What's the lesser of two automotive evils...

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

My vote went to SUVs for the lesser of evils. Sports cars are death traps, they use gas that burns faster and hotter, they zoom down the street at cutting speeds, and they crumble like a tin can. SUVs are built to be safer, however, if you live in california and have been dealing with the 2.05$ gas prices, then you might want a sports car. :D

Wrong. Both sport cars and the newer SUVs use high-octane premium unleaded. And an SUV on a truck frame is a death-trap. The sports car crumples for a reason . . . the body is supposed to absorb the kinetic energy of the collision, ideally leaving the driver and the safety cage intact. A truck-based SUV doesn't crumple nearly as much, which is fine when you're running into little cars . . . but when you're hitting a telephone pole, a wall, or another SUV, that thin-skinned water balloon called the driver ends up absorbing more of the kinetic energy of the collision.

[neoolong]

They sure as hell shouldn't be. They aren't sports car nor were they meant to be sports cars. They're coupes for those that want a reliable car to get from point A to point B, but don't want to spend too much money.

I totally agree, but that doesn't change the fact that Honda lists them as the "The #1 selling sports car in its class" or some such nonesense.

To be fair, the DX and EX are actually both DUALLY listed as Econ. and Sport. And as for "The best sports car in its class," well... Its class is comprised of the Pinto and the Fiat. FORD Fiat, not Fiat the brand.

Bah, that's like saying well, of our economy cars and its competition, it's the closest thing to a sports car, so we'll just call it that.

[Queeb Salaron]

Bah, that's like saying well, of our economy cars and its competition, it's the closest thing to a sports car, so we'll just call it that.

And there you have it. A summation of Marketing 101.

[Queeb Salaron]

And for the record, I think I've found the perfect car.

Definition of "Pimped Out"

[Faram]

And for the record, I think I've found the perfect car.

Definition of "Pimped Out"

Woo I need to get my one of those!

[neoolong]

Hmm, I think there's more to that car than meets the eye.

[Beowulf]

SUVs also use their categorization as "light trucks" to evade many federal standards of automaking.

Yeehaw! Long live the "light truck", and everything it stands for!

BTW, Today we almost got into an accident thanks to some
fucknut in a ricer burning past us and making sharp lane changes....

Today, I almost got into an accident thanks to some moron in a SUV burning past me and then trying to change back into my lane through my front fender, at 85 mph.

[phongn]

I wish the vast majority would be more careful about how they drive SUVs. My family has an Expedition and we certainly don't drive it in that fashion.

[Sea Skimmer]

I wish the vast majority would be more careful about how they drive SUVs. My family has an Expedition and we certainly don't drive it in that fashion.

I wish the vast majority would simply stop driving them. If you need somthing that huge go buy an M113 for half the price.

[Beowulf]

I wish the vast majority would be more careful about how they drive SUVs. My family has an Expedition and we certainly don't drive it in that fashion.

I wish the vast majority would simply stop driving them. If you need somthing that huge go buy an M113 for half the price.

I wish the vast majority would learn how to drive properly.

[Damaramu]

Here in Houston, most SUV's are driven by cel phone talking motherfuckers who need to be dragged out of their moving houses and flogged by bums armed with razor wire.

Seriously though, I hate those big ass SUV's. Fuck them and the soccer moms who drive them.

[EmperorMing]

Here in Houston, most SUV's are driven by cel phone talking motherfuckers who need to be dragged out of their moving houses and flogged by bums armed with razor wire.

Seriously though, I hate those big ass SUV's. Fuck them and the soccer moms who drive them.

Don't remind me. Heck *most* of the people down here cannot drive at all...

Non turn-signal using, slow-driving in the fast lane, making the off-ramp 3 lanes over idjuts...

[phongn]

I wish the vast majority would be more careful about how they drive SUVs. My family has an Expedition and we certainly don't drive it in that fashion.

I wish the vast majority would simply stop driving them. If you need somthing that huge go buy an M113 for half the price.

Well, we need to carry up to eight people and my dad often uses it to haul a good deal of cargo around inside. The only alternative would be a van, and that'll block visibility just as much as an SUV and probably get similar, if not worse, mileage.

He was also considering using it to tow various things, but that fell through.

[Thunderfire]

I voted for SUV they can actually be usefull. SUVs aren't that much
of a problem here (mini)van drivers are. Sports cars are just for fun
- they have no real use. A sport cars would be pretty useless on some
"roads" I use.

[Stuart Mackey]

Ahhh the Off road thing.

Where I work we have these old pre 1930's {crash gearbox's, armstrong stearing, no heaters letalone airconditioning. rear wheel drive only) vehicles that can, and have, do what off road vehicles do. Yet a modern passenger car cannot do this.

What really makes me laugh is a mechanic we have who has a old series one landrover who, at offroad events, beats the living daylights out of these modern SUV vehicles.

[Thunderfire]

Most modern SUV are a compromise between comfort & off road
capability. Dedicated off road vehicles should beat them easily.

[Stuart Mackey]

Most modern SUV are a compromise between comfort & off road
capability. Dedicated off road vehicles should beat them easily.

Indeed. The first landies are not exactly luxury vehicles and are easy to fix which is why so many farmers brought them.

[Peregrin Toker]

Most modern SUV are a compromise between comfort & off road
capability. Dedicated off road vehicles should beat them easily.

Note that many car companies have two SUV lines - one for off-road enthusiasts, and people who buy a SUV either to look "cool", or tow 5-ton trailers. (I think a Chevrolet Suburban is capable of this, but correct me if I'm wrong)

Mercedes-Benz, for example, has the G-Class (dedicated offroader) and the M-Class (a SUV better off on a tarmac road).

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Most modern SUV are a compromise between comfort & off road
capability. Dedicated off road vehicles should beat them easily.

Yes. Show me someone who actually believes that the modern, stock, brand-new SUV has any off-road competence, and I'll show you a bunch of kids who have gotten their stock rig stuck up to the running boards in mud.

The humongous soccer-mom SUVs have no off-road capability whatsoever. They're much too big and heavy, and their AWD system isn't really designed for off-road usage. For that matter, neither do the new car-based compact and midsize SUVs. They have an AWD system coupled with a high-geared car transmission. Those systems don't have the low-end torque or mechanical endurance necessary to handle anything other than snowy pavement. And even the more off-road oriented stock rigs (such as Jeeps) aren't going to do too well offroad unless you get the correct accessory package, and maybe some aftermarket modification (but only for severe stuff.)

[Peregrin Toker]

And even the more off-road oriented stock rigs (such as Jeeps) aren't going to do too well offroad unless you get the correct accessory package, and maybe some aftermarket modification (but only for severe stuff.)

Here's a list of "dedicated offroad vehicles":

http://poseur.4x4.org/good_bad.html#ORV

Notice how many of them are rather old vehicles, such as the Ford Bronco and International Scout??

[Queeb Salaron]

That must be an old site. New F-250s can be pretty hardcore.

[phongn]

The mid-90s Land Cruiser is also a good off-road performer, but Toyota later made changes which reduced that ability. My uncle has one immediately before that change.

Unimog is apparently quite good but very mechanically complex.

I've heard that the H2 is quite a good off-road performer, though of course not as good as the original Hummer/HMMWV

That list is somewhat annoying since it dismisses vehicles that are perfectly capable off-road but are primarily used by people who do not use them for that.

[Crayz9000]

Indeed. The Chevy Suburbans (the 4WD ones, that is) are more than capable of going off-road, and they do it well. Why else does the US Army use them as command vehicles?

That said, the older (1991 and before) Suburbans are somewhat better at it due to their fixed front and rear axles, instead of having independent front suspension. The center of gravity is also excellent for handling.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Indeed. The Chevy Suburbans (the 4WD ones, that is) are more than capable of going off-road, and they do it well. Why else does the US Army use them as command vehicles?

That said, the older (1991 and before) Suburbans are somewhat better at it due to their fixed front and rear axles, instead of having independent front suspension. The center of gravity is also excellent for handling.

That's a sight I'd pay good money to see . . . a Suburban going off-road. I suppose one could take it off-road within reason, like down rutted US Forest Service roads with half a foot of mud on 'em and six or seven inch high obstacles.

And yes, live axles may be shit for on-road handling and comfort, but they're great off-road due to the amount of suspension travel you can get out of a live axle compared to a pair of independent half-axles.

[Crayz9000]

That's a sight I'd pay good money to see . . . a Suburban going off-road. I suppose one could take it off-road within reason, like down rutted US Forest Service roads with half a foot of mud on 'em and six or seven inch high obstacles.

And yes, live axles may be shit for on-road handling and comfort, but they're great off-road due to the amount of suspension travel you can get out of a live axle compared to a pair of independent half-axles.

A lot of news stations use Suburbans instead of news vans for hard-to-access areas. I don't imagine that they exactly speed when they're off-road (all that delicate equipment) but they are useful. And far less likely to break down than a Ford.

Of course, if you're serious about off-roading in a Suburban or Blazer (the full-size one that is) you need to give it better ground clearance and beef up the suspension a bit... only a fool would think about taking a Suburban (or basically any vehicle short of a Humvee) off-road right from the car lot.