The Death Penalty, Yes/No?

[Pablo Sanchez]

That's fourteen years of your life you will NEVER get back.

Jesus. Sheppard, anyone can understand the difference between 14 years in prison and death. In pure numerical terms, that's 14 years versus perhaps 50.

[Smiling Bandit]

Lord, I wish we could all dodge bullets and take punishment like Vash.

But we can't. So we have to have a criminal justice system.

I... am opposed. If only because I know there are some powers I cannot trust myslf with. believe it, but I should never be entrusted with power over another man's life. There are far too many of these people, whose crimes stink to heaven, that I could give fair hearing to.

[AltoidMaster]

You know an interesting thing about the restriction of the law library.

I was in court one day observing a man who chose to represent himself. He was also mentally retarded (not as an insult but this was his mental condition from birth). The entire situation had been an accident and the police had accidentally placed him on the "arrest on sight" list, even though he had commited no crime. He was therefore hauled into jail and shut up for 2 months not knowing what he had done, for running overtime on the parking meter.

No one in the court room was rude, the issue was an accident, but observing the procedures was truly heartbreaking. This man, who could barely read the papers he was handing to the judge was defending himself, and refusing pro bono legal support.

Now granted the percentage of such a coincidence of events occuring is very rare, and there are people who abuse the system, but in this case, what would you tell this guy?

[David]

The judge should have intervined in that situation.

[Antediluvian]

The death penalty should only be used in extreme cases, in my view.

[Skelron]

I am completely for harsher punishments;
- Life should be Life (Lets make sure that the things you get Life for are really up to this punishment.)
- Quit being nice to prisoners (as in Europe). Remove the tellies and bring back the ball, chain, hammer and the rocks.
- Serial Sexual Offenders should have serious bits (and you knwo which one I mean) cut off.

Slightly off topic but when people appeal to the need for harsher punishments they do so out of a desire for revenge. Anyone that argues against such conditions is then accussed of being soft of Crime or the similar. Actually have the fact that they believe in Human rights used as an insult against them, and yet harsher punishment achieves nothing. At least nothing worth while, on the other hand the Public's demand for harsh punishment, Ball and Chain type conditions has led to, in the UK the closing of two out of only three Prison's that had a lower rate of people that reoffended upon release than the Lock them up all day apart for an hour for excercise type prisons. Let me repeat that, this type of prison had less people reoffending upon release than the harsher sort of prison, which have long been acknowledged as actually mostly making BETTER criminal's upon release.

So the question is which is better, giving someone their Human right's back, and in the process having a lower rate of re-offence's or to strip them of their Civil right's throw them in a de-humanising situation, all to be Tough and satisfy your need for revenge and have a greater chance of upon release the person going back and commiting more crimes? But hay if you choose the latter option at least your not a Liberal... Just really really Stupid!

[Durandal]

I'd have to agree. The death penalty is not an effective deterrent; it is merely a way to satisfy society's bloodlust.

Prisons, on the other hand, are the greatest failing of the justice system. Absolutely no rehabilitation takes place in prisons. At all. It is a cruel environment where inmates are dehumanized and stripped of all their rights. What happens when they get out? They go back to committing crime, only this time, they've talked with other criminals about how to do it better and with less risk of getting caught. As a result, prisons are trapped in a cycle of overcrowding and repeated inmates.

The system fails because no one wants to improve it. The conservative Christian/Jew lawmakers are bent upon punishing the wicked and trying their damnedest to get as close as legally possible to torture and slave labor as punishment. Maybe if these prisoners were educated as to ideas of human rights or why what they did was wrong, they could walk out as productive members of society. Instead, people like Shep only want to keep the cycle of violence and hatred going. It's self-gratifying. Guy commits crime. Guy goes to prison, is dehumanized and turned into a more efficient, more amoral criminal. Guy gets out. Guy commits another crime. Rinse, repeat.

If you seriously think that having a TV in a cell is indicative of good living conditions in a prison, you should really wake the fuck up. Go and visit a prison one day where they put the really hard core guys and tell me they lead comfortable lives. Prison is not a good place to be, especially in the United States.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Geddy Lee of Rush said it best,"Can any part of life be larger than life, Even love must be limitted by time, For those that push us down that they might climb, Is any killer worth more than his crime?" The death peanalty is the only way to guarenty no repeat offence. Acording to jewish law, (I am an atheist, but wisdom, like foolishness, is where you find it) no crime may be forgiven without the forgiveness of the victim, thus murder is the only crime that is unforgivable.. Asking for a perfect system is wishful thinking, as long as humans are using it. Even if you take wetware out of the system, and rely on hardware and software, you will still have people "jiggering" the equipment, with the specific goal of a fradulent, but favourable (To the jiggerer, NOT the jiggerees) outcome of the process. Can you say frame? The goal of perfection is unrealistic. (See my post on communism) The minimum possible errors, and a constant effort to improve the accuracy, with some outside review is the best we can hope for. By the way, I have been to prison, (8 months) and TV is used as a way of keeping the violence down. Once the TV comes on, the couch potato syndrome dulls the agression of all but the vost violent, or the psycoes. In terms of medical bills for the staff alone, it is worth the cost. Funny, I was the only guilty one in the whole place. By the way, having weight lifting equipment in prison is about the stupidest thing I saw in the system.

[David]

The natives of Panama have a interesting solution to the problem of rape.

They cut a tree in two then stick the offenders penis in it. They put him in a grass house, then give him a dull knife.

Then they set the hut on fire.


So they can remove their offending member, or whittle very fast.


I like their justice system.

[John]

I'd have to agree. The death penalty is not an effective deterrent; it is merely a way to satisfy society's bloodlust.

Oh really? It has 0% re-offence rate.

If you seriously think that having a TV in a cell is indicative of good living conditions in a prison, you should really wake the fuck up. Go and visit a prison one day where they put the really hard core guys and tell me they lead comfortable lives. Prison is not a good place to be, especially in the United States.

Hmmm. My brother was in prison for a year, and he seemed to think a TV in each cell would have been a great idea. Wake up Durandal, prision is 'not' about 'rehabilitation', prison is about 'punishment', that is, making the offender 'afraid' to re-offend, for fear of the consequences.

[MKSheppard]

If you seriously think that having a TV in a cell is indicative of good living conditions in a prison, you should really wake the fuck up. Go and visit a prison one day where they put the really hard core guys and tell me they lead comfortable lives. Prison is not a good place to be, especially in the United States.

STFU!

There was this homeless guy who kept ending up in my cellblock all the
time, cuz he had nowhere to go. He'd disappear for a few months,
and then he'd come back to the jail after committing some offense.

He was good for comic relief though....when he used windex as a deoderant
and ended up in the medical ward after he sprayed ammonia on his
dick....BWHAHAHAHHAH!

[Pablo Sanchez]

He was good for comic relief though....when he used windex as a deoderant and ended up in the medical ward after he sprayed ammonia on his dick....BWHAHAHAHHAH!

Good God...

So prison is better than being homeless? Not quite a glowing endorsement...

[Crossover_Maniac]

He was good for comic relief though....when he used windex as a deoderant and ended up in the medical ward after he sprayed ammonia on his dick....BWHAHAHAHHAH!

Good God...

So prison is better than being homeless? Not quite a glowing endorsement...

When prisons are better than being homeless, we should reconsider how we run our prisons. Bring back the chain gangs.

[Howedar]

The natives of Panama have a interesting solution to the problem of rape.

They cut a tree in two then stick the offenders penis in it. They put him in a grass house, then give him a dull knife.

Then they set the hut on fire.


So they can remove their offending member, or whittle very fast.


I like their justice system.

Thats horrible and brutal.

How perfectly appropriate.

[Enforcer Talen]

gotta love executions. rape, murder or attempted murder not in self defense, treason, hang em all.

oh, maybe the enron people too. heh.

[Sienthal]

The death penalty could well be used as an extreme form of justice. However, the last time I checked, it costs more to send a 30 year old man to death than to sustain him for the rest of his life in prison.

Aside from having higher costs, there is the problem with those deemed innocent. Additionally, (Playing the Devil's Advocate) It's simply not worth it to give a singular family extreme justice when there is a large lobby for those against the death penalty. Life imprisonment would make a better solution.

Finally, I think that most people would take death over 50+ years of life in a high-security prison with more of his kind, no rehabilitation conditions (Life without parole, anyway), and Gentle Ben in the next cell?

[Stormbringer]

However, the last time I checked, it costs more to send a 30 year old man to death than to sustain him for the rest of his life in prison.

Damn the cost. If cost was the only option just club every suspect senseless, that way you're sure to get the right in there somewhere. The idea of a justice system is to get a just resolutionl, not cost effective punishment.

I support the death penalty. Some criminal by their actions havee proven they are unfit for continued association with the human race they've forfieted their right to live. Some crimes, such as rape and murder, demand the criminal pay the ultimate price. I'm not saying every case of such crimes warrants death but in my opinion a lot of them do. Screw detterance and all that, the death penalty's about removing a vile stain on the face of humanity. And a 9mm to the back is about all they deserve in my opinion.

In capital cases, the burden of a proof needs to be the highest most ironclad case. If there is any reasonable doubt, simply send them to break rocks for the rest of their life with minimum food and water.

[Sothis]

Definately no to the death penality. If it's supposed to deter serious crime, then it fails miserably in that regard.

These days it costs more to have someone on deathrow than to give them a jail sentence, so it's not cost effective either.

Then, finally, what if the jury gets it wrong, and sends an innocent person to their death? If they're in jail, they can be released. If they're dead, well, they're dead.

[Alyrium Denryle]

If the guy can't prove his innocence after an average of 11 years of appeals,
which are usually funded by anti-death penalty advocates,
execute him.

At least in the US the prosecution has the burden of proof. There have been several cases of people on death row being found innocent the day before execution. It makes you wonder, how many innocent people have been executed over the years? How many people have died for crimes they did not commit. Sure some people deserve to die like jeffrey dahmer, and when they find bodies all over your house, hanging from the cieling on meat hooks, chopped up and frozen in your ice box, with heads pickled in jars yes go ahead and execute the person(particularly when he says "The bodies are my food") but unless the evidence is absolutly 100% conclusive we dont have the right to execute another human being.

[EmperorSolo51]

I think we should reserve the death penalty only for treason and mass murderors. Everybody else like serial killers, Child Molestors, and the like, should be given 100 year mandatory sentance to Hard Labor and be sent to Gulags and be forced to work for the state and society they tried to harm. that simple.