Plasma Torpedo yield?

TrekWarsie · Post by **TrekWarsie** » 2003-05-25 09:49am

Does anyone here know the yield of the Romulan BoP's Plasma Torpedo? And how strong do you think it is compared to Trek weaponry as of the end of Nemesis?

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2003-05-25 10:16am

It took several plasma torpedoes to destroy one single unsheilded orbital weapon platform in DS9 "Tears of the Prophets". But then again they can take on several photon torpedo hits and still be undamage so I take it those platforms most have been very durable.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-05-25 10:37am

Dark Primus wrote:It took several plasma torpedoes to destroy one single unsheilded orbital weapon platform in DS9 "Tears of the Prophets". But then again they can take on several photon torpedo hits and still be undamage so I take it those platforms most have been very durable.

The OWPs also fired Plasma torpedoes that had higher observed firepower. I would have to say that the OWPs were an example of everything done right and being very powerful for their size. In that case the Romulan plasma torpedoes not doing much damage is not a bad thing. I suspect the plasma torpedo is an equivilant weapon to the Federation Quantum torpedo.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2003-05-25 04:28pm

I belive he is refering to the TOS "Balance of terror" BOP plasma torpedo that vaped a starbase in a asteroid with the shields up etc..

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-05-25 04:31pm

Laird wrote:I belive he is refering to the TOS "Balance of terror" BOP plasma torpedo that vaped a starbase in a asteroid with the shields up etc..

Where in the episode does it say anything about vaporization, though?

Spock held some remains of the base in his hands. The whole thing was definitely not vaporized. For all we know, the plasma weapon might've shattered some of the outer layers of the asteroid off, destroyed its shields and in destroying the outpost, breached its reactor, which could add significantly to the explosion(s).

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-05-25 04:38pm

It's been a while since I've seen that episode, but didn't the base take two hits? When the commander of the base hails the E-nil he is already injured and there are fires seen on screen, they had already been hit once. So I think that the first torpedo took out the shield and the second one destroyed the base.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-25 04:44pm

Yeah, and they said onscreen that it was pulverized, not vapourized. This means that a low-gigaton blast is a one-hit one-kill weapon against a Federation starship, as we've always said.

Mutant Headcrab · Post by **Mutant Headcrab** » 2003-05-25 05:32pm

I always felt that the weapon seen in the TOS episode was more akin to a weapon from the "Starfleet Battles" board game. In it, one of the Romulan weapons was a weapon called the "Mauler." It was close ranged, took lots of power, and incurred incredible damage.

I haven't seen this episode in a while. Did they actually call it a plasma torpedo or was it left unnamed?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-25 09:01pm

Laird wrote:I belive he is refering to the TOS "Balance of terror" BOP plasma torpedo that vaped a starbase in a asteroid with the shields up etc..

I love how Spock held vaporized metal

.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-25 11:22pm

Mutant Headcrab wrote:I always felt that the weapon seen in the TOS episode was more akin to a weapon from the "Starfleet Battles" board game. In it, one of the Romulan weapons was a weapon called the "Mauler." It was close ranged, took lots of power, and incurred incredible damage.

We wish. SFB is the only intelligent example of any type of Trek combat.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2003-05-26 12:37am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Laird wrote:I belive he is refering to the TOS "Balance of terror" BOP plasma torpedo that vaped a starbase in a asteroid with the shields up etc..

I love how Spock held vaporized metal .

Like I care about your stupid rolling eyes smiley,It's been like 3 years since I actually watched the TOS re-runs on the space channel.

Bugger off you worthless turd.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-05-26 12:55am

Laird wrote:Snip crap.

Who let you out your cave troll?

Mutant Headcrab · Post by **Mutant Headcrab** » 2003-05-26 01:16am

EmperorMing wrote:
Mutant Headcrab wrote:I always felt that the weapon seen in the TOS episode was more akin to a weapon from the "Starfleet Battles" board game. In it, one of the Romulan weapons was a weapon called the "Mauler." It was close ranged, took lots of power, and incurred incredible damage.
We wish. SFB is the only intelligent example of any type of Trek combat.

Tell me about it. Fighters, carriers, legitmate ground forces. SFB had it all. The series however

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2003-05-26 02:36am

Coaan wrote:
Laird wrote:Snip crap.
Who let you out your cave troll?

And you are? Oh...wait I know who you are...nobody.

Sheridan...I made a mistake,If you can't understand that...you have my pity.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-05-26 02:38am

Laird wrote:
Coaan wrote:
Laird wrote:Snip crap.
Who let you out your cave troll?
And you are? Oh...wait I know who you are...nobody.

Sheridan...I made a mistake,If you can't understand that...you have my pity.

Coaan is right. Get back in your cage.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-26 03:07am

Mutant Headcrab wrote:
EmperorMing wrote:
Mutant Headcrab wrote:I always felt that the weapon seen in the TOS episode was more akin to a weapon from the "Starfleet Battles" board game. In it, one of the Romulan weapons was a weapon called the "Mauler." It was close ranged, took lots of power, and incurred incredible damage.
We wish. SFB is the only intelligent example of any type of Trek combat.
Tell me about it. Fighters, carriers, legitmate ground forces. SFB had it all. The series however

And no techno-wanking plot device to save the day. Straight up range 8 dogfight hose-n-close. Lightly sprinkled with a scatter-pack or two...

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-26 03:09am

To get back on topic, BoP plasme from the TOS...

Considering how little consistency there is with the shows and no printed materiel to fall back on...

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-26 03:13am

Wasn't the base made up of neutronium for the hull?

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2003-05-26 03:22am

I belive the calcs for the size of the asteroid was 3 km(1.5km on each side of the starbase.)

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2003-05-26 03:34am

I also seem to remember that the fragment Spock held was supposed to be made of a very strong material and Spock crumbled it, indicating that the torpedo affected it on a molecular level. And yes, it was specifically referred top as a plasma torpedo.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-26 03:35am

EmperorMing wrote:Wasn't the base made up of neutronium for the hull?

No, it was some consonant enhanced material name as I recall.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-05-26 06:36am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
EmperorMing wrote:Wasn't the base made up of neutronium for the hull?
No, it was some consonant enhanced material name as I recall.

If one of us can view the episode, then it should be cleared up.

*hunts for video...*

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-26 01:54pm

It was an imaginary material name (I don't remember it off-hand, but it was definitely a made-up name). It looked metallic and was very brittle in Spock's hands.

He also described it as "the hardest material known to our science", which only goes to show that either he or Starfleet's engineers (or both) are idiots, since only a complete moron would use an ultra-hard material for structural purposes. Ultra-hard materials are ALWAYS brittle.

The fact that thin flakes of the material broke apart in Spock's hands is hardly surprising, and does not necessarily indicate any of this "molecular level" breakdown described earlier (meaningless term in this context anyway, since metallic elements do not form molecules; they form grains of metallically bonded crystalline atomic lattices). The deformation induced by the base being blown apart probably left the material in a worthless state; one can easily demonstrate the same phenomenon with a hammer and a thin piece of metal, without appealing to some kind of exotic microscopic breakdown mechanism.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2003-05-26 02:47pm

I was under the impression that the weapon did a little more than simple fragmentation:

Outpost 2 coming into sensor range, Captain.
Outpost 2 was the first to go silent?
Yes, Captain.
Then outpost 3 an hour later.
Sweeping the area of outpost 2.
Sensor reading indefinite.
Double-checking outpost 3.
I read dust and debris.
Both Earth outposts gone,
and the asteroids they were constructed on...
pulverized.

Emphasis mine. Not vaporised, no, but seemingly in small pieces--almost certainly along with considerable vaporization.

Outpost 4 now 5 minutes away.
And showing on my sensors.
At least it's still there.
Sir, regaining contact with outpost 4.
Switching to speakers.
Outpost 4...
Do you read me, Enterprise?
This is Commander Hansen.
Kirk here. We're minutes away, Hansen.
What's your status?
Outposts 2, 3, and 8 are gone.
Unknown weapon. Completely destroyed,
even though we were alerted.
Had our deflector shield on maximum.
Hit by enormous power.
First attack blew our deflector shield.
If they hit us again
with our deflector shield gone...

Emphasis mine. Clearly, outpost 4 took the first hit, and a second hit would have destroyed the asteroid and remander of the base. Note* This was a military installation, and probably had enormously powerful shielding comapred to the Ent-nil. Shielding that was flattened with power to spare.

Enterprise, can you see it?
My command post here.
We're a mile deep on an asteroid.
Almost solid iron.
And even through our deflectors, it did this. Can you see?
Affirmative.

Emphasis mine. Here's a picture of the base after what managed to bleed through the shields and a mile (1,609m) of iron from a single shot:

So it takes two shots to "pulverise" such an installation. A good minimum size for the asteroids in question is 3.2 Km in diameter, solid iron will actually be a very close estimate in this case, and one hit should take care of the asteroid once shields are down. The weapon is plasma-based, and attacks from the outside--it is hardly a buried explosive--thermally.

Using Wong's calculator, the fragmentation energy is 32.8 MT, but I have hopefully established this is not accurate. Cratering energy is 154.8 MT for iron, and is closer to the value required, but this will result in a large, well, crater in the asteroid and many large broken-off pieces. This should be an absolute minimum value. Obviously vaporization is much too high (245 GT) but there was some going on. I personally think 10-15% of the asteroid was vaporised, as that *should* be enough to pulverise the rest of it. That would give about 25-37 GT. I feel this is a good reference number, feel free anyone to show off your superior knowledge and make better numbers, or even just to disagree. This was done on the fly, so to speak.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-27 07:24am

seanrobertson wrote:Where in the episode does it say anything about vaporization, though?

Spock held some remains of the base in his hands. The whole thing was definitely not vaporized. For all we know, the plasma weapon might've shattered some of the outer layers of the asteroid off, destroyed its shields and in destroying the outpost, breached its reactor, which could add significantly to the explosion(s).

Wasn't it so that one torpedoe downed their shield, then another one destroyed it(penetrating 1600m of iron too)?