Why do people think the Andromeda is so powerful?

[Connor MacLeod]

Anyhow, the main topic.

Andromeda is rather powerful. They could certianly be a match for anything in B5 and Trek, and probably would win on most of the same basic pre-ICS advantages the Empier had (size, industrial potential, resources available, etc.)

And lets face it, in some ways Andromeda's universe has things over the SW universe: their cloaks are a "bit" better - the whole phase-density shifting thing. Nova-makers are standard armaments and not a special-production superweapon. PSPs. They have far superior accelerations. They have more potential territory overall, and a far faster (albeit less precise and less predictable) form of FTL. Their missile technology is arguably better. And they have a few other neat "tricks."

Generally, of all teh non-novel universes I know of, they come the closest (aside from some ST super-advanced "race of the week" like the Voth or Krenim, tiem travelers, or omnipotents like the Q - or the supposed level of capability B5 First Ones are supposed to "really" have....) to having the potential to match SW, ICS or no. I still think they're at a disadvantage and can't win in a conventional manner, but because of some of the interetsting weapons and tricks they have (eg nova bombs, maxim charges, slipstream cores) some believe they can be a force to be reckoned with (and in a sense, this is true.) Whereas others seem to believe in some sort of achilles heel on the Empire's part (inability to hit Andromedaverse ships, slow weapons/acceleration, weak particle shielding, or some combination thereof) which will give the Andromedaverse some unbeatable advantage.

Its not so much that i think they ARE as powerful as teh Empire, as they are the closest and have the most potential to MATCH them, even if they still lose (they would be the hardest, and most costly, to defeat.)

[NecronLord]

ADVANTAGES:


1. Acceleration. Only place where .2 C is concidered slow.
2. Firepower. 20 gigaton missle salvoes as per ep with giant planet eater.

DISADVANTAGES

1. No FTL sensors. A ISD can sit a few light hours away and won't be noticed for a while.
2. Pure ammount of missles need. A missle salvo is like 1000.

Hehe

Andromeda in orbit of something
ISD sits 20Light minutes away, scans the andromeda,
jumps in to ten
full volley on predicted location
Toasty...

anyone have a range for HTL's?

[Mr Bean]

Two Light seconds I belive on HTL but its unknow ATM as most space combat we see is done by Zahn or Veries the idiot Villians the Vong

And Zahn had THRAWN who was there showing people while a .50 Cal weapon is a great distance weapon, yes it is, if one where to hype two feet away and aim that .50 Cal it would hurt alot more

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Also, we see how SW ships handle collision with physical objects (The Hoth asteroid field in RotJ). Now, instead of slow moving asteroids, try projectiles at 0.85c to 0.95 c. Add to the fact that their ordiance is guided and can make course corrections to hit their targets as opposed turbolasers that go pretty much in a straight path.

ESB asteroid field disproved.

Can it get its luck shot before the Andromeda lobs hundreds of missiles into its hull? The heavy turbolasers are not designed to shoot targets that can outmanuever the Falcon or accelerate at rates 50 times faster than any SW ships could ever pull.

Wow. It'll only take ten thousand missles to equal [/i]one[/i] 20 year old turbolaser blast.

[Mr Bean]

From a transport no less...

[Crossover_Maniac]

Also, we see how SW ships handle collision with physical objects (The Hoth asteroid field in RotJ). Now, instead of slow moving asteroids, try projectiles at 0.85c to 0.95 c. Add to the fact that their ordiance is guided and can make course corrections to hit their targets as opposed turbolasers that go pretty much in a straight path.

ESB asteroid field disproved.

Can it get its luck shot before the Andromeda lobs hundreds of missiles into its hull? The heavy turbolasers are not designed to shoot targets that can outmanuever the Falcon or accelerate at rates 50 times faster than any SW ships could ever pull.

Wow. It'll only take ten thousand missles to equal [/i]one[/i] 20 year old turbolaser blast.

Read my post on the Commonwealth vs. Empire thread. The forces and sheer stresses generated by the OM-5's offensive missiles will thru the SW shields and hull like a bullet through a sheet of paper. In fact, most of the KE will not even be imparted on the ship. The damage will come from hitting the vital systems on the ship.

[Antediluvian]

(Well they were capital ships. Most likely something in the cutter to frigate range.)

Hmm. Another reason I thought it was a fighter was not just size, but also that I looked up the ship on All Systems and it said it only had one crew. That also appeared to be the only ship that hit it. Regardless, though that doesn't speak highly of it's ability to take damage. That was the ship I was talking about, the one that blasted her, not the whole fleet.





(The weapons she was hit by were AP cannons. If you followed the thread for weapons strengths for other Sci-fo series you'd note that the exact strength of these weapons is unknown. The only know is that a ship on continuous AP cannon fire will drain her supply in a few moments. In "Belly of the Beast" it was stated that the Maru's AP tanks contain enough AP to destroy a small planet. Of course this could range from a small planetoid to something the size of Earth since Earth sized planets have been called small on the series. The other fact is that the AP cannons are stated to be several times more powerful than you standard kinetic missile barrage. So a small fleet of capital ships mounting these weapons hit her.)

How do you know they were AP cannons? Was this stated? And I only saw one small Than ship blast her a few times.

[Antediluvian]

(Can it get its luck shot before the Andromeda lobs hundreds of missiles into its hull? The heavy turbolasers are not designed to shoot targets that can outmanuever the Falcon or accelerate at rates 50 times faster than any SW ships could ever pull.)

The Andromeda is a large target, and they shouldn't have have that much trouble hitting it, and where do you get this idea that it can outmaneuver the Falcon, or outaccelerate any SW ship?

As for lobbing hundreds of missiles, ECM will come into play and screw those up.

[Antediluvian]

Also, even the fighters carry offensive missiles as well. A couple of Centaur and Shrike fighters can go ahead of the main ship and take out the ISD's turbolasers and ion cannons.

And the ISD will be doing what during all this? Playing cards?

They can surely shoot down a couple of fighters and withstand their missile barrage.

Plus, ECM again comes into play.

[Antediluvian]

(Wow. It'll only take ten thousand missles to equal [/i]one[/i] 20 year old turbolaser blast.)

Gee, I guess the Andromeda is screwed.

[Crossover_Maniac]

(Can it get its luck shot before the Andromeda lobs hundreds of missiles into its hull? The heavy turbolasers are not designed to shoot targets that can outmanuever the Falcon or accelerate at rates 50 times faster than any SW ships could ever pull.)

The Andromeda is a large target, and they shouldn't have have that much trouble hitting it, and where do you get this idea that it can outmaneuver the Falcon, or outaccelerate any SW ship?

As for lobbing hundreds of missiles, ECM will come into play and screw those up.

GHC can pull up to 170,000 g's. Fighters can pull up to 700,000 g's. I think the SW ships are clocked at 3000 g's tops. And if you ever watched the series, the Andromeda moves like the Defiant even though it's almost as long as an ISD. As for ECM, the Andromeda can counter ECM by closing the distance between the two ships.

[Crossover_Maniac]

(Wow. It'll only take ten thousand missles to equal [/i]one[/i] 20 year old turbolaser blast.)

Gee, I guess the Andromeda is screwed.

The ISD shields couldn't stop the relatively show moving asteroids in the Hoth system from damaging their ships. What do you think will happen when their shields goes upagainst projectiles going 0.9c? They're going straight through the shields, hull, and exiting out the other side.

[Antediluvian]

(GHC can pull up to 170,000 g's. Fighters can pull up to 700,000 g's. I think the SW ships are clocked at 3000 g's tops. And if you ever watched the series, the Andromeda moves like the Defiant even though it's almost as long as an ISD. As for ECM, the Andromeda can counter ECM by closing the distance between the two ships.)

I've never seen the Andromeda move like the Defiant, and even it can, it's still a bigger target.

And closing the distance won't help against ECM, if it gets too close, it will be affected.

Who calculated the acceleration for SW ships?

[Antediluvian]

(The ISD shields couldn't stop the relatively show moving asteroids in the Hoth system from damaging their ships. What do you think will happen when their shields goes upagainst projectiles going 0.9c? They're going straight through the shields, hull, and exiting out the other side.)

They'll withstand them pretty well, after all those asteroids are much bigger than those tiny kinetic missiles.

And they were in that field for a good while before any of them they were in trouble.

And you obviously discount the ISD's heavy armor.

If it takes ten thousands missiles to equal 200 gigatons, the Andromeda is still screwed.

[Crossover_Maniac]

(The ISD shields couldn't stop the relatively show moving asteroids in the Hoth system from damaging their ships. What do you think will happen when their shields goes upagainst projectiles going 0.9c? They're going straight through the shields, hull, and exiting out the other side.)

They'll withstand them pretty well, after all those asteroids are much bigger than those tiny kinetic missiles.

Pillows are bigger and more massive than a .22 caliber bullet. So, which would you rather be hit by. Repeat after me: slow moving boulders are not as dangerous as missiles traveling near the speed of light.

And they were in that field for a good while before any of them they were in trouble.

And you obviously discount the ISD's heavy armor.

The armor has less resillance than the shields.

If it takes ten thousands missiles to equal 200 gigatons, the Andromeda is still screwed.

The KE of a .22 caliber bullet (mass=29 grams, muzzle velocity=213 m/s) is 660 joules. That's what you get when you go sun bathing for 2 seconds. With your line of reasoning, it would take 10,000 .22 caliber bullets to do the damage that getting a tan on the beach for 5 hours. The reason why the bullet can kill you and the sunbathing doesn't goes to show you there's more to weapon yields than how much energy it produces. There's the amount of time it's delivered (power)-the shorter the duration, the more damage done and there's concentration. Reducing the cross-sectional area allows for more force being concentrated on the target and increasing the pentatration. The OM-5 offensive missiles produces forces hundreds of times greater and stresses billions of times greater than the Hoth asteroids. If the ISD's took any damage from being hit at all, it's not going to stop the OM-5's (which aren't even the largest KE weapon the GHC are armed with. That's honor goes to the smart missiles which move at about the same speed as the OM-5's). Where's talking about orders of magnitude difference here.

[Antediluvian]

(Pillows are bigger and more massive than a .22 caliber bullet. So, which would you rather be hit by. Repeat after me: slow moving boulders are not as dangerous as missiles traveling near the speed of light.)

Slow moving massive boulders are more dangerous those tiny kinetic missiles, simply because of mass.




(The armor has less resillance than the shields.)

Got any proof?





(The KE of a .22 caliber bullet (mass=29 grams, muzzle velocity=213 m/s) is 660 joules. That's what you get when you go sun bathing for 2 seconds. With your line of reasoning, it would take 10,000 .22 caliber bullets to do the damage that getting a tan on the beach for 5 hours. The reason why the bullet can kill you and the sunbathing doesn't goes to show you there's more to weapon yields than how much energy it produces. There's the amount of time it's delivered (power)-the shorter the duration, the more damage done and there's concentration. Reducing the cross-sectional area allows for more force being concentrated on the target and increasing the pentatration. The OM-5 offensive missiles produces forces hundreds of times greater and stresses billions of times greater than the Hoth asteroids. If the ISD's took any damage from being hit at all, it's not going to stop the OM-5's (which aren't even the largest KE weapon the GHC are armed with. That's honor goes to the smart missiles which move at about the same speed as the OM-5's). Where's talking about orders of magnitude difference here.[/quote])

Got any proof that their offensive missiles produce greater stressess and forces than a massive asteriod belt full of nickel-iron asteroids that they were in for a long period of time?

[HemlockGrey]

Couldn't the ISD set it's guns to flak?

Wouldn't that increase the odds of hitting Andromeda, or am I a moron?

[Crossover_Maniac]

Couldn't the ISD set it's guns to flak?

Wouldn't that increase the odds of hitting Andromeda, or am I a moron?

No, you're no moron. But flak fire isn't as potent as an actual hit

E(abs)=E(bolt)*A/(4*3.1416*X^2))

E(abs)=Energy absorbed
E(bolt)=Total energy of TL bolt
A=Cross-sectional area of the ship
X=Distance between target and where the TL bolt flak bursts

Even a HTL bolt at 200 gigatons, if flak burst at 10 miles (16 kilometers), will only provide a yield of 24 megatons on a target with a cross-sectional area of 390,000 m^2 (1300 meters by 300 meters) and this would across the entire cross-section of the ship, and not concentrated on a small portion of the ship which would be more effective.

[Master of Ossus]

The point is, though, that the ISD has many of those weapons and they would be exploding closer than 10 miles out. What is Andromeda's acceleration rated as, anyway?

[Crossover_Maniac]

170,000 g's.

[omegaLancer]

That would be good figure for the 2 - quad TL of ISD but then there are the 15 SHTL.

24MT is equal to a single hit by KE missile, not bad...

Yes so what about the SHTL of the ISD that would be 2000Gt that means the damage would be 240 megatons ( getting hit by 10 KE missiles. that hurts).. Time 64 for total SHTL on1 ISD2 or time 15 for ISD1.

So Flak burst could be a hazard.. Combine that with the 100's LTL which
would score a occassional direct hit...

the battle is not a cake walk for either side..


If the blast is closer?...

[Crossover_Maniac]

That would be good figure for the 2 - quad TL of ISD but then there are the 15 SHTL.

24MT is equal to a single hit by KE missile, not bad...

Actually, most of the KE of the missiles aren't absorbed by the ship. Basicly, the missile (or what's left of it) goes out one side and into another.

Yes so what about the SHTL of the ISD that would be 2000Gt that means the damage would be 240 megatons ( getting hit by 10 KE missiles. that hurts).. Time 64 for total SHTL on1 ISD2 or time 15 for ISD1.

So Flak burst could be a hazard.. Combine that with the 100's LTL which
would score a occassional direct hit...

the battle is not a cake walk for either side..


If the blast is closer?...

Where are you getting these numbers for the ISD's HTL's numbers and weapons yield? The only one I've ever seen is in the SW-Ep.II:ICS for the Acclamator's HTL and LTL's.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, a mere 2000 gigatons is fairly generous. All attempts to scale weapons from the Acclamator's HTL's to the ISD's main weapons result in firepower within the Yottaton or Petaton Range. However, most people continue to use the 200 GT turbolasers because in almost all cases it is more than enough, and not everyone will accept scaled figures as accurate for obvious reasons.

[Mr Bean]

Thats high end Ossus

Remeber while Nitrum and you are oppomistic I'm quite the skeptic and bassing it on a numrours amount of things place the ISD MK II HTL in the very low Tera-ton range(2.5-15) and mediums are almost certinaly improved guns off the Transports meaning 250-400 Giga-tons

[Master of Ossus]

Really? Only TT range? What did you base that off of? I can't get them that low.