Parents Kill Son in 'Exorcism'

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-05-25 01:55am

EvilGrey wrote:Infants lack sentience. Is that grounds to terminate them?

Strawman and red herring. I said nothing about infants, which are indeed sentient (albeit still underdeveloped). I also didn't say said you could kill feti just because they are non-sentient creatures; I was merely pointing out that your reasoning could be applied both ways.

Dumbass

Go fuck yourself.

If brain death determines the end of human life, the presence of neurological activity should determine its beginning; such activity begins at the 8th-10th week period of pregnancy. Abortion up to or beyond that point should be considered murder.

But they can't think at that point. If they can't think, they're not sentient and therefore not human. Significant brain activity doesn't start until later in the pregnancy. Otherwise, I agree with you.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-05-25 01:57am

EvilGrey wrote:Thou shalt not murder.

"Do as I say, not as I do." What a great example to follow. Besides, that commandment's only #6.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 02:06am

Darth Yoshi wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:Infants lack sentience. Is that grounds to terminate them?
Strawman and red herring. I said nothing about infants, which are indeed sentient (albeit still underdeveloped). I also didn't say said you could kill feti just because they are non-sentient creatures; I was merely pointing out that your reasoning could be applied both ways.
Dumbass
Go fuck yourself.
If brain death determines the end of human life, the presence of neurological activity should determine its beginning; such activity begins at the 8th-10th week period of pregnancy. Abortion up to or beyond that point should be considered murder.
But they can't think at that point. If they can't think, they're not sentient and therefore not human. Significant brain activity doesn't start until later in the pregnancy. Otherwise, I agree with you.

Ahh, you're so quick to justify a most abhorrent practice aren't you? Coma patiensts cannot think, therefore they are not human and should be terminated.

I love your twisted logic!

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 02:08am

Darth Yoshi wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:Thou shalt not murder.
"Do as I say, not as I do." What a great example to follow. Besides, that commandment's only #6.

Why do you have a problem with that? Why are you unable to grasp the irrefutable fact that God is sovereign? Is your brain underdeveloped or something, because it's just getting annoying at this point.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-25 02:18am

EvilGrey wrote:
Why do you have a problem with that? Why are you unable to grasp the irrefutable fact that God is sovereign? Is your brain underdeveloped or something, because it's just getting annoying at this point.

Are we sure this isn't a sockpuppet?

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 02:23am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:
Why do you have a problem with that? Why are you unable to grasp the irrefutable fact that God is sovereign? Is your brain underdeveloped or something, because it's just getting annoying at this point.
Are we sure this isn't a sockpuppet?

I'm amused how atheists are so bent on creating their own false conceptions of God and arguing against it than trying to refute the actual God of enlightened theism.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-05-25 02:30am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Are we sure this isn't a sockpuppet?

Could be; it's an AOL user so it's impossible to localize thanks to their idiotic proxy scheme.

However, I suspect it's just some jackass yanking our chain. He used a Lycos account to sign up even though he's obviously an AOL user, which means he didn't want us to know his address. He's also flip-flopped repeatedly. At one point, he actually said that he was so glad to talk to us because we were so much more rational than a fundie board, and now he's back to spouting his fundie nonsense.

Moreover, NOBODY is that stupid. I've debated with enough fundies in the past to know that they don't act like this. They try to at least PRETEND to answer points, rather than simply ignoring them and mocking you for not recognizing the absolute truth. A fundie is generally out to convince you; it's his mission in life to convert others.

This guy, on the other hand, is clearly out to irritate us. His comments are needling, usually offensive, and often mind-bogglingly stupid as they tend to completely ignore points made in the previous post. He hurls generalizations left, right, and centre, with no conceivable purpose except to annoy us. They certainly aren't going to convert us. And his habit of adding smileys at the end of ALL his posts seems almost designed to annoy people, particularly when they usually come at the end of a generalized insult.

He makes no serious attempt to convince us of the truth of what he's saying; he simply states it as truth, refuses to debate points or address rebuttals in any way, and tells us that we're either evil or stupid for not agreeing with him. I think there's no way this guy is sincere; he just gets his kicks from pissing us off. If anything, he may even be an atheist with a warped sense of humour, like GrandAdmiralPrawn. It seems almost as if he's out to make Christians look bad.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-05-25 02:31am

EvilGrey wrote:
zombie84 wrote:atheism is not a belief, cult or philosophy. It is simply a lack of belief in supernatural deity. Atheism denotes nothing about a person's beliefs, lifestyle or morals, other than that they do not worship a god. When a child is born into the world, it has not been introduced to the idea of god and religion, and does not hold any religious belifes--therefor an unindoctrined child is an atheist as well. Atheism is not the denial of god, it is the absense of belief.
Atheism is the active belief that there is no God. Children are born neither theists nor atheists; they do not believe in God nor do they believe there is no God.

if you dont have a religious belief, you are by definition, an atheist. Atheism is the absense of a belief in god. When a child is born, he or she holds no religious beliefs because he or she is not aware of the concept of god or religion--therefore he or she is an atheist. You are right, when a child is born, he or she neither believes in a god nor denies a god's existance--he or she does not hold any religious beliefs. That is an atheist.
Atheism does not carry with it any sort of belief system, because by definition, it cannot have any. Atheism does not say whether or not a person is good or bad (though historically, most of the greatest minds of the human race have been atheists or agnostics, but that is irrelevant anyway). Atheism is not the denial of god, it is an absense of a belief. Rather than saying "i believe a god does not exist", the atheist says "i dont believe in a god".

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-05-25 02:33am

EvilGrey wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:Thou shalt not murder.
"Do as I say, not as I do." What a great example to follow. Besides, that commandment's only #6.
Why do you have a problem with that? Why are you unable to grasp the irrefutable fact that God is sovereign? Is your brain underdeveloped or something, because it's just getting annoying at this point.

Simple. I prefer a leader who is not a hypocrite. It makes him far more trustworthy and makes it easier for me to follow him, since I don't have to worry about his sincerity. Why would you follow a leader who says don't kill and then turns around and murders children? You're bitching about abortions and saying God thinks it's wrong when he has done the same thing. Just because he's in charge he can act like a total shitstain? How does that make him any different than your example of Stalin? After all, since God's on top, he doesn't look to anybody for guidance, either.

Ahh, you're so quick to justify a most abhorrent practice aren't you? Coma patiensts cannot think, therefore they are not human and should be terminated.

I love your twisted logic!

Red herring. Coma patients are unconscious, akin to falling asleep and never waking up. Up until a certain point during the pregnancy, feti can't even be considered to have gained consciousness yet.

I'm amused how atheists are so bent on creating their own false conceptions of God and arguing against it than trying to refute the actual God of enlightened theism.

Oh yes, the Crusades were very enlightened. Kill women and children who had surrendered to you forces.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 02:39am

Darth Yoshi wrote:Simple. I prefer a leader who is not a hypocrite. It makes him far more trustworthy and makes it easier for me to follow him, since I don't have to worry about his sincerity. Why would you follow a leader who says don't kill and then turns around and murders children? You're bitching about abortions and saying God thinks it's wrong when he has done the same thing. Just because he's in charge he can act like a total shitstain? How does that make him any different than your example of Stalin? After all, since God's on top, he doesn't look to anybody for guidance, either.

I see, you wish to dismiss logic and reinvent God into what you want Him to be. I suppose objectivity must be quite displeasing to you.

Red herring. Coma patients are unconscious, akin to falling asleep and never waking up. Up until a certain point during the pregnancy, feti can't even be considered to have gained consciousness yet.

How do you know? Have you concrete proof that a 12-week fetus is not conscious?

Oh yes, the Crusades were very enlightened. Kill women and children who had surrendered to you forces.

What happened many centuries ago has no bearing on modern theism.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-05-25 02:42am

AdmiralKanos wrote:Could be; it's an AOL user so it's impossible to localize thanks to their idiotic proxy scheme.

However, I suspect it's just some jackass yanking our chain. He used a Lycos account to sign up even though he's obviously an AOL user, which means he didn't want us to know his address. He's also flip-flopped repeatedly. At one point, he actually said that he was so glad to talk to us because we were so much more rational than a fundie board, and now he's back to spouting his fundie nonsense.

Moreover, NOBODY is that stupid. I've debated with enough fundies in the past to know that they don't act like this. They try to at least PRETEND to answer points, rather than simply ignoring them and mocking you for not recognizing the absolute truth. A fundie is generally out to convince you; it's his mission in life to convert others.

This guy, on the other hand, is clearly out to irritate us. His comments are needling, usually offensive, and often mind-bogglingly stupid as they tend to completely ignore points made in the previous post. He hurls generalizations left, right, and centre, with no conceivable purpose except to annoy us. They certainly aren't going to convert us. And his habit of adding smileys at the end of ALL his posts seems almost designed to annoy people, particularly when they usually come at the end of a generalized insult.

He makes no serious attempt to convince us of the truth of what he's saying; he simply states it as truth, refuses to debate points or address rebuttals in any way, and tells us that we're either evil or stupid for not agreeing with him. I think there's no way this guy is sincere; he just gets his kicks from pissing us off. If anything, he may even be an atheist with a warped sense of humour, like GrandAdmiralPrawn. It seems almost as if he's out to make Christians look bad.

I'm sorry you and most of the other posters here are not versed in basic logic. I can't do anything about it but be amused by their illogical, asinine responses.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-25 02:47am

I'm sorry you and most of the other posters here are not versed in basic logic. I can't do anything about it but be amused by their illogical, asinine responses.

I'm surprised you read any responses at all, Stone Deaf.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-25 02:49am

AdmiralKanos wrote: Could be; it's an AOL user so it's impossible to localize thanks to their idiotic proxy scheme.

However, I suspect it's just some jackass yanking our chain. He used a Lycos account to sign up even though he's obviously an AOL user, which means he didn't want us to know his address.

Your probably. Most sock puppets don’t last this long. Still the I'm a moron Christian and my version of the word of god cannot be mistaken method of posting seems very sock puppet like, be it from a well known member or some moron banned months ago.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-05-25 07:46am

You know, EvilGrey, this board has a very long line of tolerances. You can swear, proclaim anything you want - hell, someone could announce that he was sexually attracted to trees if he wanted to, and chances are he'd still be right at home.

But in a debate, you have to at some point attempt to JUSTIFY all your claims, otherwise people will think you're just trolling in order to get us all worked up, and you'll get banned for just being a flamebaiter (one of the tenets of this board is that you can piss in the pool, but you better have a damn good reason when people get in your face about it). If you wish to avoid eventually getting labeled and tossed, start slowing down and replying to posts with justifications of your claims, rather than just dismissing them wholesale and moving on to the next denial-without-rebuttal. Evidence is everything, and if your evidence is shown to be bollocks, admit defeat gracefully and move on.

I doubt anyone else will give you advice as good, kid, so re-think your battle plan if you want to be taken seriously.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-25 10:24am

He still claims logic "proves God" but refuses to say how.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-25 01:21pm

Since he's just stirring shit up, can we just ban the fucker?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-05-25 02:01pm

You seemed to miss this the first time I posted it, so answer me this time.

EvilGrey, tell me, how can there be a "cult of atheism" (your words) if atheism is not a religion?

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2003-05-25 02:11pm

zombie84 wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:
zombie84 wrote:atheism is not a belief, cult or philosophy. It is simply a lack of belief in supernatural deity. Atheism denotes nothing about a person's beliefs, lifestyle or morals, other than that they do not worship a god. When a child is born into the world, it has not been introduced to the idea of god and religion, and does not hold any religious belifes--therefor an unindoctrined child is an atheist as well. Atheism is not the denial of god, it is the absense of belief.
Atheism is the active belief that there is no God. Children are born neither theists nor atheists; they do not believe in God nor do they believe there is no God.
if you dont have a religious belief, you are by definition, an atheist. Atheism is the absense of a belief in god. When a child is born, he or she holds no religious beliefs because he or she is not aware of the concept of god or religion--therefore he or she is an atheist. You are right, when a child is born, he or she neither believes in a god nor denies a god's existance--he or she does not hold any religious beliefs. That is an atheist.
Atheism does not carry with it any sort of belief system, because by definition, it cannot have any. Atheism does not say whether or not a person is good or bad (though historically, most of the greatest minds of the human race have been atheists or agnostics, but that is irrelevant anyway). Atheism is not the denial of god, it is an absense of a belief. Rather than saying "i believe a god does not exist", the atheist says "i dont believe in a god".

Haha. Reminds me of that idiot fundie who actually tried to convince me that babies are born with faith. Merely because they call out to their mothers for food. I'd like to take this piece of shit and break his arms, and then have him summon his god to help him out.

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2003-05-25 05:32pm

AdmiralKanos wrote:... It seems almost as if he's out to make Christians look bad.

--Holy sponges!!! That would be absolutetly brilliant!!!

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-05-25 06:45pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Since he's just stirring shit up, can we just ban the fucker?

He has been pretty aggrivating, and hasn't conceded anything, but I say unless he reduces himself to pointless flaming and threats, he shouldn't be banned. I say we give him an ultimatium of either agree to an honest debate, or be banned.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-05-25 07:17pm

<sigh>

We've done this all before. Anyone think I should just lock the thread?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-05-25 10:34pm

Durandal wrote:<sigh>

We've done this all before. Anyone think I should just lock the thread?

Could you please at least keep it open long enough for EvilGrey to answer my question? I really would like an answer to it.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-05-25 11:06pm

I think this evilgrey is some pathetic 14 year old who spends all his hours awake in front of the computer trying to stir up shit the best he can. He probably has no social life, and has and will not ever have sex. Not even with a Catholic priest. In a way, this idiot kind of reminds me of that Anti-Porn guy we found a few months back and made fun of endlessly. Sadly, I think the best part of evilgrey ran down the crack of his momma's ass and ended up as a brown stain on the mattress.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-05-25 11:12pm

Back to the long since forgotten subject of the thread...

Those bastards need to be marinated in cow blood, be put in pork suits and be thrown into a large tank filled with chummy water and about 8 great whites...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-05-25 11:13pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Durandal wrote:<sigh>

We've done this all before. Anyone think I should just lock the thread?
Could you please at least keep it open long enough for EvilGrey to answer my question? I really would like an answer to it.

He's not going to answer, and if he does, it'll be some bullshit perversion of the truth anyway.