Parents Kill Son in 'Exorcism'

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-24 06:24pm

Darth Wong wrote: What is a fundamentalist atheist? Could you point me to the Scriptures of atheism which are quoted as absolute truth and whose various semantic interpretations inspire fanatical intolerance and schisms among atheists? I was not aware of such documents.

There generally called textbooks

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-24 06:47pm

EvilGrey wrote:The personal convictions of rabid atheists take the place of scriptures, which, more often than not, are regarded as absolutes by the individual holding them.

If they can back up those convictions with arguments, more power to them. Or are you saying that it's actually worse for each person to make up his own mind than to mindlessly follow some document written by long-dead people?

Stalin, among others, is an example of a fundie atheist;

Communist, actually. Saying he was a fundie atheist is like saying he was a fundie mathematician because he believed in mathematics. His principal ideology was communism, idiot.

interestingly, his malevolence can never be matched by a fundamentalist theist of an enlightened religion.

Try Hitler, dumb-ass.

There are also various groups and organizations whose primary tenet is adherence to atheism, and whose primary mission is to destroy civilization.

No, there is no such thing as "adherence to atheism"; atheism tells you what NOT to believe, not what TO believe.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-05-24 06:59pm

His parents, devoutly religious members of a Pentecostal church that believes in such manifestations, knew that much to be true.

The first problem.

They had seen their shy 19-year-old son engage in behaviours that could only signal the presence of Satan.

Anything that's not included in the Bible...

They had no idea the seven days of forced confinement it took to drive away the devil would also, literally, drain the life out of Walter.

The second problem..

Yesterday, the squarely cut shoulders of Mr. Zepeda-Cordero heaved silently as a judge sentenced him and Mr. Osegueda to four years in penitentiary for the ritual that caused the death of the teen.

Err.. ONLY four years?

When someone sat in his chair for a haircut, they could expect a sermon. "If they'd go for it, he'd talk about it," she said. "But sometimes customers got peeved off."

Not surprisingly...

Some of it was normal kid stuff. Walter went to discos and smoked cigarettes and refused to help with housework. He liked rap music and a magazine describing satanic activities was found under his bed.

Oh my god, he's an ADULT and he's becoming HIS OWN PERSON!!!

:roll:

Eh, I'd go through more, but it's really not worth my time.. In any case, I think this is all bullshit, and they should have gotten far longer than just 4 years in prison..

~ver

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-24 08:07pm

Darth Wong wrote:If they can back up those convictions with arguments, more power to them. Or are you saying that it's actually worse for each person to make up his own mind than to mindlessly follow some document written by long-dead people?

Which is worse? To believe in and adhere to the innately-good moral edicts of enlightened theism, or mindlessly be swept up in the rebellious cult of atheism and blindly accept atheistic morals?

Communist, actually. Saying he was a fundie atheist is like saying he was a fundie mathematician because he believed in mathematics. His principal ideology was communism, idiot.

On the contrary, atheism is essential to the communist ideology, O Bigger Idiot.

Try Hitler, dumb-ass.

Hitler was a rabid atheist.

No, there is no such thing as "adherence to atheism"; atheism tells you what NOT to believe, not what TO believe.

Atheism is the philosophy that teaches one to be cynical and be one's own God. Quite unfortunate, too, because such an ideology is inherently destructive and imminently dangerous when large numbers of men submit to it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-24 08:10pm

EvilGrey wrote:Which is worse? To believe in and adhere to the innately-good moral edicts of enlightened theism, or mindlessly be swept up in the rebellious cult of atheism and blindly accept atheistic morals?

Atheism is hardly a "rebellious cult"; it is the natural consequence of the scientific method. And there is no such thing as "atheistic morals", any more than there are "mathematical morals" or "scientific morals".

On the contrary, atheism is essential to the communist ideology, O Bigger Idiot.

So is mathematics, moron. That doesn't mean we blame mathematics for communism.

Try Hitler, dumb-ass.
Hitler was a rabid atheist.

Wrong, dumb-ass. Read Mein Kampf, and you will see him praising Jesus just like you. He also brought back school prayer into the German school system and adorned the uniform of every Nazi soldier with "Gott mit uns" (God is with us); both rather odd moves for a "rabid atheist", wouldn't you say?

Atheism is the philosophy that teaches one to be cynical and be one's own God.

No, atheism is the logical conclusion that based on the utter lack of evidence, there is no God at all.

Quite unfortunate, too, because such an ideology is inherently destructive and imminently dangerous when large numbers of men submit to it.

Right, that's why secular first-world nations are so horrifyingly savage compared to fundamentalist Islamic nations of today or fundamentalist Christian nations of the past

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-05-24 08:18pm

Dont forget DW, obviously Hitler wasnt enlightened enough to be a real follower of jesus, and so his actions are the spawn of satan, athiests and anyone else that you care to blame....

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-24 08:21pm

Darth Wong wrote:Atheism is hardly a "rebellious cult"; it is the natural consequence of the scientific method. And there is no such thing as "atheistic morals", any more than there are "mathematical morals" or "scientific morals".

Science in no way negates religion. Science deals only with the "how," not the "why," which is religion's domain. I'm astonished by your ignorance regarding this fundamental difference between science and theism.

So is mathematics, moron. That doesn't mean we blame mathematics for communism.

Mathematics is not a philosophy of life, dumbass. One's religion, or lack thereof, has no relation to mathematics.

Wrong, dumb-ass. Read Mein Kampf, and you will see him praising Jesus just like you. He also brought back school prayer into the German school system and adorned the uniform of every Nazi soldier with "Gott mit uns" (God is with us); both rather odd moves for a "rabid atheist", wouldn't you say?

Then he made some fairly odd comments:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

No, atheism is the logical conclusion that based on the utter lack of evidence, there is no God at all.

Atheism is based on an erroneous conclusion. God exists and logic proves it.

Right, that's why secular first-world nations are so horrifyingly savage compared to fundamentalist Islamic nations of today or fundamentalist Christian nations of the past

How many unborn children have been savagely murdered in the last 50 years?

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-24 08:22pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:Dont forget DW, obviously Hitler wasnt enlightened enough to be a real follower of jesus, and so his actions are the spawn of satan, athiests and anyone else that you care to blame....

Despite your sarcasm, you are correct.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-05-24 08:35pm

EvilGrey wrote:Science in no way negates religion. Science deals only with the "how," not the "why," which is religion's domain. I'm astonished by your ignorance regarding this fundamental difference between science and theism.

That is the propaganda you've been taught to spout. Justify it.

So is mathematics, moron. That doesn't mean we blame mathematics for communism.
Mathematics is not a philosophy of life, dumbass. One's religion, or lack thereof, has no relation to mathematics.

Atheism is not a philosophy of life either, you blithering idiot. That was the whole point, which apparently sailed 50 feet over your mottled little head.

Then he made some fairly odd comments:

All of which come from either Rauschning's "Voice of Destruction" or Bormann's "Table Talk", both of which are uncorroborated fabrications. In Rauschning's case, Hitler was not even physically present at the times and places indicated. In Bormann's case, every conversation he has was uncorroborated and others who worked on his work quit in disgust at the way it was being handled.

Atheism is based on an erroneous conclusion. God exists and logic proves it.

You've been repeatedly asked to back up that bullshit claim. You never have.

Right, that's why secular first-world nations are so horrifyingly savage compared to fundamentalist Islamic nations of today or fundamentalist Christian nations of the past
How many unborn children have been savagely murdered in the last 50 years?

Half-formed fetuses, you mean? A blob of cells with no active high-level brain activity is not a child. And how does that compare to the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Holocaust, and Manifest Destiny, which took well over a hundred million lives?

All of these points have been made before. You are simply too stubborn or too stupid to deal with them, so you simply ignore them and repeat the bullshit.

Ignorant_Boy · Post by **Ignorant_Boy** » 2003-05-24 08:58pm

Why does this remind me of the movie Frailty? Wonder what the Fundie review sites said about that one.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-05-24 09:08pm

EvilGrey wrote:cult of atheism

EvilGrey, you just made me laugh so hard I had broke into a coughing. I would explain to you why those words together are so hilarious, but people of moderate intelligence would be able to figure it out themselves.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-24 09:13pm

EvilGrey wrote:Science in no way negates religion. Science deals only with the "how," not the "why," which is religion's domain. I'm astonished by your ignorance regarding this fundamental difference between science and theism.

Your "why" lacks importance. "Why" is a non-question, and pursuit of it leads to imposing subjective standards on an objective universe. And all the unnecesary emotional baggage you can imagine.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-24 10:53pm

EvilGrey wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Atheism is hardly a "rebellious cult"; it is the natural consequence of the scientific method. And there is no such thing as "atheistic morals", any more than there are "mathematical morals" or "scientific morals".
Science in no way negates religion. Science deals only with the "how," not the "why," which is religion's domain. I'm astonished by your ignorance regarding this fundamental difference between science and theism.

Spare me the psychobabble.

So is mathematics, moron. That doesn't mean we blame mathematics for communism.
Mathematics is not a philosophy of life, dumbass. One's religion, or lack thereof, has no relation to mathematics.

Atheism is not a philosophy. It's an application of the concept of burden of proof.

No, atheism is the logical conclusion that based on the utter lack of evidence, there is no God at all.
Atheism is based on an erroneous conclusion. God exists and logic proves it.

Sure. And I have a dragon in my garage.

Right, that's why secular first-world nations are so horrifyingly savage compared to fundamentalist Islamic nations of today or fundamentalist Christian nations of the past
How many unborn children have been savagely murdered in the last 50 years?

Billions and billions and billions. Maybe trillions. Cause you know, men create millions of sperm in a short period, but even if you have sex, only one is going to survive. Millions of other unborn children are brutally murdered by...who? Oh yeah, God, cause he designed the human body remember?

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-05-25 12:15am

atheism is not a belief, cult or philosophy. It is simply a lack of belief in supernatural deity. Atheism denotes nothing about a person's beliefs, lifestyle or morals, other than that they do not worship a god. When a child is born into the world, it has not been introduced to the idea of god and religion, and does not hold any religious belifes--therefor an unindoctrined child is an atheist as well. Atheism is not the denial of god, it is the absense of belief.

Enricko · Post by **Enricko** » 2003-05-25 12:59am

Why trying to convince EvilGrey that you have the right to think for yourselves when he got a marvelous book that dispenses him from using his brain with morality, humanism and other un-Godly things?

The guy's on a mission to prove to the Universe that you can survive a thermonuclear explosion with an umbrella and a bit of faith! He wants to defend his right to use God to hate sinful people and to pray for them while he'll bash them for being homosexual, communist, buddist or atheist.

Don't take away his excuse to be nice with everone else! He would jump on the first infant he would see and rips his throat if it wasn't for Jesus telling him not to!

Please, do not take your time to explain to EvilGrey that you are atheist, humanist, peace-loving and king-with-others human beings. He needs to see people like us as hatemongers creatures, living in dark alleys, waiting to kidnap babies from the craddles.

We are the Enemies... and he must fight us if he wants for his life to makes senses...

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 01:31am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Atheism is not a philosophy. It's an application of the concept of burden of proof.

Oh dear God!!! I haven't laughed so hard in such a long time!!!

Billions and billions and billions. Maybe trillions. Cause you know, men create millions of sperm in a short period, but even if you have sex, only one is going to survive. Millions of other unborn children are brutally murdered by...who? Oh yeah, God, cause he designed the human body remember?

Neurological activity is non-existent in sperm cells and are not living human beings.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-05-25 01:37am

I shoulda known that this thread was pure Flamebait *smacks self in head with (small) brick*

OUCH!

*then takes a baseball bat to IdiotGrAy's knees*

That's for wrecking every thread you post in, asscunt!

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-05-25 01:38am

EvilGrey wrote:
Billions and billions and billions. Maybe trillions. Cause you know, men create millions of sperm in a short period, but even if you have sex, only one is going to survive. Millions of other unborn children are brutally murdered by...who? Oh yeah, God, cause he designed the human body remember?
Neurological activity is non-existent in sperm cells and are not living human beings.

You've completely missed the point. Feti don't have significant neurological activity to suggest sentience either, rendering them quite simple vegetative lumps of flesh.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 01:40am

zombie84 wrote:atheism is not a belief, cult or philosophy. It is simply a lack of belief in supernatural deity. Atheism denotes nothing about a person's beliefs, lifestyle or morals, other than that they do not worship a god. When a child is born into the world, it has not been introduced to the idea of god and religion, and does not hold any religious belifes--therefor an unindoctrined child is an atheist as well. Atheism is not the denial of god, it is the absense of belief.

Atheism denotes quite a bit about the nature of the person who abides in it, the most notable ones being belief in self-made morals and adherence to arbitrary notions of right and wrong.

Atheism is the active belief that there is no God. Children are born neither theists nor atheists; they do not believe in God nor do they believe there is no God.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 01:42am

Darth Yoshi wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:
Billions and billions and billions. Maybe trillions. Cause you know, men create millions of sperm in a short period, but even if you have sex, only one is going to survive. Millions of other unborn children are brutally murdered by...who? Oh yeah, God, cause he designed the human body remember?
Neurological activity is non-existent in sperm cells and are not living human beings.
You've completely missed the point. Feti don't have significant neurological activity to suggest sentience either, rendering them quite simple vegetative lumps of flesh.

Infants lack sentience. Is that grounds to terminate them?

Dumbass

If brain death determines the end of human life, the presence of neurological activity should determine its beginning; such activity begins at the 8th-10th week period of pregnancy. Abortion up to or beyond that point should be considered murder.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-05-25 01:46am

EvilGrey wrote:Atheism denotes quite a bit about the nature of the person who abides in it, the most notable ones being belief in self-made morals and adherence to arbitrary notions of right and wrong.

Yeah, well most people's arbitrary notions of right and wrong are beter than the Bible, in which it's okay to kill children just because Ramses was being a stubborn prick.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-05-25 01:46am

EvilGrey wrote:Infants lack sentience. Is that grounds to terminate them?

Deer lack sentience. So do mosquitos.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 01:47am

Frank Hipper wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:Science in no way negates religion. Science deals only with the "how," not the "why," which is religion's domain. I'm astonished by your ignorance regarding this fundamental difference between science and theism.
Your "why" lacks importance. "Why" is a non-question, and pursuit of it leads to imposing subjective standards on an objective universe. And all the unnecesary emotional baggage you can imagine.

If "why" were unimportant, then no one would try to discover the meaning of life, no one would ponder the existence of God, and religion would not exist. But alas, human curiosity and an intense feeling that there is something more dominates us, doesn't it?

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 01:48am

Darth Yoshi wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:Atheism denotes quite a bit about the nature of the person who abides in it, the most notable ones being belief in self-made morals and adherence to arbitrary notions of right and wrong.
Yeah, well most people's arbitrary notions of right and wrong are beter than the Bible, in which it's okay to kill children just because Ramses was being a stubborn prick.

Thou shalt not murder.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 01:48am

Durandal wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:Infants lack sentience. Is that grounds to terminate them?
Deer lack sentience. So do mosquitos.

Neither are human. Your point?