Japanese War Guilt Debate

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-17 09:19pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
weemadando wrote:The Japanese censoring of books is an act of political correctness, and a residual part of the denial of their culture and history that was spawned by the US occupation.
This excuses it how?

It doesn't, I'm merely pointing out that due to the supression of culture and history after World War 2, the Japanese mentality has become one of "just leave it alone and let everyone forget about it". There is the very real problem of the ultra-nationalists etc nowadays who would use such events to show just how great Japan once was, and the gov't cannot afford to lose control to them. However to some this is interpreted as "They are saying they never did it" and others as "Of course we never did it" or "of course we did it, but we aren't going to admit it."

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-17 10:39pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The ideal situation would've been to demonstrate the bomb without killing anyone. Then bomb the landing beaches.

One problem is that the USAAF didn't really know if the bomb would work operationally. They weren't willing to risk a demonstration strike that could backfire on them; instead they chose a raid on a city that had a bit more 'deniability'.

As for hitting a landing beach in Kyushu, that may have been ineffective as Japanese fortifications and terrain would have mitigated its effects. That might have the opposite effect intended Furthermore, it would give the Japanese final proof that Olympic was planned there. The US was still unclear about the total extent of Japanese foreknowledge and would seek to minimize it.

Then bomb the troop concentrations in the South. Then bomb a city.

We didn't have that many devices! We only had three warheads available.

Point is they could've waited, demonstrated--anything...they dropped to A-Bombs in less than a week and its debatable they had to drop another so rapidly.

Perhaps. On the other hand, after Hiroshima their government was arguing that we only had a limited number - implying that they could wear out any attack as we used up our highly-limited stockpile. It was a bit of a shock, to say the least, when we hit again so quickly.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-05-18 11:25am

Gandalf wrote:Do German textbooks mention their past atrocities in much detail?

Well, I don't know about the textbooks, but I went to germany once on a field trip with my history class, and from what I saw there is some serious guilt felt over there about what happened, and the lack of resistance towards it at the time.

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2003-05-18 02:55pm

phongn wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Point is they could've waited, demonstrated--anything...they dropped to A-Bombs in less than a week and its debatable they had to drop another so rapidly.
Perhaps. On the other hand, after Hiroshima their government was arguing that we only had a limited number - implying that they could wear out any attack as we used up our highly-limited stockpile. It was a bit of a shock, to say the least, when we hit again so quickly.

After Hiroshima, the military leadership assured the Emperor that the nuclear bomb was a one-shot and resistance should continue. The Emperor agreed...it was the second bomb that convinced him to override the military and order a surrender.

XthewillX · Post by **XthewillX** » 2003-05-19 06:19pm

Even though I was born here, in the US, my parents still made a point in informing me about the atrocities which were committed by the Japanese in World War II.

Turns out I had a granduncle who was in the Chinese army during WWII. Apparently, he had been captured and executed, after being slowhung to a tree, and torn to shreads by dogs.

Hilarious.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » 2003-05-19 08:54pm

Unlike some people here in the U.S., the Chinese (Koreans too for that matter) people have never forgotten or forgiven the Japanese for what they did before and during WW2. One of the reasons the Japanese goverment wants to keep american bases over there despite all the problems that they cause is that they know the Chinese cannot get too belligerent towards Japan as long as americans are over there.

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2003-05-19 09:51pm

Justin wrote:Unlike some people here in the U.S., the Chinese (Koreans too for that matter) people have never forgotten or forgiven the Japanese for what they did before and during WW2. One of the reasons the Japanese goverment wants to keep american bases over there despite all the problems that they cause is that they know the Chinese cannot get too belligerent towards Japan as long as americans are over there.

Certainly you must mean here more the older generation, right? After all, let's not bring up any crap that the Korean soldiers did during Vietnam.

XPViking

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-20 12:47am

[COPY AND PASTE]http://www.geocities.com/weemadnosh/Kamikaze.doc[/COPY AND PASTE]

An essay I just finished on the Kamikaze pilots of WW2, their motivations etc. Standard legal shit applies. If you copy it without correct referencing I will call No.47.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-20 01:08pm

Anders, it's Pearl Harbor, not "Harbour." It's a proper noun!

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-20 07:44pm

phongn wrote:Anders, it's Pearl Harbor, not "Harbour." It's a proper noun!

Bah! We shall not bow before your American Imperialism!

Harbour! Colour! And so on!

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-20 09:26pm

weemadando wrote:
phongn wrote:Anders, it's Pearl Harbor, not "Harbour." It's a proper noun!
Bah! We shall not bow before your American Imperialism!

Your Prime Minister is already our bitch! Your language is next!

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-05-20 09:58pm

phongn wrote:
weemadando wrote:
phongn wrote:Anders, it's Pearl Harbor, not "Harbour." It's a proper noun!
Bah! We shall not bow before your American Imperialism!
Your Prime Minister is already our bitch! Your language is next!

You know Ando, he's got you there.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-20 10:08pm

-prefers the british spelling, himself-

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-05-21 02:40am

Didnt the Japanese force women to become prostitutes to service There soldiers in Asia?

Lee3 · Post by **Lee3** » 2003-05-21 03:29am

Folks, I don't think the Japanese owe us apologies or anything else. The war has been over for nearly 60 years. Most of the people who made the decision to make war are dead. The people of present day Japan and Germany for that matter had nothing to do with this.

These countries made war on the allies and got beaten. They got their lumps. I don't see where an apology makes any difference, is particularly desireable, or is even appropriate.

They took measures they thought necessary to win. So did we.

Any apologies that could be made are an insult in comparison to the pain. Such an apology is inappropriate because the people responsible are dead, and their children certainly aren't obligated.

I've never been to Japan. I did live in Germany for some time and most Germans wanted to talk about either Vietnam, the holocaust, or given litres of beer, both. Good people...

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-05-21 05:23am

Ted wrote:
phongn wrote:
weemadando wrote: Bah! We shall not bow before your American Imperialism!
Your Prime Minister is already our bitch! Your language is next!
You know Ando, he's got you there.

Our PM is a tool, he is not reflective of the country and it's views and shit.

Mike Nugent for PM!!!
(That's me)

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-21 12:24pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:-prefers the british spelling, himself-

I generally prefer it as well, but the name of the place is a proper noun and thus subject to American, not British spelling conventions!

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2003-05-21 02:29pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Didnt the Japanese force women to become prostitutes to service There soldiers in Asia?

Yes. The fact that my grandmother was only twelve didn't stop them, either.

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2003-05-22 09:05pm

Jeremy wrote:I have heard the stories and personally I wouldn't be terribly troubled with ending the Japanese culture.

I am upset that we let the Japanese get off so easy, to be honest I would have taken all the children from their families and raised them in western ideology to put an end to that damned culture. What can you really do to punish such people but erase from existence their beliefs?

Where do you think Anime comes from? America has significantly altered the culture of Japan, but Japan seems to have come off better for it.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-05-25 08:31pm

Crazy_Vasey wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Do German textbooks mention their past atrocities in much detail?
Well, I don't know about the textbooks, but I went to germany once on a field trip with my history class, and from what I saw there is some serious guilt felt over there about what happened, and the lack of resistance towards it at the time.

It's very true. If you really want to get assfucked, just walk up to a cop in Germany and say "Sieg Heil". You'll be lucky to escape without a beating and a fine.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-05-25 08:34pm

Eleas wrote: It's very true. If you really want to get assfucked, just walk up to a cop in Germany and say "Sieg Heil". You'll be lucky to escape without a beating and a fine.

What, have you tried it on a dare or something and thus know from personal experience? *g*

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-05-25 08:36pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Eleas wrote: It's very true. If you really want to get assfucked, just walk up to a cop in Germany and say "Sieg Heil". You'll be lucky to escape without a beating and a fine.

What, have you tried it on a dare or something and thus know from personal experience? *g*

What does Seig Heil mean?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-25 08:36pm

Striderteen wrote:
Typhonis 1 wrote:Didnt the Japanese force women to become prostitutes to service There soldiers in Asia?
Yes. The fact that my grandmother was only twelve didn't stop them, either.

Of course the most recent Japanese texts books often say something to the effect that they volunteered and got a step up in life. This has pissed off South Korea a whole fucking lot to say the least.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-25 10:48pm

Gandalf wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Eleas wrote: It's very true. If you really want to get assfucked, just walk up to a cop in Germany and say "Sieg Heil". You'll be lucky to escape without a beating and a fine.
What, have you tried it on a dare or something and thus know from personal experience? *g*
What does Seig Heil mean?

Hail Victory.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-05-26 08:46am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Eleas wrote: It's very true. If you really want to get assfucked, just walk up to a cop in Germany and say "Sieg Heil". You'll be lucky to escape without a beating and a fine.

What, have you tried it on a dare or something and thus know from personal experience? *g*

Certainly not! Cops turn me off.

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Japanese War Guilt Debate

Japan and WWII

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