics hope that the nations of Known Space will now see the folly of using Weapons of Mass Destruction on civilian targets.

Since our great cluster resides so close to Earth, we hope that our voice will be heard as loudly as the voices of those who dwell on the Mother World's surface.

The United Floater Republics, and the Council, give their complete support to the Pan-Slavic Republic's treaty. We will sign. Our nation continues to abbhor WMD use, and we did not deploy any during the course of the war, and we will deploy none after.

We as a nation abhor Nuclear and Radioactive weapons, if only because it makes it harder to consolidate our holdings in newly conquered teritories. And we would be more then willing to support such a treaty on one proviso, the ban on Chemical and Biological weapons is removed when the target is a predominatley military installation.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-05-19 05:39pm

Straha wrote:We as a nation abhor Nuclear and Radioactive weapons, if only because it makes it harder to consolidate our holdings in newly conquered teritories. And we would be more then willing to support such a treaty on one proviso, the ban on Chemical and Biological weapons is removed when the target is a predominatley military installation.

This is acceptable, but we remind the Monacorans that chemical and biological weapons are notoriously difficult to deploy accurately.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-19 05:40pm

Asgard Counter Proposal

Points of Dispute:

Mars-

The NRE's rights to colonization are returned.

Osalon System-

The planet itself is carved up between the NRE, DE, the Floaters (if they choose), and the Monacorans. The moons are turned into an independent privatized war college with no promises made as to which country the graduates have to go to.

We are willing to restore this is and give the NRE and Monaroca the rights to all the Kokand's African holdings. In exchange, Kokand extra-solar holdings shall all devolve to the Asgard.

The remaining leaders of the Former Kokkand Empire apologize for their involvement with the Death of the Black Alice. The Asgards do not have to take part in this as they were decieved as well.

They are private citizens now. We will not compell them to apologize, particularly since we still dispute the claims of the Floaters ourselves.

In return the Floaters, Monacorans, KSE, DE, and NRE help the Asgards to recover their lost Asgard and Kokkand ships. And help to provide security of the Asgard Nation while they rebuild themselves.

The Kokand wrecks will remain AIN property and will be salvaged by our contractors. The Asgard cruisers lost have already been scuttled as they were not worth salavaging.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-19 05:45pm

The Asgard will agree to the PSR's proposal. We will limit Earth based nuclear weapons to 20 kilotons. Since we do not employ and possess only limited stocks of chemical or biological weapons those are a non-issue. We will happily keep our limited stocks away from Sol.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-19 05:47pm

Stormbringer wrote:Asgard Counter Proposal

Points of Dispute:

Mars-

The NRE's rights to colonization are returned.

Osalon System-

The planet itself is carved up between the NRE, DE, the Floaters (if they choose), and the Monacorans. The moons are turned into an independent privatized war college with no promises made as to which country the graduates have to go to.
We are willing to restore this is and give the NRE and Monaroca the rights to all the Kokand's African holdings. In exchange, Kokand extra-solar holdings shall all devolve to the Asgard.

I like this idea, though I would like to counter offer turning the moons of the Osalon system into a Monacoran Funded private war college, again with no pledges of allegiance attached.

The remaining leaders of the Former Kokkand Empire apologize for their involvement with the Death of the Black Alice. The Asgards do not have to take part in this as they were decieved as well.
They are private citizens now. We will not compell them to apologize, particularly since we still dispute the claims of the Floaters ourselves.

How about this, if the Floater claims are found to be verified the Kokkand Leadership who knew about the farce will be put on trial for murder, and for crimes against Humanity. The Asgards would be exempt because, as said before, they were tricked as much as we were.

In return the Floaters, Monacorans, KSE, DE, and NRE help the Asgards to recover their lost Asgard and Kokkand ships. And help to provide security of the Asgard Nation while they rebuild themselves.
The Kokand wrecks will remain AIN property and will be salvaged by our contractors. The Asgard cruisers lost have already been scuttled as they were not worth salavaging.

They will not be taken as our property, all ships which belonged to the Asgards or Kokkands would be given to them, at cost of the Floaters, NRE, and Monacoran nations.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-19 05:57pm

I like this idea, though I would like to counter offer turning the moons of the Osalon system into a Monacoran Funded private war college, again with no pledges of allegiance attached.

Those moons were non-contested andn should rightly devolve to us. We do not wish to be the only ones that must sacrifice it all for peace. So far this looks to be a loosing prospect for the Asgard-Kokand.

How about this, if the Floater claims are found to be verified the Kokkand Leadership who knew about the farce will be put on trial for murder, and for crimes against Humanity. The Asgards would be exempt because, as said before, they were tricked as much as we were.

No. We find the notion of putting them on trial using solely partisan and conflicting evidence repugnant. I am prepared to accept the recommendation of an independent committee on the proviso that they be regarded as Asgard citizens with all the attendent civil rights by any possible court.

They will not be taken as our property, all ships which belonged to the Asgards or Kokkands would be given to them, at cost of the Floaters, NRE, and Monacoran nations.

No. We will not buy back our own ships. This goes against millenia of naval custom to do so. We flat out refuse this point. It is a ludicrous slap in the face.

And as noted, the only Asgard losses have already been scuttled (aka vaporised) and salvage operations begun.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-19 06:02pm

No. We will not buy back our own ships. This goes against millenia of naval custom to do so. We flat out refuse this point. It is a ludicrous slap in the face.

And as noted, the only Asgard losses have already been scuttled (aka vaporised) and salvage operations begun.

The Asgard representative has misread the communique- the Monacoran says that damaged vessels will be returned free of charge.

We would not support it any other way.

As for your citizens, I would like to at the very least call a United Planets trial against the former officials of the Kokand Empire. They have used evey underhanded method at their disposal to incite this war. They have indirectly violated the Freedom to Live of millions. The Kokand people should not be the ones paying for their sins- rather, they should be held accountable.

We ask for nothing more than a fair trial.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-19 06:02pm

Stormbringer wrote:
I like this idea, though I would like to counter offer turning the moons of the Osalon system into a Monacoran Funded private war college, again with no pledges of allegiance attached.
Those moons were non-contested andn should rightly devolve to us. We do not wish to be the only ones that must sacrifice it all for peace. So far this looks to be a loosing prospect for the Asgard-Kokand.

Fair enough, note that the other nations will probably have their own demands, these were ours and we agree to these if you agree to them.

How about this, if the Floater claims are found to be verified the Kokkand Leadership who knew about the farce will be put on trial for murder, and for crimes against Humanity. The Asgards would be exempt because, as said before, they were tricked as much as we were.
No. We find the notion of putting them on trial using solely partisan and conflicting evidence repugnant. I am prepared to accept the recommendation of an independent committee on the proviso that they be regarded as Asgard citizens with all the attendent civil rights by any possible court.

I can agree to the commitee as long as it is not a paper tiger put up to appease us, it must have real power, and the power to prosecute.

They will not be taken as our property, all ships which belonged to the Asgards or Kokkands would be given to them, at cost of the Floaters, NRE, and Monacoran nations.
No. We will not buy back our own ships. This goes against millenia of naval custom to do so. We flat out refuse this point. It is a ludicrous slap in the face.

And as noted, the only Asgard losses have already been scuttled (aka vaporised) and salvage operations begun.

You apparently mis-understood me, when I said at cost to the Floaters NRE, and Monacora I meant that we pay for them, you only pay for the ones that you recover. NO insult was meant by that.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-19 06:15pm

Thirdfain wrote:The Asgard representative has misread the communique- the Monacoran says that damaged vessels will be returned free of charge.

We would not support it any other way.

We are quite happy to undertake the salvage on our own. If you find a wreck simply deposit a beacon. That would be sufficient.

Thirdfain wrote:As for your citizens, I would like to at the very least call a United Planets trial against the former officials of the Kokand Empire. They have used evey underhanded method at their disposal to incite this war. They have indirectly violated the Freedom to Live of millions. The Kokand people should not be the ones paying for their sins- rather, they should be held accountable.

We ask for nothing more than a fair trial.

We first ask for a independent investigation into the validity of the charges that the O'Neil Incident was staged. Either that or the whole of the Floater and NRE leadership be put on trial. Both pushed for war and contributed as much to the death along with their allies.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-05-19 06:16pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:PSR Diplomatic Communique
Send to all recognized Solar powers

Fellow members of the human race,

I am Felix Yussupov, Prime Minister of the Pan-Slavic Republic. In the past few days, I have watched with horror the rapid growth of aggressions and the uncontrolled rush to war. This happened so rapidly and with so little warning, in fact, that our home fleet barely had time to scramble to defend our own territories. With the death of as yet uncounted civilians and soldiers to the Kokand's WMD attack, I asked myself only one question:

Why this rush to judgement? In only a few hours, a simple matter of a few reconnaissance satillites became a full-scale war, with heavy casualties on all sides. Let us not return to the savage days of old, when millions marched to their deaths at the behest of callous dictators.

But since we obviously cannot trust to judgement and level heads, then we must remove the tools that can make such a slaughter in so short a time. The Pan-Slavic Republic has therefore resolved that all weapons of mass-destruction will be banned from deployment and use on the Earth. I present a treaty, which will limit the powers possessing territory on the Earth to the employment weapons of a yield below 20 kilotons, and will ban the firing of greater weapons from space onto the surface. Chemical and biological weapons are banned as a group.

These terms are negotiable in only the most limited sense. We will compromise on the given yield, and on limited deployments of chemical and biological weapons. But this treaty, in one form or another will go through.

To make plain our determination, we also offer a warning.

You may recall the internation court ruling of 2714, wherein the territorial control of the Solar System at large was determined. The then-Russian Empire, possessing the largest population and most far-flung possessions in the system, was given legal authority over the extra-orbital space of the Sol system, with the same rights as if it were its own national territory.* The Pan-Slavic Republic, has long waived these rights. But in the face of this crisis, and the likelihood of more to follow, we are willing to put this legal right to use.

If any Sol based power refuses to sign this treaty, we will close the system to traffic by it--military and civilian. Our legal right to do so is airtight and unchallengable; any nation which attempts to evade this control tacitly acknowledges that it has no respect for international law and the territory of its neighbors, with all the consequences there derived. The economic consequences of such a closure are self-evident. The Earth's resources are stretched thin; without the flow of resources from without, the factories within will sputter and halt.

I leave the decision to you. The slaughter of civilians in such numbers is abhorrent--and we will not allow it.

Prime Minister Felix Yussupov

*(ooc: I cleared this legalism with Phong beforehand)

Although the OU questions the validity of that court ruling, we will sign the treaty so long as it stipulates that it only applies to weapons designed to hit surface targets.

(OOC: Yay! It's nearly impossible to take out my planet based defenses without violating the treaty!)

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-19 06:20pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:The Asgard representative has misread the communique- the Monacoran says that damaged vessels will be returned free of charge.

We would not support it any other way.
We are quite happy to undertake the salvage on our own. If you find a wreck simply deposit a beacon. That would be sufficient.

Thirdfain wrote:As for your citizens, I would like to at the very least call a United Planets trial against the former officials of the Kokand Empire. They have used evey underhanded method at their disposal to incite this war. They have indirectly violated the Freedom to Live of millions. The Kokand people should not be the ones paying for their sins- rather, they should be held accountable.

We ask for nothing more than a fair trial.
We first ask for a independent investigation into the validity of the charges that the O'Neil Incident was staged. Either that or the whole of the Floater and NRE leadership be put on trial. Both pushed for war and contributed as much to the death along with their allies.

These stipulations are acceptable to me, after NRE input and the input of the rest of the NBA I think we could call this cooked. Just a question before we call this finished did you say before that you would be willing to withdraw completley from Africa or only from the Areas stipulated in the original proposal?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-19 06:20pm

Fair enough, note that the other nations will probably have their own demands, these were ours and we agree to these if you agree to them.

These are the terms for all of you not for all the nations. We will not negotiate a thousand small settlements each scooping a chunk of our territory and resources from us. That would be folly and madness.

I can agree to the commitee as long as it is not a paper tiger put up to appease us, it must have real power, and the power to prosecute.

So long as it is confined to real war crimes. Simply starting a war, no matter how costly will not suffice.

You apparently mis-understood me, when I said at cost to the Floaters NRE, and Monacora I meant that we pay for them, you only pay for the ones that you recover. NO insult was meant by that.

Thank you for the clarification. We will salvage the wrecks on our own. We mean no offense and thank you for the other.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-19 06:24pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Fair enough, note that the other nations will probably have their own demands, these were ours and we agree to these if you agree to them.
These are the terms for all of you not for all the nations. We will not negotiate a thousand small settlements each scooping a chunk of our territory and resources from us. That would be folly and madness.

I agree fully, I am just saying that the NRE/DE/KSE might want to bicker over the details, not over taking this planet or that planet from you.

You apparently mis-understood me, when I said at cost to the Floaters NRE, and Monacora I meant that we pay for them, you only pay for the ones that you recover. NO insult was meant by that.
Thank you for the clarification. We will salvage the wrecks on our own. We mean no offense and thank you for the other.

Your welcome, and many thanks for making this a much more enjoyable and peaceful proccess then the Kokkands would have made it before.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-19 06:25pm

We first ask for a independent investigation into the validity of the charges that the O'Neil Incident was staged.

Our agent had it from the mouth of the Kokand official she was sleeping with that-
"Those abhuman bastards will get what they deserve, from my hands. Their kind are all impulsive- they can hardly control themselves, my dear. After that dupe has done his work- imagine that, dear? I am quite clever, don't you think?"
- Kokand security and xenophobia made them extremely hard to infiltrate. In addition, the fact they rarely record their most sensitive data removed the possibility of our hacking their systems to gain information. Human error was the only thing that allowed us to penetrate their defenses. The official had been keeping his affairs quite secret from his government friends, but we caught wind of them. After that, it was only a matter of time before we could sneak a genemodded agent into his bed.

Our evidence is conclusive. Unfortunatly, our agent was killed by Kokand security forces only minutes after broadcasting what she knew.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-05-19 06:29pm

Thirdfain wrote:
We first ask for a independent investigation into the validity of the charges that the O'Neil Incident was staged.
Our agent had it from the mouth of the Kokand official she was sleeping with that-
"Those abhuman bastards will get what they deserve, from my hands. Their kind are all impulsive- they can hardly control themselves, my dear. After that dupe has done his work- imagine that, dear? I am quite clever, don't you think?"
- Kokand security and xenophobia made them extremely hard to infiltrate. In addition, the fact they rarely record their most sensitive data removed the possibility of our hacking their systems to gain information. Human error was the only thing that allowed us to penetrate their defenses. The official had been keeping his affairs quite secret from his government friends, but we caught wind of them. After that, it was only a matter of time before we could sneak a genemodded agent into his bed.

Our evidence is conclusive. Unfortunatly, our agent was killed by Kokand security forces only minutes after broadcasting what she knew.

So all that you have is the testimony of a dead, or possibly mythical agent? How convenient. We also question your claims of xenophobia, considering that the Kokand and the Skaven are of different races, and yet had a long military alliance.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-19 06:32pm

So all that you have is the testimony of a dead, or possibly mythical agent? How convenient. We also question your claims of xenophobia, considering that the Kokand and the Skaven are of different races, and yet had a long military alliance.

This is not the time or place for this argument. We will accept a trial, mediated by a neutral party.

Oh, and ask your Skaven allies again about the Kokand- They appear to have found a number of Kokand agents infiltrating other members of the NBA. They have moved to have the Kokand removed from the NBA. Perhaps they have finally seen the Kokanders for what they may be.