Parents Kill Son in 'Exorcism'

Enricko · Post by **Enricko** » 2003-05-23 02:52pm

If ignorance is bliss, demon chasers must be in nirvana.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-23 02:55pm

Korvan wrote:For the crime of manslaughter, 4 years is a reasonable sentence, but was the crime manslaughter?
I found this definition of manslaughter in a legal dictionary:

Accidental homicide or homicide which occurs without an intent to kill, and which does not occur during the commission of another crime or under extreme provocation.
Their intent was not to kill their son, but from their statements, I gather that they thought it was an acceptable trade-off. Furthermore, since forcibly restraining someone is a crime in itself, the appropiate charge would be felony murder.

Felony murder requires the death of someone during the commission of another crime (in this case, forceable restraint) and does not require any sort of intent.

I couldn't find any info on sentencing (not that I looked that hard), but I'd imagine the sentence for felony murder is a tad harsher.

I would imagine that since they did plead guilty, they got a lighter sentence than what would have been asken for had it had gone to trial.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-23 02:55pm

Lagmonster wrote:While Olrik has a point, inasmuch as one cannot blame religion wholesale for the actions of the individuals, I disagree on a key point: Religion is the blinder that prevents people from making otherwise rational decisions.

I've seen intelligent scientists with powerful objective minds wander home at night and belittle their wives because they believe it is their Biblical right to do so. Who are very competent researchers, yet believe in the global atheist conspiracy.

If you remove religion, you remove an entire impetus for behaviour. Without their belief in demonic possession, do you think this kid would have been tied up in a basement for acting wierd, or would he have been taken to a psychiatrist or a family counsellor?

You actually have a very good point there, though there is no tangible guarantee that mentally-unsound individuals wouldn't do something abhorrent anyways...

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-05-23 07:52pm

All witness' who came to pray at the house should be made accessories to the crime. Shit like this is unexeptable.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-23 08:38pm

Maybe they did believe what they where doing was right. In which case they are insane and should be locked away from the rest of their lives in a mental institution.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-23 08:51pm

Holy shit. Just 4 years?

Where are the assault and battery charges? Mental anguish? Good samitaran laws? Anything?

Those fuckers got off too easy. Lock and load.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-05-23 09:22pm

But there was a bizarre incident when the normally quiet teen went to the front of a religious meeting in Toronto and took the microphone to profess his devotion to Christ — then spoke gibberish.

Hey, he's speaking in tongues!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-23 09:28pm

Exonerate wrote:
But there was a bizarre incident when the normally quiet teen went to the front of a religious meeting in Toronto and took the microphone to profess his devotion to Christ — then spoke gibberish.
Hey, he's speaking in tongues!

Hmm, it seems to occur a lot when guys speak to hot chicks also.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2003-05-23 09:39pm

Sick fuckers...24 witnesses and one didn't do a thing. Real smart or rather rel stupid..

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-05-23 09:51pm

EvilGrey wrote:I'm amazed that so many of latch onto this as an opportunity to deride religion when the real problem was the mental instability of those people. Blaming religion and ignoring the dangerous problems that can arise from mental problems is foolish.

You have to remember that exorcism is not a normal consequence of paranoid parenting. If you have a paranoid parent whose child is rebeling, talking back, smoking cigarettes and looking at pornography, that parent will not deem that the child is possessed by Satan and attempt an exorcism unless he has strong Christian beliefs.

Religious beliefs are not necessarily the cause of the paranoia in these parents, but it was responsible for the fatal actions that came about as a result of that paranoia.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-05-23 09:52pm

Captain Lennox wrote:Sick fuckers...24 witnesses and one didn't do a thing. Real smart or rather rel stupid..

Couldn't they be charged with violating Good Samaritan laws?

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-23 10:03pm

I still hold to my opinion that organized religion is a "get out of jail free card" for assholes and other assorted jerks. Both that it gives them a reason to justify their behavior, and as a literal ticket out of the big house.

Absolutely disgusting. It's shit like that that makes me want wish we used good old fashioned execution methods.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-05-23 10:24pm

Durandal wrote:
Captain Lennox wrote:Sick fuckers...24 witnesses and one didn't do a thing. Real smart or rather rel stupid..
Couldn't they be charged with violating Good Samaritan laws?

Are there Good Samaritan laws up there? If so, then everyone that went there to "pray" for him should be charged. Of course, they might just use the same "God said so" excuse the son't parents used to get 4 years.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-23 10:52pm

Judges have extreme disgression here. It's a serious problem in the entire legal system.

If the judge is a "social drinker" and you're a DUI in court for killing a mother and maiming her 3 month old baby for life, you'll get a slap on the wrist. If the judge is the father of a DUI victim and you're in court for the same crime, you'll get ass-raped (literally).

If the judge is a religious fanatic and you're in court for killing your son while trying to "exorcise" demons from him, you'll get a slap on the wrist. If the judge is an atheist and you're in court for the same thing, you'll get ass-raped.

The system needs to be fixed so that judges can't basically decide what the law is going to be at any given moment.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-23 11:22pm

Darth Wong wrote:Judges have extreme disgression here. It's a serious problem in the entire legal system.

If the judge is a "social drinker" and you're a DUI in court for killing a mother and maiming her 3 month old baby for life, you'll get a slap on the wrist. If the judge is the father of a DUI victim and you're in court for the same crime, you'll get ass-raped (literally).

If the judge is a religious fanatic and you're in court for killing your son while trying to "exorcise" demons from him, you'll get a slap on the wrist. If the judge is an atheist and you're in court for the same thing, you'll get ass-raped.

The system needs to be fixed so that judges can't basically decide what the law is going to be at any given moment.

Interesting. I'd like to be a judge. But alas, I would have to go to law school (and we all know how hideously expensive that is.)

Don't worry; I'd be a great judge.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-05-23 11:52pm

Darth Wong wrote:Judges have extreme disgression here. It's a serious problem in the entire legal system.

If the judge is a "social drinker" and you're a DUI in court for killing a mother and maiming her 3 month old baby for life, you'll get a slap on the wrist. If the judge is the father of a DUI victim and you're in court for the same crime, you'll get ass-raped (literally).

If the judge is a religious fanatic and you're in court for killing your son while trying to "exorcise" demons from him, you'll get a slap on the wrist. If the judge is an atheist and you're in court for the same thing, you'll get ass-raped.

The system needs to be fixed so that judges can't basically decide what the law is going to be at any given moment.

It sucks, but I don't see an alternative. One cannot prescribe a single sentance for any and every case of a crime.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-24 12:30am

I would prefer to see tougher lower limits for sentencing, but that is not in the hands of the federal government, I don't think...

Hethrir · Post by **Hethrir** » 2003-05-24 12:47am

The saddest part is that the parents probably thought they did the right thing, and could be capable of doing it again. It's a pity there's not a de-fundaMENTALisation Christian course to get them back to normal beliefs.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-05-24 12:52am

Did you notice that they still felt they basically did the right thing, because "the demon left his body"? They still insist it was an overall good thing to do, and the judge seemed to buy that, which I can only interpret to mean that the judge himself is a fundie.

Fundies shouldn't be judges; to be a fundie is proof of stupidity.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-24 11:03am

Acacia wrote:The boys sister is mentally ill, I can't believe it didn't occur to them that perhaps he was developing an illness of his own.

When you look at the family and the parents, mental illness is hardly a shocking condition.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-24 11:08am

AdmiralKanos wrote:Fundies shouldn't be judges; to be a fundie is proof of stupidity.

Unfortunately, this isn't something recognized by mainstream society.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-05-24 03:10pm

Howedar wrote:It sucks, but I don't see an alternative. One cannot prescribe a single sentance for any and every case of a crime.

Narrowing the range of the sentence would be a start. If a parent locked his child in a closet for seven days without giving him anything but the barest of essentials, he'd be locked up for 50 or more years for parental negligence. Yet, if that parent prayed while locking his child up, suddenly it gets cut down to four.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-24 03:29pm

AdmiralKanos wrote:Did you notice that they still felt they basically did the right thing, because "the demon left his body"? They still insist it was an overall good thing to do, and the judge seemed to buy that, which I can only interpret to mean that the judge himself is a fundie.

Fundies shouldn't be judges; to be a fundie is proof of stupidity.

Fundamentalist atheists being no exception, right?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-24 05:32pm

EvilGrey wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote:Did you notice that they still felt they basically did the right thing, because "the demon left his body"? They still insist it was an overall good thing to do, and the judge seemed to buy that, which I can only interpret to mean that the judge himself is a fundie.

Fundies shouldn't be judges; to be a fundie is proof of stupidity.
Fundamentalist atheists being no exception, right?

What is a fundamentalist atheist? Could you point me to the Scriptures of atheism which are quoted as absolute truth and whose various semantic interpretations inspire fanatical intolerance and schisms among atheists? I was not aware of such documents.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-24 06:23pm

Darth Wong wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote:Did you notice that they still felt they basically did the right thing, because "the demon left his body"? They still insist it was an overall good thing to do, and the judge seemed to buy that, which I can only interpret to mean that the judge himself is a fundie.

Fundies shouldn't be judges; to be a fundie is proof of stupidity.
Fundamentalist atheists being no exception, right?
What is a fundamentalist atheist? Could you point me to the Scriptures of atheism which are quoted as absolute truth and whose various semantic interpretations inspire fanatical intolerance and schisms among atheists? I was not aware of such documents.

The personal convictions of rabid atheists take the place of scriptures, which, more often than not, are regarded as absolutes by the individual holding them. Stalin, among others, is an example of a fundie atheist; interestingly, his malevolence can never be matched by a fundamentalist theist of an enlightened religion.

There are also various groups and organizations whose primary tenet is adherence to atheism, and whose primary mission is to destroy civilization.