13,000 Fla. Seniors Fail Achievement Test

Clone Sergeant · Post by **Clone Sergeant** » 2003-05-19 03:49pm

Look at this:

Article

What is with the american school system and standardized tests?

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-05-19 03:57pm

We're lazy fucks who rather play and do other things than actually know things for them tests.

I would rather think it the person's fault and not the education system. There are people who just don't want to learn.

Cyaround,
Jason

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2003-05-19 04:19pm

This is the first year that seniors have been required to pass the test, which measures reading, writing and math skills, before graduating.

Ehh

Being able to read & write is usually a normal requirement, why the extra test?

Is it possible to go thorough high school without learning that?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-05-19 04:25pm

The article focuses mostly on students for whom English is a second language, a group that's very likely to have problems with the test. I'd be very curious to see what the results are for native English speakers (though I'd bet a preponderance of those who failed are from lower income districtS).

If the test was designed well--that is, designed so that students who have learned what they are expected to learn by 12th grade by any reasonable standard can pass it, then these results reveal a major problem within Florida's public school system. If the test was badly designed, then someone in Tallahassee has unrealistic expectations (as might be true with the ESL students).

The response to this will be predictable. The state government will hoot and holler and make omnious noises about school funding for schools with unacceptable failure rates, the protesters will scream and bitch and make ominous noises about racism and lawsuits, and the result will be that the state quietly dumbs down the test while the schools quietly put pressure on the teachers to teach the test. Scores go up, little Johnny Nobrain gets his increasingly worthless diploma, politicians clap themselves on the back for a job well done and get reelected, and Florida gets even stupider than it already is.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-05-19 05:07pm

We already did a thread on this here.

These test are a joke. If you manage to graduate without passing this, then your diploma is worth less than the toilet paper you wipe your ass with.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-19 05:30pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:We already did a thread on this here.

These test are a joke. If you manage to graduate without passing this, then your diploma is worth less than the toilet paper you wipe your ass with.

Hell this year the Science section isn't worth anything--so I just didn't do half of it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-20 02:51am

The high school diploma is already worthless. How many employers look at a person with nothing but a high school diploma and say "hmmm, I'd say he must be fairly smart, based on the fact that he was able to graduate high school"?

High school curricula and testing are designed with the basic intent that any kid who wants to pass can do so. As long as educators have the basic mentality that high school must leave no idiot behind, the resulting diploma will always be worthless.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-05-20 02:59am

Twice now I've looked at this thread's title and thought that 13,000 Florida Seniors (as in retirement age people) failed some aptitude test. I guess I was assuming that Florida had decided to test it's seniors either before letting them renew their driver's license or perhaps voter registration.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-20 09:35am

Too bad for them. The tests are easy and now these morons are going to court over it.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-05-20 09:58am

As a graduating Florida Senior (May 29th people!) I can offer my two cents on this.

The FCAT wasn't all that hard. I had to take it in 10th grade, as have my peers (when it counted). We took it in 10th grade. That was two years ago! You have five more chances to take the blasted thing (as the article points out; I knew you had chances to retake it, just not how many). That's five chances for the same damn test! I know my school (Tampa Bay Technical) gave you all sorts of chances to improve, from mandatory Intensive Reading/Math courses to free tutoring and all sorts of English and Math class time to "teach the test" as it were.

Now maybe my school is different (we are Full Magnet, which means EVERYONE has to apply to get in), but for those who fail the first time out, they get a shitload of chances to make it up, NOT to mention the fact that most of my 10th grade year was spent preparing for the damn thing. But if other schools took measures similar to mine, you either have kids who just aren't trying or are, to be frank, not smart enough to recieve a high school diploma. ANd if other schools haven't even done half of what hoops mine jumps through for those who fail it 10th grade year, then they probably should think about it.

So, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be terribly sympathetic to anyone who can't pass the FCAT, which wasn't even all that hard of a test the first time I took it.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-05-20 07:30pm

And here I was complaining about the New York State Regents Exams....

The crappiness of American education is truly astounding.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-05-20 09:15pm

Isn't it interesting that when thousands of people fail a simple and apparently quite easy test, educators blame the test and not the students?

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2003-05-20 09:24pm

Kanos wrote:Isn't it interesting that when thousands of people fail a simple and apparently quite easy test, educators blame the test and not the students?

But not surprising. If an educator blames the students then people will say, "Hey. Weren't you teaching these students anything?"

XPViking

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-05-20 10:25pm

there are three groups to be blamed for people being stupid and uneducated

1. The students, they arent working hard enough/arent motivated/dont care
2. The teachers, they arent reaching the students and generally teachers, especially in poorer areas are of rather low calibur in their own intelligence/education and ability to have a commanding presence.

3. The parents, not only can they be blamed for setting a bad example/not encouraging education enough, but there most certainly is a genetic component to intelligence or lack there of (im not talking education, motivation, knowledge, im talking intelligence the ablility to learn and reason) and if the parents lack the right genes, unless there is a point mutation or a recessive that is rienforced, you'll get stupid kids.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-05-21 09:32am

It's a combination of students and teachers in some cases. Students who don't give a damn, and won't do crap in class, and even be generally disruptive, and the teachers who let them get away with it, and don't tell 'em to shut up and sit their ass down.

And then there's the administration who won't kick a student out of even a totally voluntary school, no matter HOW many referrals they get. But maybe that's just my school (the voluntary part anyway; admin doesn't seem to like to use the OSS, or make it stick because of the really stupid ATOSS...but maybe that's another thread).

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-21 12:42pm

RogueIce wrote:And then there's the administration who won't kick a student out of even a totally voluntary school, no matter HOW many referrals they get. But maybe that's just my school (the voluntary part anyway; admin doesn't seem to like to use the OSS, or make it stick because of the really stupid ATOSS...but maybe that's another thread).

At my school you were allowed four days of suspensions, then you got kicked out. They usually ignored suspensions for minor infractions (like marking someone during Homecoming), though.

It was also a voluntary school, but if you screwed up enough you would get sent to your zoned school.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-05-21 06:33pm

phongn wrote:At my school you were allowed four days of suspensions, then you got kicked out. They usually ignored suspensions for minor infractions (like marking someone during Homecoming), though.

It was also a voluntary school, but if you screwed up enough you would get sent to your zoned school.

That's the theory behind mine too. However, they only ever kicked one out that I know of, and that was after he was arrested his second time. Everyone else they let stay in, including a kid who is on the registered sex offenders list!

I shit you not. He's our Valdectorian (sp).

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » 2003-05-21 11:25pm

They need to start FAILING these people again instead of passing them with mindlessly easy classes. If you don't give homework, have hard tests, and teach the material then what do you expect? As sorry as many of the students are, it isn't all their fault. Teachers are all too often fitness or health majors teaching history or math as a minor. Schools spend excessive amounts of money on sports programs while neglecting books and other academic supplies. It isn't an issue of money, its an issue of stupidity running the system at nearly every level.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-05-29 06:25pm

To be honest, I haven't seen the 12th-grade FCAT. I left high school before the FCAT was required (for those in Florida, I took the HSCT). However, I've worked with elementary-school children, and their test is horrible. The instructions are unclear, and when I took practice tests I barely passed the elementary test. Now, I passed high school with over a 4.0 GPA, I had a 790 verbal SAT score, and I have a 140+ IQ, yet I could barely pass a elementary-school competency exam because I could not understand the directions.

RedImperator: Just as with the MCAS, FCAT scores for elementary children were distributed almost perfectly by income. Failure rates ranged from 0% for the only magnet school in my region to 97% for a "special needs" inner city school (I believe it's a low IQ school). It tended to range in the single digits in wealthy areas and roughly 40% in low-income regions. Just like the SAT, where every $10,000 of family income is worth 30 points.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2003-05-30 07:42am

Darth Wong wrote:
High school curricula and testing are designed with the basic intent that any kid who wants to pass can do so. As long as educators have the basic mentality that high school must leave no idiot behind, the resulting diploma will always be worthless.

Suprisingly, that sentiment is increasingly popular in Ontario's elementary schools where it is difficult to leave a child back a grade. These kids, instead of speanding more time working on the basics (be it math, languages, etc.) are pushed through the system and then end up in high school where they expect the same treatment; they turn into lazy slugs and magically expect a 51 at report card time!