Metallica Fans - Need Help

[Queeb Salaron]

Ahem... Black Album forward sucked. I didnt even like Justice that much. Altough the Misfits covers on Garage are pretty good.

MEGADETH>METALLICA

heh. Ignorant fool.

The only reason Megadeath exists is because Dave Mustane is a violent drunk. Megadeath will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER have the chemistry that Metallica has.

Furthermore, I'd like to see Mustane and Hammet get into a guitar duel. And watch Mustane get his ass kicked.

[Rye]

Ahem... Black Album forward sucked. I didnt even like Justice that much. Altough the Misfits covers on Garage are pretty good.

MEGADETH>METALLICA

heh. Ignorant fool.

The only reason Megadeath exists is because Dave Mustane is a violent drunk. Megadeath will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER have the chemistry that Metallica has.

Furthermore, I'd like to see Mustane and Hammet get into a guitar duel. And watch Mustane get his ass kicked.

Heh. Ignorant fool. It's spelt Megadeth.

I apologise to calling you a fool, but it pisses me off when a band purposefully spells their name wrong and everyone else spells it right.

[Queeb Salaron]

heh. Ignorant fool.

The only reason Megadeath exists is because Dave Mustane is a violent drunk. Megadeath will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER have the chemistry that Metallica has.

Furthermore, I'd like to see Mustane and Hammet get into a guitar duel. And watch Mustane get his ass kicked.

Heh. Ignorant fool. It's spelt Megadeth.

I apologise to calling you a fool, but it pisses me off when a band purposefully spells their name wrong and everyone else spells it right.

You're gonna call me a fool for a spelling error on Dave Mustane's part? Come now... It just shows the increased level of intelligence that James Hetfield posesses. Er... "posessed." One too many bottles of Jaeger have lowered his IQ considerably from the "FUCK LA" days.

[thecreech]

Bah... Hammet is over rated. Mustane is beyond him. Mustane would destroy hammet

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

The US is using their songs as psy-ops weapons, I think that sums it up for me.

G.I. Joe's Garage... heh. Am I the first one to ever throw a Frank Zappa reference into a Metallica thread? Probably not, but I sure hope so!

In any case, it's time for me to rant on the subject of Metallica's "selling out" for a moment.

Load didn't have a lot of good music on it. Reload was better, although rumor has it the two albums were recorded back to back and originally meant to be a two-disc set, but were split into two seperate albums for some reason.

Now... IMO, Metallica did not sell out. They'd been doing the same style of music pretty consistently for somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen years up until the release of Load. They'd made their money. They could have retired at that point and never done another thing in their lives except for sit around on their pale, swelling asses if they had so chosen.
In other words, there's no reason I can think of why they desperately needed money at that point.

IMO, they felt they had something to prove -- maybe to the music industry, maybe to their fans, maybe only to themselves. They wanted to prove that they could do more than just heavy metal, and do it well. IMO, they've proven that, in spades. You may not like Metallica's alternative stuff, or their country stuff, or their ballads -- but I think you'll agree that all of that work is still as good, if not better, than the same styles as produced by other artists. In short, Metallica proved their credentials not just as hard-rockers, but as musicians.

I'm willing to bet that, just as Reload leaned further back into the hardcore direction of Metallica's roots, their next album will reveal further leanings back into that territory. I also predict that the hard tracks on the new album will carry some of Metallica's newer cross-musical influences to produce a sound with all the sophistication and raw power of their traditional style, but with more of the cross-polination of Load and Reload, giving us a sonic experience unmatched even by Pink Floyd or their stylistic descendant Tool.

[Queeb Salaron]

Bah... Hammet is over rated. Mustane is beyond him. Mustane would destroy hammet

::Sighs:: Excuse me. Who taught Hammet? Satriani. Satriani admitted that Hammet had surpassed him in skill in an interview with SPIN magazine, which was reprinted in Guitar Word (or maybe GuitarOne, I can't remember). And if you're gonna argue that Mustane is better than Satriani, then you're fucking nuts.

[thecreech]

Bah... Hammet is over rated. Mustane is beyond him. Mustane would destroy hammet

::Sighs:: Excuse me. Who taught Hammet? Satriani. Satriani admitted that Hammet had surpassed him in skill in an interview with SPIN magazine, which was reprinted in Guitar Word (or maybe GuitarOne, I can't remember). And if you're gonna argue that Mustane is better than Satriani, then you're fucking nuts.

Oh did satriani admitt that!!! holy shit your right because what ever satriani says must be true. Heaven forbid that anyone challenge kirk hammet from now on

[Queeb Salaron]

G.I. Joe's Garage... heh. Am I the first one to ever throw a Frank Zappa reference into a Metallica thread? Probably not, but I sure hope so!

You may just be.

In any case, it's time for me to rant on the subject of Metallica's "selling out" for a moment.

You certainly won't be the first to do THAT.

Load didn't have a lot of good music on it. Reload was better, although rumor has it the two albums were recorded back to back and originally meant to be a two-disc set, but were split into two seperate albums for some reason.

That's fact, not rumor. The RUMOR is that they cut a whole bunch of songs off the track list for both albums, and they were thinking about making a third Load-theme album called Unload. But that never happened.

Now... IMO, Metallica did not sell out. They'd been doing the same style of music pretty consistently for somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen years up until the release of Load.

Load wasn't the first. Need I remind you of Nothing Else Matters? The Black Album was way easier than anything they had ever done. Granted, it was still worlds harder than Load. But MetallicA fans saw a decline in heaviness beginning with the Black Album.

They'd made their money. They could have retired at that point and never done another thing in their lives except for sit around on their pale, swelling asses if they had so chosen.
In other words, there's no reason I can think of why they desperately needed money at that point.

Like Lars said, it's not about the money. If people can get the fruits of their labor for free, why can't average Joe walk into an auto shop and get a free tune-up?

IMO, they felt they had something to prove -- maybe to the music industry, maybe to their fans, maybe only to themselves. They wanted to prove that they could do more than just heavy metal, and do it well. IMO, they've proven that, in spades. You may not like Metallica's alternative stuff,

Sometimes I think that with their alternative stuff, they kinda played to the market rather than to their own musical tastes. That song from the Mission Impossible soundtrack was just... Forced.

or their country stuff,

Turn the Page was fantastic. But their best country-style song was their cover of Tuesday's Gone off Garage Inc. ::Drools:: Fanfuckingtastic.

or their ballads --

Ballads??

but I think you'll agree that all of that work is still as good, if not better, than the same styles as produced by other artists. In short, Metallica proved their credentials not just as hard-rockers, but as musicians.

They've always BEEN musicians, first and foremost. Look at the score to One and tell me that it's just a bunch of chord progressions. They are a four-man rock orchestra, not a band. James Hetfield and Kirk Hammet are composers, not songwriters. Lars Ulrich is a thunder god, not a drummer.

And if they can hold down a bassist for more than a couple of years, he's usually pretty good, too. (RIP, Cliff)

I'm willing to bet that, just as Reload leaned further back into the hardcore direction of Metallica's roots, their next album will reveal further leanings back into that territory.

As the French say, "Esperons-le."

I also predict that the hard tracks on the new album will carry some of Metallica's newer cross-musical influences to produce a sound with all the sophistication and raw power of their traditional style, but with more of the cross-polination of Load and Reload, giving us a sonic experience unmatched even by Pink Floyd or their stylistic descendant Tool.

MetallicA, as good as they are, will never have the art of Floyd or Tool. They are fantastic musicians, but they will never have the art that those two legendary bands has.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

I have to differ with you on that last point, Queeb. Take, for example, Metallica's instrumentals. Orion and The Thing That Should Not Be are easily in the same neighborhood as Tool, at least, and maybe even Maynard's Perfect Circle work. (Why haven't we seen more of them, by the way?)

Now, it may be hard to see how Metallica is in Floyd's league. I think that, even soft, Metallica does a whole different kind of thing than Pink Floyd does. In their respective styles, however, I'd put Metallica and Floyd on equal footing, with Tool being a sort of bridge between the two lately. (I'm referring, specifically, to the Perfect Circle work and Lateralus as this bridge between.)

EDIT: Let me add that it is the difference between these bands' influences as they affect the styles that really sets them apart. Tool and Pink Floyd, IMO, are very poetic. They deal primarily in their work with poetic themes -- love, hate, fear, and so on. Metallica strikes me as more of a literararily influenced, rather than poetically influenced phenomenon. Whereas Tool offers us "46 & 2", a somewhat introspective subject, Metallica offers "Of Wolf And Man" -- a piece which speaks not of the speaker regarding the speaker through the eye of poetry but to the listener regarding the speaker throug the eye of myth.

[Queeb Salaron]

Oh did satriani admitt that!!! holy shit your right because what ever satriani says must be true. Heaven forbid that anyone challenge kirk hammet from now on

Satriani is the best rock guitarist that has every graced the earth. Curl up under whatever rock you live under and die.

[Darth Fanboy]

debate all you want, Metallica still sucks and always will suck

[thecreech]

Oh did satriani admitt that!!! holy shit your right because what ever satriani says must be true. Heaven forbid that anyone challenge kirk hammet from now on

Satriani is the best rock guitarist that has every graced the earth. Curl up under whatever rock you live under and die.

Sure he is keep telling yourself that. It's all a matter of opinion don't get your panties in a ruffle well somebody tells you otherwise. By the why isn't hammet now the greatest rock guitarist that has ever graced the earth just because satriani said so...

[Queeb Salaron]

I have to differ with you on that last point, Queeb. Take, for example, Metallica's instrumentals. Orion and The Thing That Should Not Be are easily in the same neighborhood as Tool, at least, and maybe even Maynard's Perfect Circle work. (Why haven't we seen more of them, by the way?)

APC, as far as I know, was a one-shot side project. Not terribly serious, though I don't know why it isn't. They were fantastic.

Orion, maybe... But The Thing That Should Not Be is nowhere close to Tool. They're not even in the same ballpark. I mean, compare that song to Stinkfist, Aenima, Sober, Eulogy... Metallica is just not as creepy as Tool is. I happen to like Tool's creepiness a bit better than Metallica's apocalyptic crunch, but to each his own, I suppose.

I will give you this, though: Metallica is comprised of better musicians (save the drummers... I can't tell who is better there). Take Call of Ktulu and compare it to anything that Tool has ever done, and you'll see my point. Metallica uses guitars, Tool uses a bunch of effects. Metallica is minimalist, Tool is maximalist. Maximalists make good music, but generally speaking they're not musicians of the same ilk.

Now, it may be hard to see how Metallica is in Floyd's league. I think that, even soft, Metallica does a whole different kind of thing than Pink Floyd does. In their respective styles, however, I'd put Metallica and Floyd on equal footing, with Tool being a sort of bridge between the two lately. (I'm referring, specifically, to the Perfect Circle work and Lateralus as this bridge between.)

Well, for clarification's sake, APC and Tool are very different bands. Maynard is the only binding factor. The two have very different sounds.

And I can kind of see where you're coming from when you consider Tool in a strictly modern sense. I don't really see older Tool as a bridge between Floyd and Metallica; in fact, I see it as a progression that transcends both metal and art, and completely surpasses anything that either band had ever done. The band mimics Maynard's idea of paradise: An entity in which man and machine exist as one. Metallica is about the music that man can create with instruments, and Floyd is about the meaning they can give to that music. Tool is the opposite: They try to let the music give meaning to their musicianship. If that makes sense.

EDIT: Let me add that it is the difference between these bands' influences as they affect the styles that really sets them apart. Tool and Pink Floyd, IMO, are very poetic. They deal primarily in their work with poetic themes -- love, hate, fear, and so on. Metallica strikes me as more of a literararily influenced, rather than poetically influenced phenomenon. Whereas Tool offers us "46 & 2", a somewhat introspective subject, Metallica offers "Of Wolf And Man" -- a piece which speaks not of the speaker regarding the speaker through the eye of poetry but to the listener regarding the speaker throug the eye of myth.

Tool is introspective where Metallica is observational and creative. Hmm... Then how do you explain The Unforgiven?

[Queeb Salaron]

Sure he is keep telling yourself that. It's all a matter of opinion don't get your panties in a ruffle well somebody tells you otherwise. By the why isn't hammet now the greatest rock guitarist that has ever graced the earth just because satriani said so...

Come on... Mustane would never get those kinds of props from Satriani. Wolfe said that Hammet was one of the greatest guitarists he's ever seen. Eric Johnson repeatedly calls him "the student that surpassed the master." Even Vai called him the valedictorian of the school of Satriani... And Vai was a student, too!

[jegs2]

debate all you want, Metallica still sucks and always will suck

I think anything black album and beyond could fit that description, but certainly not their early albums. However, IOT fit your opinion in on the equation, how old are you, and what do you consider to be quality metal?

[thecreech]

Sure he is keep telling yourself that. It's all a matter of opinion don't get your panties in a ruffle well somebody tells you otherwise. By the why isn't hammet now the greatest rock guitarist that has ever graced the earth just because satriani said so...

Come on... Mustane would never get those kinds of props from Satriani. Wolfe said that Hammet was one of the greatest guitarists he's ever seen. Eric Johnson repeatedly calls him "the student that surpassed the master." Even Vai called him the valedictorian of the school of Satriani... And Vai was a student, too!

And your point is? Eddie van halen has been considered the greatest guitarist of all time to by many of his peers. Just recently Jimmy hendrix was voted the greatest guitarist of all time by Total Guitar magazine. Does it make him the greatest off all time, no way. I don't care if mustane would ever get props from satriani. It is my belief that Hammet surpassed him (Satriani) along time ago but would you take my word for it no. Here's a situation, What if Hammet said that Mustane was a better player would you just go off of that. I would hope not.

[Darth Fanboy]

debate all you want, Metallica still sucks and always will suck

I think anything black album and beyond could fit that description, but certainly not their early albums. However, IOT fit your opinion in on the equation, how old are you, and what do you consider to be quality metal?

Im Twenty, and i enjoy some Megadeth and Pantera

[Queeb Salaron]

And your point is? Eddie van halen has been considered the greatest guitarist of all time to by many of his peers. Just recently Jimmy hendrix was voted the greatest guitarist of all time by Total Guitar magazine. Does it make him the greatest off all time, no way.

True. But we're talking about guitarists who are currently still writing music.

I don't care if mustane would ever get props from satriani. It is my belief that Hammet surpassed him (Satriani) along time ago but would you take my word for it no. Here's a situation, What if Hammet said that Mustane was a better player would you just go off of that. I would hope not.

Hammet and Mustane's relationship is strange. Keep in mind that HAMMET REPLACED MUSTANE. So at least Metallica thinks that Hammet is the better guitarist, and considering the amazing musicianship of Hetfield and Ulrich, I'd trust their opinion.

Besides, go toe-to-toe with the guitar solos. I'm personally of the opinion that even Cliff Burton could whip out a more coherent guitar solo than Mustane. Listen to the intro and outro solos to "Sanitarium" and tell me that Mustane is a better guitarist.

[BrYaN19kc]

Metallica Fans - Need Help

I love that title........ and I totally agree that Metallica Fans need some kind of help.

I can't stand Metallica... heheheheheheheh

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Tool is introspective where Metallica is observational and creative. Hmm... Then how do you explain The Unforgiven?

Even Unforgiven's introspection is directed toward the audience from the POV of someone relating his tragic life story to another party. Sober, OTOH, includes the listener in what might be termed a "group introspection". This puts me in a logical grey area -- I'm not sure I can properly convey the difference, or if there even is a difference, objectively speaking. The difference is something I sense, and it may not be widely recognized.

[meNNis]

*snip*

...giving us a sonic experience unmatched even by Pink Floyd or their stylistic descendant Tool.

Don't compare Metallica with Tool. Ever. I like them both and am smart enough to realize the vast differences. Just don't go there. Don't.

[thecreech]

And your point is? Eddie van halen has been considered the greatest guitarist of all time to by many of his peers. Just recently Jimmy hendrix was voted the greatest guitarist of all time by Total Guitar magazine. Does it make him the greatest off all time, no way.

True. But we're talking about guitarists who are currently still writing music.

I don't care if mustane would ever get props from satriani. It is my belief that Hammet surpassed him (Satriani) along time ago but would you take my word for it no. Here's a situation, What if Hammet said that Mustane was a better player would you just go off of that. I would hope not.

Hammet and Mustane's relationship is strange. Keep in mind that HAMMET REPLACED MUSTANE. So at least Metallica thinks that Hammet is the better guitarist, and considering the amazing musicianship of Hetfield and Ulrich, I'd trust their opinion.

Besides, go toe-to-toe with the guitar solos. I'm personally of the opinion that even Cliff Burton could whip out a more coherent guitar solo than Mustane. Listen to the intro and outro solos to "Sanitarium" and tell me that Mustane is a better guitarist.

I know that hammet replaced mustane, but the only reason was that mustane was a violent drunk. If mustane wasn't a violent drunk it is highly unlikely that metallica would of replaced him. Mustane co-wrote alot of their songs from kill'em all and Call of Culthul (Sp?) on ride the lighting which is concidered one of metillica's best songs. Yeah i own master of puppets and sanitarium is a great song and if you believe that cliff burton could whip out a better guitar solo than mustane... well there isn't much to say about it. Just keep telling yourself that.

[meNNis]

Metallica Fans - Need Help

I love that title........ and I totally agree that Metallica Fans need some kind of help. [/qoute]

I can't stand Metallica... heheheheheheheh

And YOU my friend are an idiot with no taste.

[Darth Fanboy]

That was actually pretty funny.

Mennis, some people would say Metallica fans are idiots with no taste, and in fact some of them are.

While i've got you here I demand you explain how your account got hijacked, if in fact it was. Well fucker? waiting for an explanation.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

*snip*

...giving us a sonic experience unmatched even by Pink Floyd or their stylistic descendant Tool.

Don't compare Metallica with Tool. Ever. I like them both and am smart enough to realize the vast differences. Just don't go there. Don't.

Whoa! Hey, I'm glad to see you're passionate about music -- so am I. And I'd like to point out that I like them both, too. Aenima and Lateralus clearly demonstrate that Tool, in their maturity, are easily a match for or superior to almost anything being produced today. I'm not trying to slight them in the least. They are the best at what they do.

However, Tool and Metallica, for the most part, operate in very distinct genres of music. As Queeb pointed out, Metallica isn't so much heavy metal as it is hard orchestra. Tool's sound, on the other hand, strikes me more as alternating between hard ambience and electrometal, sometimes within a single track.

They both do different things, but IMHO they are equally good at what they do. No slight intended toward either group.