8472 Planet Killer vs Death Star

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-05-19 05:35pm

Sovereign wrote:
stardestroyer.net wrote:We project that our Star Destroyers should be able to withstand roughly 1000 photon torpedoes or 370 quantum torpedoes before losing shields. This estimate is based on the ISD shield strength of 1E20 joules determined in the Imperial shield analysis.
This is interesting. It takes 1000 Photons to bring down the ISDs shields. When a Galaxy class starship self destructs it puts out the same amount of power as a 1000 Photons. This is caused when the antimatter pods in the engines break down. But this site also says...

Idiot, I already gave you the value for the shielding, that is an old page that hasn't been updated with new information. Just because you bring out several year old info, even if it is from the site, doesn't mean that its true. We've already given you more up to date information on the ISD and you just ignore it.

stardestroyer.net wrote:The defense system of a single cube can easily deflect the deflector dish attack, indicating that it is capable of withstanding the power output of the warp core at warp nine.

If maximum power was fired at the Cube and it was completly unifective against the it, then a Cube defences are stronger than perseaved. And those Cubes were ripped apart by Bioships weapons.
[/quote]

Maximum power for the power output of a warp core, a speck of dust compared to the power of a hypermatter reactor. Stop being stupid, and ignoring the information already given to you.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-05-19 05:36pm

Sovereign wrote:
We now have canon values for Wars weaponry and shielding. I repeat canon.
What are they then? If the site has not yet been updated, then at least one of you people has the Canon shields.

Actually dumbass, the canon listing are on the site, and you were linked to them earlier.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Ess ... nutes.html

The now canon stats for the Acclamator class troop transport ( a 20 year old ship about 1/10th the power of an ISD) can be found there.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-05-19 05:38pm

Sovereign wrote:
We now have canon values for Wars weaponry and shielding. I repeat canon.
What are they then? If the site has not yet been updated, then at least one of you people has the Canon shields.

We have high end offical figures for fire power and using an offical situation we can use those figures to calculate low end shielding figure. A figure which I already gave you when you tried to use a bio ship taking 15 cubes as a measure of power and I showed you that a ISD can take down over 24,000. But you just ignored that like the little shit that you are.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-19 05:43pm

Sovereign wrote:
We now have canon values for Wars weaponry and shielding. I repeat canon.
What are they then? If the site has not yet been updated, then at least one of you people has the Canon shields.

FUCk YOU ASSHOLE! YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN FUCKING TOLD THAT PAGE IS OUTDATED!

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2003-05-19 06:09pm

I just noticed this... there were actually 6 people who voted for 8472. Christ this place is crawlin' with them. (Takes out flame thrower)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-05-19 06:13pm

And to make Servo jealous

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12237
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12143
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8862
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7663
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=6131
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=4769

You think one day he'll answer these...or some dream much like living with pixes on gumdrop lane?

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-05-19 08:31pm

Darth Servo wrote:
beyond hope wrote:I cannot take credit for another man's work: Ghostrider had posted "The Complete Works of Sovereign" earlier in this thread and I merely pasted it as yet another "gentle" reminder that he has other messes to attend to. I got a real kick out of it too, especially going back and seeing that he's being trounced on a lot of the same points as he did in his FIRST 8-balls vs. the Empire thread.
Then give the credit where it belongs. I posted that list back on page two of this thread.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... c&start=25

Ooops.

I apologize. I think reading that many of Sov's posts at one time made my brain shut down in self-defense.

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2003-05-20 01:01pm

Death Star wins easily.

However I don't see how anyone can say that the DS is always more efficient when used against a poorly defended (ala almost any TNG+ system in ST) system. The DS is massive compared to the PK and would be sheer overkill against such a target.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-20 02:31pm

Sovereign wrote:
stardestroyer.net wrote:We project that our Star Destroyers should be able to withstand roughly 1000 photon torpedoes or 370 quantum torpedoes before losing shields. This estimate is based on the ISD shield strength of 1E20 joules determined in the Imperial shield analysis.
This is interesting. It takes 1000 Photons to bring down the ISDs shields. When a Galaxy class starship self destructs it puts out the same amount of power as a 1000 Photons. This is caused when the antimatter pods in the engines break down. But this site also says...

Dumbass. You STILL don't understand that this estimate for ISD shielding is a CONSERVATIVE LOWER LIMIT. Hello, hello, anybody home? Do you know what a lower limit is? And where is your evidence that the warp core detonation puts out as much energy as 1000 torps? And how do you go from "deflector dish puts out energy of warp 9" to "deflector dish puts out as much energy as warp core detonation"

stardestroyer.net wrote:The defense system of a single cube can easily deflect the deflector dish attack, indicating that it is capable of withstanding the power output of the warp core at warp nine.
If maximum power was fired at the Cube and it was completly unifective against the it, then a Cube defences are stronger than perseaved. And those Cubes were ripped apart by Bioships weapons.

And in "Night Terrors" they demonstrated that the deflector dish trick has LESS energy that a large chemical explosion. All this proves is that photon torps are MUCH WEAKER than the old Trek Tech manual estimate. Borg ships are also ripped apart by a solar flare in "Descent"

You ARE aware of the importance of taking into account ALL of the evidence, aren't you? I doubt it.

We really need a "dumbass" smiley just for sovereign.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-20 02:34pm

Ghost Rider wrote:And to make Servo jealous

Jealous

Why would I be jeaolus? I posted that list for the explicit purpose of shoving it down Sovereign's throat. Post it as much as you want. The next thread he starts, we can add this thread to the list.

You think one day he'll answer these...or some dream much like living with pixes on gumdrop lane?

No. He's a baby. He doesn't know how to take responsibility for his own crap.

Sovereign

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-05-20 02:47pm

Very true...sigh.

He and Galaxy(who's on SB now), remind of just guys who have no knowledge of the subject they speak off and just spout garbage.

And yes, we'll add this to the growing list of crap Sovvie has yet to actually refute/concede.

And yes we need some dumbass smiley for Soverign.

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2003-05-20 07:00pm

http://www.geocities.com/sovereign_empi ... _8472.html

That page is all canon info on Species 8472, except their ships. Thats not ready yet.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-05-20 08:15pm

Sovie's title wrote:http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12237
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=12143
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=8862
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7663
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=6131
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=4769
www.geocities.com/sovereign_empire/Intro.html
EnterpriseVIII@hotmail.com

Ok, he's admitting his cowardace. Seriously, new title for this fucker.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-05-20 08:31pm

Sovereign wrote:http://www.geocities.com/sovereign_empi ... _8472.html

That page is all canon info on Species 8472, except their ships. Thats not ready yet.

I think this attempted Thread hijack should be split to the ST forum.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-05-20 11:50pm

Sovereign wrote:http://www.geocities.com/sovereign_empi ... _8472.html

That page is all canon info on Species 8472, except their ships. Thats not ready yet.

That page brings up a wonderful point: If their ships are so god aweful powerful, why didn't it just blow the Hirogen out of space.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-05-21 12:05am

Wait, he added the links to his sig line HIMSELF?! It wasn't done by someone else as a reminder to him?

Can we have his user name edited to "Forrest Sov"?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-05-21 12:07am

beyond hope wrote:Wait, he added the links to his sig line HIMSELF?! It wasn't done by someone else as a reminder to him?

Can we have his user name edited to "Forrest Sov"?

Now that would just be insulting Forrest...he wasn't THAT dumb.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-21 11:45am

Sovereign wrote:http://www.geocities.com/sovereign_empi ... _8472.html

That page is all canon info on Species 8472, except their ships. Thats not ready yet.

Looks pretty good. One question though:

The Borg observed that, on boarding an enemy vessel, Species 8472 will immediately seek to disable the main power matrix of the ship, followed by life support and gravimetric controls. The creatures will attempt to barricade itself if wounded, in order to give itself time to regenerate.

Where did you get this particular bit of information? I don't remember anything in "Scorpion" saying what the 8472 was doing on the remains of the cube.

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2003-05-21 03:19pm

That page brings up a wonderful point: If their ships are so god aweful powerful, why didn't it just blow the Hirogen out of space.

It was damaged by the biogenic weapon, and could not retreat back home to fluidic space. The attackes by the Hirogen slowed its regeneration and it was chased for 50 lightyears. Then is was captured on a rock and regenerated on their ship. Then it escaped killed one Hirogen and tried to use Voyager to return home. It failed was caught again, but they never said anything about it after that, so their is no way of knowing what happened to the S8472. There is an 8472 Vessel floating and regenerating in space somewhere (unless the Hirogen picked it up).

Where did you get this particular bit of information? I don't remember anything in "Scorpion" saying what the 8472 was doing on the remains of the cube.

I thought I remember somthing about power fluxuations in their matrix or somthing, while the Borg tried to regenerate themselves. Other than that I dont know, it was just in the info. I will have to check that out somtime.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-21 03:40pm

Sovereign wrote:It was damaged by the biogenic weapon, and could not retreat back home to fluidic space. The attackes by the Hirogen slowed its regeneration and it was chased for 50 lightyears. Then is was captured on a rock and regenerated on their ship. Then it escaped killed one Hirogen and tried to use Voyager to return home. It failed was caught again, but they never said anything about it after that, so their is no way of knowing what happened to the S8472. There is an 8472 Vessel floating and regenerating in space somewhere (unless the Hirogen picked it up).

I thought I remember somthing about power fluxuations in their matrix or somthing, while the Borg tried to regenerate themselves. Other than that I dont know, it was just in the info. I will have to check that out somtime.

1) both of these paragraphs both incorporate the same non-sensical assumption--that the "regenerative" capabilities of the borg and s8472 are infinite. Please justify this assumption.

2) The power fluctuations could EASILY be from battle damage and probably were, since the damaged cube in ST:FC was also experiencing "power fluctuations".

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2003-05-21 03:49pm

1) both of these paragraphs both incorporate the same non-sensical assumption--that the "regenerative" capabilities of the borg and s8472 are infinite. Please justify this assumption.

2) The power fluctuations could EASILY be from battle damage and probably were, since the damaged cube in ST:FC was also experiencing "power fluctuations".

1. True that it is unknown if regeneration is infinate. But the Enterprise Borg episode, demenstrated that even after 100 years, two drones could regenerate and continue assimilation. Other than that, I just dont know. With Species 8472, there is no true way of knowing neither. No one knows the life span of a single member.

2. True, but the battle still raged in FC, while the battle had ended in Scorpion. But still it may be true, they were fighting an intruder.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-21 03:52pm

Debate coward, and answer the links posted.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-21 03:57pm

Sovereign wrote:1. True that it is unknown if regeneration is infinate. But the Enterprise Borg episode, demenstrated that even after 100 years, two drones could regenerate and continue assimilation. Other than that, I just dont know. With Species 8472, there is no true way of knowing neither. No one knows the life span of a single member.
NOTHING is EVER infinite (except perhaps the universe itself). Ask yourself which is more reasonable--to assume something has definite finite limits or to assume something is infinite?
2. True, but the battle still raged in FC, while the battle had ended in Scorpion. But still it may be true, they were fighting an intruder.

The Cube in Scorpion was much MORE damaged than the one in FC, making it even MORE likely that the "fluctuations" were from battle damage.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-21 03:57pm

Could a moderator fix the html in my last post and then delete this one?

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2003-05-21 04:54pm

NOTHING is EVER infinite (except perhaps the universe itself). Ask yourself which is more reasonable--to assume something has definite finite limits or to assume something is infinite?

Perhaps then the Nanoprobes in the Borg can last a very long time, but in the end, not forever. Same goes for S8472. They last a while, but not forever.

The Cube in Scorpion was much MORE damaged than the one in FC, making it even MORE likely that the "fluctuations" were from battle damage.

Possibly. But then again the fleet could have been targeting the Cubes Power Matrix, and causing the fluxuations, the same way S8472 was tearing up the Cubes Power Grid.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

8472 Planet Killer vs Death Star

8472s ability to destroy planets vs Death Star's