Greatest Fighter of WWII?

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-05-24 04:49pm

I voted for the P-51. It was temperamental at the hands of an unskilled pilot, but, at the hands of an experienced pilot, a very deadly, stable, platform, capable of taking on any opposition and win, plus, it had a very, very, long range, essential for the 8th Air Force doctrine. The fact that it stayed on USAAF, later USAF, inventory well into the 50's is a proof good enough of its value.

As for my favorite? The FW-190.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-24 07:10pm

Here's something interesting.

WW2 aircraft training films online

Pretty cool.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-05-24 07:12pm

I voted spitfire. They're just plain cool

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-05-24 07:17pm

The thing is though, wasn't the Mustang designed by the Brits?

I know they were the first to order it.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-24 07:23pm

The thing is though, wasn't the Mustang designed by the Brits?

It was an American design to fulfill a British order, but the original aircraft was unsatifactory due to the performance of the first engine used.

The Mustang became an outstanding plane when mated up with the Rolls Royce Merlin engine. Allison produced it under license.

You can say that it's half British.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-24 07:23pm

Glocksman wrote:
The thing is though, wasn't the Mustang designed by the Brits?
It was an American design to fulfill a British order, but the original aircraft was unsatifactory due to the performance of the Allison engine.

The Mustang became an outstanding plane when mated up with the Rolls Royce Merlin engine. Allison produced it under license.

You can say that it's half British.

Gah. Hit the wrong button. Could this post be deleted?

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-24 07:25pm

Glocksman wrote:
The thing is though, wasn't the Mustang designed by the Brits?

It was an American design to fulfill a British order, but the first ones produced were unsatifactory due to the performance of the Allison engine.

The Mustang became an outstanding plane when mated up with the Rolls Royce Merlin engine. Allison produced it under license.

You can say that it's half British.

Delete this one too. Christ!

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-24 07:30pm

I can't decide to be honest, too many choices and differing designs and missions etc.

I could pick my favourite for each nation though.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-05-24 08:06pm

P-38 is top, then F-6F, then P-51.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-24 08:15pm

Vympel wrote:The problem was that the weight increased while the wing loading remained the same. Not good for a fighter, which is independent of how much they beefed up the engine.

Uhmm, you can't increase weight and keep wing loading the same without increasing wing area. Those rounded wingtips don't especially count.

I'm going Fw 190, in memory of a certain Ta 152 I'll never see again...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-24 08:16pm

Glocksman wrote:
It was an American design to fulfill a British order, but the original aircraft was unsatifactory due to the performance of the first engine used.

The US used them with success as tactical bombers in the Mediterranean.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-24 08:43pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Glocksman wrote:
It was an American design to fulfill a British order, but the original aircraft was unsatifactory due to the performance of the first engine used.
The US used them with success as tactical bombers in the Mediterranean.

Yup. The Allison engine in it's normally aspirated form performed well below 13,000 feet, the B model was an excellent ground attack plane.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-05-24 11:58pm

Frank Hipper wrote: Uhmm, you can't increase weight and keep wing loading the same without increasing wing area. Those rounded wingtips don't especially count.

That's the point. It got heavier and heavier but the wings remained the same. Not good.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-05-25 12:08am

Vympel wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote: Uhmm, you can't increase weight and keep wing loading the same without increasing wing area. Those rounded wingtips don't especially count.
That's the point. It got heavier and heavier but the wings remained the same. Not good.

Then the wing loading is increasing.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-25 02:04am

Frank Hipper wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Glocksman wrote:
It was an American design to fulfill a British order, but the original aircraft was unsatifactory due to the performance of the first engine used.
The US used them with success as tactical bombers in the Mediterranean.
Yup. The Allison engine in it's normally aspirated form performed well below 13,000 feet, the B model was an excellent ground attack plane.

The B-model had a Merlin. The A-Model was the Allison powered version.
The Allison engined model did perform well (better than the Merlin version) at low altitudes.

The Allison-engined planes simply would not have been able to escort the high altitude B-17's and B-24's to Germany and back the way the Merlin engined models did.

Only 310 of the A model were built while over 3800 B models were produced.

Note:
I was in error when I stated that the Merlin was made by Allison. It was actually made by Packard in the US under license from Rolls Royce.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-25 02:12am

I'm also partial to the P47 Thunderbolt because it was built locally during the war.

P-47 trivia question:

During the war, the Republic plant here built P47's whose model designations ended in -RA (ex. P-47D-RA).

After the war, Republic sold the factory and it is now a Whirlpool refrigerator plant.

Where am I?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-25 02:24am

Glocksman wrote:I'm also partial to the P47 Thunderbolt because it was built locally during the war.

P-47 trivia question:

During the war, the Republic plant here built P47's whose model designations ended in -RA (ex. P-47D-RA).

After the war, Republic sold the factory and it is now a Whirlpool refrigerator plant.

Where am I?

North America

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-25 10:33pm

Howedar wrote:P-38 is top, then F-6F, then P-51.

Nitpick: It's "F6F" not "F-6F"

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-26 03:37am

Since no one cared to guess where the Republic plant was, I'll tell you.

Evansville, Indiana.

Evansville built P-47D-40-RA

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-05-26 05:43am

While several person said her that the FW-190, especially the A4 version had excellent manouverability I must disagree with it.

The FW-190 A4 -especially at high altitude- could produce sudden "movements". That "error" was slightly corrected at the A9 model.

Green pilots never got FW-190s (of course near the end of the war, when they were short of pilots is another case), they were using the Bf-109 series because it has really smooth handling and no sudden tricks.

Otherwise the FW-190 is my favourite fighter.

While it's heavily armed, it's still pretty fast.

@Vympel: You said a fighter doesn't need armament bigger then 20 mm cannons. (Something like this)

Several german reports said that 20 mm projectile were bouncing of from the IL-2's armor (of course not always) and a B-17 or a B-24 can fly away with a burst of 20 mm bullets in it's belly.

That's where 30 mm cannons do their trick.

That's what later FW-190s were armed with.

Beside the heavy armament, the plane can take quite a lot hit before it went down.
The star-engine itself can take several shot without being out of order.

Overall it's a heavy-duty "warcraft".

It did it's job well.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-26 05:44am

My vote goes to the P-38 lightning.

Twin engines, long range, concentrated firepower (in the nose), and it could bomb, fight and launch rocket attacks. There is even a reference to the plane being tested for use to launch torpedo attacks against ships; too bad the link is being elusive right now...

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-26 07:26am

Who voted for the Zero? And the Yak?

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-05-26 07:28am

EmperorMing wrote:My vote goes to the P-38 lightning.

Twin engines, long range, concentrated firepower (in the nose), and it could bomb, fight and launch rocket attacks. There is even a reference to the plane being tested for use to launch torpedo attacks against ships; too bad the link is being elusive right now...

While I like the shape of it very much I don't think it was a really successful dogfighter in the late years of WWII.

Because of it's long range, escort duty was one of it's primary role but the craft was heavy and not so good manouverable, so dogfight was not the best role for it.

That's why the P-38 was rather used for ground assault missions after the appearance of the P-51 Mustang which had an excellent flight range also.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2003-05-26 07:55am

Frank Hipper wrote:Who voted for the Zero? And the Yak?

The Yak-9 Series has some great fighters. The Yak-9U is one of the best
fighters of WW2. The only real choices are the Bf109 and the Spitfire.
They are the only crafts that were are serious threat during the entire
WW2. P-51 is overrated - crappy armament by 1944 standards + very
vulnerable to enemy fire. I take a Yak-9U over the P-51 anyday.

Best fighter by country ignoring years in service

Germany : Ta152
UK: Spitfire
US: P-38
SU: La7
JA: Ki-84

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-26 08:08am

Surprised no one mentioned the Typhoon/Tempest even if they were ground attack, they were effective.

The Sea Fury was related to them and served well in Korea too, one of the few prop planes to shoot down a jet.