The Dominion vs. SW Clones

[Anarchist Bunny]

It looks plastic. It sounds like plastic when they move. It is called PLASTOID. Its not very insulated. They can be hurt by being clubbed by small furry animals. Trust me, its not metal or related to any kind of metal armor, found on the Knights Of The Round Table.

[/quote]

No one said it was metal(atleast no one informed on the subject). You know you can have a gem shaped stone, it looks like glass, it's clear, you can see through it, but it can still be a diamond. It looks plastic because the props were, but offical material tells us it isn't, it's plastoid and it's ment to protect from shrapenal(IIRC) much like a flak jacket(IIRC). Besides, you can be sitting in a fucking tank, smack that thing with a truck, and the tank probly won't be that hurt, but you can get fucked up by smacking around. It's not designed to take physical blows. Beside the strength of those small furry animals have already been showed to be good.(throwing around 25 pound(estimate) rocks like they were made of styrofoam).

[YT300000]

[quote:] Every component of the Stormtrooper's armour and equipment is manufactured to the highest standards in the Galactic Empire. The armour lasts indefinitely and may still be found half-buried at decades old battle sites.[/quote]

Not bio-degradable. Hmmm, sound like plastic to you?

[YT300000]

That was directed at Sovvie.

[Sovereign]

The soldiers of the Empire struck with frightening anonymity, their faces completely obscured by unmistakable white armor. While the 18-piece armored shell offers limited protection from blaster fire, it also serves as a weapon of terror.

The bone-white armor fits over a black temperature-control body glove. Built-in helmet comlinks supplemented by belt-mounted hand-held units ensure that stormtroopers are always in touch with their superiors. Standardized utility belts offer ammunition for blaster sidearms, and helpful tools such as grappling hooks and cable. Stormtrooper armor also serves as a limited space suit for protection against hard vacuum.

The Empire maintained a number of variant armor styles to fit different mission profiles. The armor of desert terrain units, cold assault divisions and scout squadrons are all slightly different.

Luke Skywalker and Han Solo took advantage of the faceless stormtrooper uniform when infiltrating the Death Star prior to the Battle of Yavin. They were able to surreptitiously enter the battle station's detention block to free a captive Princess Leia Organa.

The standard trooper helmet features automatic polarized lenses. Their utility belts feature concentrated rations, emergency batteries, a miniature thermal detonator and a spare comlink.

Stormtrooper helmets are equipped with a Multi-Frequency Targeting and Acquisition System (MFTAS). This allows them to see in low-light and obscured battle conditions.

(No where does it say that they can see heat or cloaked people. If they even know people or shuttles can cloak, since they did not believe the Falcon was big enough for a cloak)

[Master of Ossus]

The soldiers of the Empire struck with frightening anonymity, their faces completely obscured by unmistakable white armor. While the 18-piece armored shell offers limited protection from blaster fire, it also serves as a weapon of terror.

OMFG. You've shown that stormtrooper armor cannot stop blaster fire all the time, protecting the wearer within. SO WHAT? That indicates that it's not plastic with properties comparable to what we can make, today. Note that in ESB, stormtrooper fire blew holes the size of a fucking SOFTBALL out of a solid metal wall. Note that in ANH, blaster fire tore torso-sized chunks of a concrete-like material out of walls, and threw those chunks with considerable velocity. To even provide limited protection from blaster fire indicates extraordinary resistances, which are only confirmed by official material.

The bone-white armor fits over a black temperature-control body glove. Built-in helmet comlinks supplemented by belt-mounted hand-held units ensure that stormtroopers are always in touch with their superiors. Standardized utility belts offer ammunition for blaster sidearms, and helpful tools such as grappling hooks and cable. Stormtrooper armor also serves as a limited space suit for protection against hard vacuum.

Why are you citing evidence that supports the other side? Stormtrooper armor, according to official sources, can protect a trooper against hard-vacuum until he runs out of air in a couple minutes.

The Empire maintained a number of variant armor styles to fit different mission profiles. The armor of desert terrain units, cold assault divisions and scout squadrons are all slightly different.

Luke Skywalker and Han Solo took advantage of the faceless stormtrooper uniform when infiltrating the Death Star prior to the Battle of Yavin. They were able to surreptitiously enter the battle station's detention block to free a captive Princess Leia Organa.

The standard trooper helmet features automatic polarized lenses. Their utility belts feature concentrated rations, emergency batteries, a miniature thermal detonator and a spare comlink.

Stormtrooper helmets are equipped with a Multi-Frequency Targeting and Acquisition System (MFTAS). This allows them to see in low-light and obscured battle conditions.

(No where does it say that they can see heat or cloaked people. If they even know people or shuttles can cloak, since they did not believe the Falcon was big enough for a cloak)

So what? Are you claiming that any abilities NOT present in this one source are therefore not present in stormtrooper armor? Stormtrooper armor has been established to use infrared as one of its night-vision frequencies in other sources. Moreover, the cloaking would NOT be an advantage for either side. It is irrelevant. I have no idea what significance you are trying to attribute to it, but you have essentially acknowledged that stormtroopers are better than the JH at everything except a single worthless attribute.

[Darth Servo]

The soldiers of the Empire struck with frightening anonymity, their faces completely obscured by unmistakable white armor. While the 18-piece armored shell offers limited protection from blaster fire, it also serves as a weapon of terror.

Limited protection is still better that the non-existant protection given by the Federation's polyester pajamas.

The bone-white armor fits over a black temperature-control body glove. Built-in helmet comlinks supplemented by belt-mounted hand-held units ensure that stormtroopers are always in touch with their superiors. Standardized utility belts offer ammunition for blaster sidearms, and helpful tools such as grappling hooks and cable. Stormtrooper armor also serves as a limited space suit for protection against hard vacuum.

Still better than what anyone in Trek usually wears.

Stormtrooper helmets are equipped with a Multi-Frequency Targeting and Acquisition System (MFTAS). This allows them to see in low-light and obscured battle conditions.

(No where does it say that they can see heat or cloaked people. If they even know people or shuttles can cloak, since they did not believe the Falcon was big enough for a cloak)

What part of "Multi-Frequency" slipped by your little mind? Darth Maul's ship had a cloaking device.

[Steven Snyder]

Stormtrooper helmets are equipped with a Multi-Frequency Targeting and Acquisition System (MFTAS). This allows them to see in low-light and obscured battle conditions.

(No where does it say that they can see heat or cloaked people. If they even know people or shuttles can cloak, since they did not believe the Falcon was big enough for a cloak)

What part of "Multi-Frequency" don't you understand?

[Vympel]

What part of "Multi-Frequency" don't you understand?

Exactly he's a fucking idiot:

Low-Light: perfect for image intensification

Obscured: perfect for thermal imaging, or something similar

Multi-Frequency, Sovereign, you moron.

[Darth Servo]

What part of "Multi-Frequency" don't you understand?

Um, didn't I already ask him this?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

A full platoon, but since you are running this like a force sub instead of neutral ground, call it 150, same as the feds started off with.

Good number for this kind of battle.

Since they would be the defenders, why the fuck would it matter?

It would be the same as the feds. 150 troops set up.

Dark color doesn't mean shit against IR, and show cloaking would fool clone helmets

What makes everyone think the Jem'Hadar can be seen in those helmets? Fed scans can hardly find them, unless they are right on top of them. That would include heat scans.

Prove it.

AR-558 was not guerrilla war numb nuts.

Fine, call it trench warfare for all I give a fuck, this is war, go with it.

Concession Accepted.

Amazingly, quite a few people disagree with you. And I want to know how the founders are going to get past the security to do this, when it is established that cheap scanners can detect shape shifters.

When was a time a scanner picked one up? Everytime they show a Founder, they take DNA samples, or low based energy weapons to make them come out of hiding (like in the Fed Presidents room).

Which matters for shit against a guy in armor using a ranged weapon.

Plastic Armor, how very powerful that is

Plastoid Composite armor. Concidering how SW names have little to do with the device itself, I doubt this is plastic.

And which won't matter for shit because the AT-TEs will just go right over them like they were designed to do.

No Mechs in a small cave.

Scale it.

I wonder how well that will work against the sensors in the Clones helmet.

What makes everyone think the Jem'Hadar can be seen in those helmets? Fed scans can hardly find them, unless they are right on top of them. That would include heat scans.

Prove it. Tricorders seem manly to use active scanning.

So, do you spend alot of time thinking about sex with Trek characters?

Why dont you go watch Princess Lay-ya get it on with Pizza the hut in that metal bikini you sick fuck.

You brought it up.

No, it takes a few months to grow a clone, and 10 years to train one, until they get flash imprinting. Then it's about a year.

It takes 3 days for a Jem'Hadar to grow and reach its full fighting age. The Vorta take just as long but are made for command.[/quote\

And they both suck.

Or better yet, show what difference this would make. The Empire has had to deal with infiltrators all the time; their procedures and equipment are robust enough that a lone infiltrator could not do much damage. And bio-sensors would keep them out of sensitive areas anyway.

If sensors could detect one anyway.

Star wars has shape shifters. I don't see why the Founders will be different.

It's worse than that. Why didn't they try to move to high ground and use binoculars? Or if they couldn't get to a clear line of sight on foot, why couldn't they scout the site from orbit with telescopes before dropping off their troops? The all-powerful Dominion apparently can't match the United States' spy satellite capabilities.

There was a battle in orbit with the USS Defiant, they just transported troops just outside the feds area and prepaired for battle. Why would they use binoculars anyway? The whole point was to make them attack so they could see where everyone is, and how much fire power they have left. Oh and it still takes place in caves, no mountains to climb.

Infrared'll pick 'em up. People always forget that Nog picked up the Jemmies in "Rocks and Shoals" on his tricorder; they're not hard to pick up as long as you're using something more sophisticated than the Mark 1 Eyeball.

You meen he detected them just before they were ambushed.

Stop making claims and give me a range. Attacked from a distance? HtH?

Perhaps more to the point, why does Sovereign think that wild-eyed aggression makes a good soldier? Clonetroopers can follow orders and maintain discipline. Jem'Hadar "soldiers" are drug-addled morons who start fighting each other if they don't get their fix. That is NOT a disciplined army. And an undisciplined army is an ineffective army.

A savage attitude can be very dangerous, no matter how sophisticated you are. Read "Lord of the Flies".

Read a history book. Fanatics are no match against a well trained army. Like Isreal.

[Shroom Man 777]

Okay, savage attitude is very dangerous no matter how sophisticated you are, eh?

So let's say we have this mad crazed african man eater fighting against a stormie, who will win?

Man eater is armed with a spear, stormie with his traditional blaster?

The only instance when savage armies defeated sophisticated armies is when they develop the strategies and tactics to outwit the enemy and give him enough a disadvantage to waste with the savages' crude weapons.

But in this case the Klawns are highly sophisticated, highly disciplined and well organized and also they have great combat strategies and tactics.

From what I heard these Dominion dudes are less organized, less well armed, less disciplined, and also their strategies are on the level of redshirts. Oh, of course, they are savage, how can I forget that.

Odds are the Klawns (Clone Troopers) will pwn the shape shifting savage sissies.

[Sovereign]

Read a history book. Fanatics are no match against a well trained army. Like Isreal.

The Zulu Army in Africa was able to fight and push back British forces in 1878. It was the last time a modern day army was destroyed by savages.

Star wars has shape shifters. I don't see why the Founders will be different.

The Founders are liquid. The Shape Shifter in AOTC did not turn into liquid and slime over the floor. Her arm was physically cut off. She was more of a chameleon.

You brought it up.

I quoted him and made a sick comment back, I didnt start that.

Prove it. Tricorders seem manly to use active scanning.

In The Siege of AR-558 Tricorders are unable to detect Jem'Hadar, and they use Nog's Ferangi Ears to Hear them comming, but even that is too late. One man dies, the other, is helps Nog escape when he goes down, and loses his leg.

Prove it.

See Above.


Also, everyone feels that the Clones are superior because they do not need drugs to keep them calm, but what about SW Clone Madness? Apparently Clones go insane after a while on SW. Jem'Hadar are kept calm with drugs, and when they are older, they can break the drug addiction. Most dont live that long though.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Read a history book. Fanatics are no match against a well trained army. Like Isreal.

The Zulu Army in Africa was able to fight and push back British forces in 1878. It was the last time a modern day army was destroyed by savages.

You give an example over 120 years ago and even it admit it was the LAST TIME a modern army lost?

The Founders are liquid. The Shape Shifter in AOTC did not turn into liquid and slime over the floor. Her arm was physically cut off. She was more of a chameleon.

How would this change detection? Besides, shapeshifters don't have to be liquid.

In The Siege of AR-558 Tricorders are unable to detect Jem'Hadar, and they use Nog's Ferangi Ears to Hear them comming, but even that is too late. One man dies, the other, is helps Nog escape when he goes down, and loses his leg.



See Above.

That it using IR!

Also, everyone feels that the Clones are superior because they do not need drugs to keep them calm, but what about SW Clone Madness? Apparently Clones go insane after a while on SW. Jem'Hadar are kept calm with drugs, and when they are older, they can break the drug addiction. Most dont live that long though.

Fuck off liar. Clone Madness only happens if you grow a clone under a year. This doesn't happen with the 10 year Clone Troopers.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Also, everyone feels that the Clones are superior because they do not need drugs to keep them calm, but what about SW Clone Madness? Apparently Clones go insane after a while on SW.

Again, you have done the research of a 4th grade science paper. SW clones only go insane if they were pulled out of the tube too early IIRC. For example, Joruus Ca'both. Thrawn was able to counteract this buy putting Yasimalir(something like that) and removing them from the force while they grew, allowed them to me made, perfectly sane, in 2 weeks, IIRC.

[YT300000]

The Zulu Army in Africa was able to fight and push back British forces in 1878. It was the last time a modern day army was destroyed by savages.

It was the last time that happened, because a few decades later, there were machine guns. IIRC, SW has machine gun analogs.

The Founders are liquid. The Shape Shifter in AOTC did not turn into liquid and slime over the floor. Her arm was physically cut off. She was more of a chameleon.

Zam was a Clawdite. Better shapeshifters, like Shi'Idos can change their entire sizes by a huge amount.

In The Siege of AR-558 Tricorders are unable to detect Jem'Hadar, and they use Nog's Ferangi Ears to Hear them comming, but even that is too late. One man dies, the other, is helps Nog escape when he goes down, and loses his leg.

And this relates to SW sensors, how?

Also, everyone feels that the Clones are superior because they do not need drugs to keep them calm, but what about SW Clone Madness? Apparently Clones go insane after a while on SW.

Only if they are grown in less than a year, without ysalamiri around their spartii cylinders.

[KhyronTheBackstabber]

Also, everyone feels that the Clones are superior because they do not need drugs to keep them calm, but what about SW Clone Madness? Apparently Clones go insane after a while on SW.

Boba Fett didn't go mad.

[YT300000]

Damn. I thought that for once, I would be the first to pounce on Sovereign's stupidity.

[Sovereign]

Boba Fett didn't go mad.

Boba was cloned to be a natural human who grew like a natural human. He was not made like the others.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Damn. I thought that for once, I would be the first to pounce on Sovereign's stupidity.

Oh well, atleast you posted those points first.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Boba Fett didn't go mad.

Boba was cloned to be a natural human who grew like a natural human. He was not made like the others.

DIPSHIT. There were two or three posts on why a FEW clone go insane, and only would result from accidents or incompitence, and you choose this one to counter.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Boba Fett didn't go mad.

Boba was cloned to be a natural human who grew like a natural human. He was not made like the others.

DIPSHIT. There were two or three posts on why a FEW clone go insane, and only would result from accidents or incompitence, and you choose this one to counter.

And another thing, clone insanity is a result of pulling out of the tube too early, so no matter how he was raised he would still be doomed to insanity.

[Joe Momma]

Read a history book. Fanatics are no match against a well trained army. Like Isreal.

The Zulu Army in Africa was able to fight and push back British forces in 1878. It was the last time a modern day army was destroyed by savages.

The only times the Zulus won engagements were when they outnumbered the British forces 10 to 1. Christ, at Rourke's Drift the Zulus outnumbered the British 4-1 and still got pwned, losing almost 20 guys for every Brit they whacked. And it all went downhill from there as the Brits started sending in more men.

Two Delta snipers held back a Somali mob for over two hours in Mogadishu during the Battle of the Black Sea, even though the Somali mob was apparently in a savage mood.

If being a savage is a fucking advantage, I'd hate to see what a drawback looks like.

-- Joe Momma

[Master of Ossus]

The Founders are liquid. The Shape Shifter in AOTC did not turn into liquid and slime over the floor. Her arm was physically cut off. She was more of a chameleon.

Explain what difference this would make, in terms of scanning abilities. You have drawn a distinction, now show what the difference is that it would entail.

In The Siege of AR-558 Tricorders are unable to detect Jem'Hadar, and they use Nog's Ferangi Ears to Hear them comming, but even that is too late. One man dies, the other, is helps Nog escape when he goes down, and loses his leg.

Irrelevant. ST tricorders do NOT use passive infrared scanning, as shown by several episode.s They can only scan using active methods.

Also, everyone feels that the Clones are superior because they do not need drugs to keep them calm, but what about SW Clone Madness? Apparently Clones go insane after a while on SW.

You fool. You have no idea what clone madness is, and you FURTHER don't realize that it is easily preventable. The descriptions of it in HttE and similar books clearly demonstrate that the clone-troopers of AotC would NOT suffer from such problems.

Please try to research your material, next time.

Jem'Hadar are kept calm with drugs, and when they are older, they can break the drug addiction. Most dont live that long though.

Not true. Only ONE JH has EVER been able to "break" the addiction. He was a genetic anomaly. He was unintentional. An organized group of JH would never have been able to accomplish this, in the way that SW clone-troopers are able to go without resupply for days or even weeks.

[Master of Ossus]

Boba Fett didn't go mad.

Boba was cloned to be a natural human who grew like a natural human. He was not made like the others.

Clone madness is preventable by the canonical measures the Kaminoans were taking to grow the clone army. Shut the fuck up, unless you know what you're typing.

[Shroom Man 777]

Don't the Klawn helmets have auditory enhancements?