Whats the most annoying "funamentalist" religion?

[NapoleonGH]

The extreme amounts of bigotry against 1 religion in favor of another is frightening. Islam doesnt say that the majority of the world's population should be enslaved, that is jewdism and christianity.

[RedImperator]

Fundie Protestants are the most annoying types I have to deal with locally, but when they blow buildings up, they stick to little ones like abortion clinics instead of big ones like skyscrapers, so fundamentalist Islam takes the worldwide prize.

[Coyote]

...Islam doesnt say that the majority of the world's population should be enslaved, that is jewdism and christianity.

Judaism and Christianity promotes world enslavement???

[NapoleonGH]

yes coyote, perhaps you should read the bible, the part about the son's of Ham being condemed into slavery, that is everyone but the whites and jews, so everyone else, who constitute the majority of the world's population are supposed to be slaves according to the bible/torah.

Redimperator: so then you say that blowing up a few buildings, however tragic, is a worse thing then a genocide that claimed the lives of 6 million people in the name of christianity (i refer of course to the Nazi Genocide of the 1940s)

[RedImperator]

Redimperator: so then you say that blowing up a few buildings, however tragic, is a worse thing then a genocide that claimed the lives of 6 million people in the name of christianity (i refer of course to the Nazi Genocide of the 1940s)

Oh come off it. Bad as most fundies are, they're not that bad. Hitler may have been Christian, but Nazism twisted Christianity so far that comparing modern Southern Baptists and the like to them is absurd--and painful as it is for me to defend fundies, unfair. And the ideaology that produced the Holocaust (12 million total killed, by the way, not just the 6 million Jews) was racial, not religious (despite the religious threads Hitler wove through it to legitimize it)--Jews were seen as a separate and distinct RACE, not just a religious group, which is why lapsed Jews, converted Jews, Christians with Jewish grandparents, and millions of other undesireables were killed in the camps alongside practicing Jews.

[Darth Gojira]

Redimperator: so then you say that blowing up a few buildings, however tragic, is a worse thing then a genocide that claimed the lives of 6 million people in the name of christianity (i refer of course to the Nazi Genocide of the 1940s)

Oh come off it. Bad as most fundies are, they're not that bad. Hitler may have been Christian, but Nazism twisted Christianity so far that comparing modern Southern Baptists and the like to them is absurd--and painful as it is for me to defend fundies, unfair. And the ideaology that produced the Holocaust (12 million total killed, by the way, not just the 6 million Jews) was racial, not religious (despite the religious threads Hitler wove through it to legitimize it)--Jews were seen as a separate and distinct RACE, not just a religious group, which is why lapsed Jews, converted Jews, Christians with Jewish grandparents, and millions of other undesireables were killed in the camps alongside practicing Jews.

True, but religion had a part nonetheless. Luther himself wrote "On Jews and their lies(Mike even referenced it in his accurate Hitler essay), so religion had a minor part in it.

[Coyote]

yes coyote, perhaps you should read the bible, the part about the son's of Ham being condemed into slavery, that is everyone but the whites and jews, so everyone else, who constitute the majority of the world's population are supposed to be slaves according to the bible/torah.

While I have not read all of the Bible, I have read some and bear in mind that everyone practiced slavery back then, it was par for the course and an accepted practice. It was also not like the slavery we think of in modern terms, like the American South.

In the Biblical era, when slavery was condemned, they were taking the much-needed first step towards the slow realization that slavery was wrong. Naturally they said, "we should not enslave our own people", but they still enslaved others. No society was advanced enough at that time to grapple with the concept that all slavery was bad; someone had to be first. And where did you get the Whites in it? Was that a Christian spin? I can't speak for them, but Jesus was no honky.

I think your spin is too literalist. There is no modern Christian or Jewish theologian today that advocates slavery. I mean, I think Siddhartha (?) was a Prince, so does that mean that Hinduism advocates Monarchy today?

[Sir Sirius]

IIRC Siddharta gave up his title and fortune and chose to live in poverty.

[jegs2]

Saying that since Hitler held some vague claim to Christianity (I seriously doubt he was a Christian), thus linking Christians with the death of six million Jews would be as absurd as my saying that since the Watts riots were started by black men, then ALL blacks are inherently evil.

Similarly, I could claim any cause I want in order to commit atrocities in its name. Only simple-minded individuals would then automatically declare that particular cause as evil, instead of blaming those responsible. But then it is far easier to shed responsibility for one's actions onto a nebulous "cause" or "religious doctrine" (THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!!!) than to take responsibility for your own actions. Hitler did what he did, and he and those who carried out his orders are to blame, not Christianity. Which of Jesus' commands did Hitler follow in his attempted extermination of the Jews? None! He will have a long eternity in the fires of Hell to reflect on his actions, and any loose claim he may have had to Christianity will be of no help to him or anyone who commits evil in the name of Christ.

[Coyote]

Here is where Christianity has a interesting advantage-- at least among the Protestants, who believe that it is you personal relationship with Jesus as your accepted Savior that makes the difference. The faith in your heart is what makes or breaks you, not a mechanical repetition of ritual.

So Hitler could spout Christian platitudes all he wants, if his heart was impure (and it would certainly appear to be the case) it would make no difference, he'd be on the express train to the infernal regions.

The real critical point would be on all the professed German Christians who believed Hitlers platitudes and followed them without question. Those folks would have some serious questions to answer.

[Coyote]

IIRC Siddharta gave up his title and fortune and chose to live in poverty.

But it was his inheirited birthright. On another note, Jesus was referred to as "King of the Jews" but no Christian advocates that we should be ruled by Kings (human "Kings", anyway). Modern Israel would not set up a new "King" David from among our ranks....

[Sea Skimmer]

Depends if where talking about just currently or throughout history.

[Coyote]

Modern theology. Christianity and Judaism used to accept slavery and monarchy, but as society developed these religions kept stride, more or less. Actually a lot of Jews jumped into early Communist movements, to be exact...

But while even the most fundamentalist Jews and Christians have learned not to do that, fundamentalist Muslims make it very public that they intend to bring about a world Jihad and bring back the "good ol' days" of Islam, with women in burquas, rulership by priests, and the forced conversion of non-Muslims-- or their deaths. They've also proven that this is not rhetoric; when they have the opportunity to put it into practice, they carry out all these plans.

[RedImperator]

True, but religion had a part nonetheless. Luther himself wrote "On Jews and their lies(Mike even referenced it in his accurate Hitler essay), so religion had a minor part in it.

Oh, certainly religion (specifically historical European Christian anti-Semitism) played a part. The difference between historical anti-Semitism and Nazi anti-Semitism (which had its roots in the 19th century) is that historical anti-Semites hated Judaism, but converted Jews were considered Christians and that was that. Luther initially wrote favorably of the Jews, because he expected that they'd convert to reformed Christianity, and they'd only stayed Jews because they, quite reasonably, didn't want to be Catholics. He started writing against them once he realized they wouldn't convert.

Nazi anti-Semitism saw Jews as a race who happened to share a religion. They couldn't convert any more than a black man could "convert" from blackness. Then the Nazis took it to a step nobody imagined before: the attempted industrialized murder of every Jew in Europe.

At any rate, Christianity had its place in the Nazi worldview, but it was nothing that could be compared to modern American Protestantism. Like I said, I don't like fundies, but I don't compare people to Nazis lightly.

[Peregrin Toker]

Similarly, I could claim any cause I want in order to commit atrocities in its name. Only simple-minded individuals would then automatically declare that particular cause as evil, instead of blaming those responsible.

What if it's abundantly clear that the cause is evil? (examples: any politically extremist movement, particularly Leninist Communism)