Why do people think the Andromeda is so powerful?

[Mr Bean]

Simple reasurch time and observed effects in EU at least aginst Ships
Sure PHYSICAL scalling can get you that high but here is somthing you must consider

A Peta level blast has enough power to go in one side of an Unshielded ISD out there othere and still a bit of energy left over, while we see *chucks taken out of hulls we dont see giant kill-o-zap TL going in one side and out the other


That and a ETA on how long a six hour BDZ would take at that .5 Miles deep

And the damage the Coral Vale took while being hit by Thrawns ISD in DFR
Though that one is largly Guestmation as I don't know Depth and hits it took

[Crossover_Maniac]

Simple reasurch time and observed effects in EU at least aginst Ships
Sure PHYSICAL scalling can get you that high but here is somthing you must consider

A Peta level blast has enough power to go in one side of an Unshielded ISD out there othere and still a bit of energy left over, while we see *chucks taken out of hulls we dont see giant kill-o-zap TL going in one side and out the other

Actually, the 200 gigaton blasts should be enough to destroy an unshielded ISD. In fact, if all of the energy was absorbed, the ship would be vaporized.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, the 200 gigaton blasts should be enough to destroy an unshielded ISD. In fact, if all of the energy was absorbed, the ship would be vaporized.

Wrong. ISD's have absorbed HTL shots from each other, unshielded, and survived the attack. Note that these were almost certainly significantly greater firepower shots than a mere 200GTs. Mind you, they cannot survive indefinitely against such firepower, but you overstate their weakness.

[omegaLancer]

would not 23MT of energy totally absorb by the Hull be more damaging than the 20 mt of Kinectic energy that a KE missile generate.. First every Fan of Serie alway states how the AG field soften the impact of the missiles... And then they say how the missile actually punch thru the ship, meaning that the total energy is not absorb by the ship...

The fact is A 23 MT nuke detonating adjacent to the Andromeda would be very damaging..A board section of the Fullerene Hull would be Vaporized by the energy generated, and even if a ship survive this damage it survive, all un harded system mounted on the hull ( sensors and Communication equipment ) would be damage if not destroy..Greatily hampering her fighting abilities...

And the like every one point out the 2000GT figure I use is highily conservative... I base it on the fact that the Quad turbo laser used on the Troop transport would be akin to 5" guns used by modern navies..

such guns would be the main battery on destroyers and troop transport on ship, but on Battle cruiser and Battle ships the main battery where 10 to 16" guns, having a 10x to 20x increase in fire power.. and a star destroyer main batteries should have a similar increase if not greater..

[CmdrWilkens]

(Wow. It'll only take ten thousand missles to equal [/i]one[/i] 20 year old turbolaser blast.)

Gee, I guess the Andromeda is screwed. :)

The ISD shields couldn't stop the relatively show moving asteroids in the Hoth system from damaging their ships. What do you think will happen when their shields goes upagainst projectiles going 0.9c? They're going straight through the shields, hull, and exiting out the other side.

1) ISD's shields were down
2) ISD's shields were down
3) ISD's shields were down
4) ISD's shields were down
5) ISD's shields were down

Now having made that point I'll make the further point:

Other than superficial damage to the superstructure (and quite possibly damage to the communications center or bridge which are rather more exposed) that rock did nothing. The shilouette of the bridge is still perfectly in line which means there is no real damage visible to the actual vessel itself and the Captain's death is infered rather than confirmed. In fact it is highly likely that he lived but merely had communicaitons shut off by the impact hitting his antennae farm.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Actually, the 200 gigaton blasts should be enough to destroy an unshielded ISD. In fact, if all of the energy was absorbed, the ship would be vaporized.

Wrong. ISD's have absorbed HTL shots from each other, unshielded, and survived the attack. Note that these were almost certainly significantly greater firepower shots than a mere 200GTs. Mind you, they cannot survive indefinitely against such firepower, but you overstate their weakness.

There is no metal in existance that can absorb that much thermal energy without being vaporized. None, zero, zelch, nadda. Either the shields were up or the heavy turbolasers yields are not 200 GT's.

[Stravo]

Actually, the 200 gigaton blasts should be enough to destroy an unshielded ISD. In fact, if all of the energy was absorbed, the ship would be vaporized.

Wrong. ISD's have absorbed HTL shots from each other, unshielded, and survived the attack. Note that these were almost certainly significantly greater firepower shots than a mere 200GTs. Mind you, they cannot survive indefinitely against such firepower, but you overstate their weakness.

There is no metal in existance that can absorb that much thermal energy without being vaporized. None, zero, zelch, nadda. Either the shields were up or the heavy turbolasers yields are not 200 GT's.

Just like there is no weapon in existence that fires 200 Gigaton blasts of energy. You can accept that but you can't accept a metallurgical leap in knowledge that allows for the creation of such armor? WHY create weapons that can fire such obscene bursts of energy if not BECAUSE you need to punch through powerful shields and armor??

[Crossover_Maniac]

(Wow. It'll only take ten thousand missles to equal [/i]one[/i] 20 year old turbolaser blast.)

Gee, I guess the Andromeda is screwed.

The ISD shields couldn't stop the relatively show moving asteroids in the Hoth system from damaging their ships. What do you think will happen when their shields goes upagainst projectiles going 0.9c? They're going straight through the shields, hull, and exiting out the other side.

1) ISD's shields were down
2) ISD's shields were down
3) ISD's shields were down
4) ISD's shields were down
5) ISD's shields were down

Now having made that point I'll make the further point:

Other than superficial damage to the superstructure (and quite possibly damage to the communications center or bridge which are rather more exposed) that rock did nothing. The shilouette of the bridge is still perfectly in line which means there is no real damage visible to the actual vessel itself and the Captain's death is infered rather than confirmed. In fact it is highly likely that he lived but merely had communicaitons shut off by the impact hitting his antennae farm.

Are you talking about the theory that shields have to dropped in order to send holo-com transmissions. Because I don't recall anyone dropping their shields for a communication conference in TESB, I've watched the movie about a dozen times. I do recall the following dialogue:

VADER
Yes, Admiral?

PIETT
Our ships have sighted the
Millennium Falcon, lord. But...
it has entered an asteroid field
and we cannot risk...

VADER
(interrupting)
Asteroids do not concern me,
Admiral. I want that ship and
not excuses.

PIETT
Yes, lord.

and

NEEDA
(in hologram)
... and that, Lord Vader, was the
last time they appeared in any of
our scopes. Considering the amount
of damage we've sustained, they
must have been destroyed.

Of course, there's reasonable explanations to explain away the dangers the Hoth asteroids placed on the fleet away. Maybe, Admiral Piett was feeling really suicidial that day and wanted to whine to Vader about the harmless space debris. Or maybe Captain Needa was talking about the damage they substained dropping their shields, risk getting nailed by an asteroid (so much for the deadly accuracy of turbolaser gunners) just to have a fancy holo-conference instead of using the communication systems that didn't require shields to be dropped. These half-baked excuses sounds almost as bad as idiotic idea that Federation ship are immune to lasers.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Wrong. ISD's have absorbed HTL shots from each other, unshielded, and survived the attack. Note that these were almost certainly significantly greater firepower shots than a mere 200GTs. Mind you, they cannot survive indefinitely against such firepower, but you overstate their weakness.

There is no metal in existance that can absorb that much thermal energy without being vaporized. None, zero, zelch, nadda. Either the shields were up or the heavy turbolasers yields are not 200 GT's.

Just like there is no weapon in existence that fires 200 Gigaton blasts of energy. You can accept that but you can't accept a metallurgical leap in knowledge that allows for the creation of such armor? WHY create weapons that can fire such obscene bursts of energy if not BECAUSE you need to punch through powerful shields and armor??

I believe it was a rule made by Warsies in the Trek vs. Wars fight: no imaginary transuranic metals. Transuranic metals are not stable but decays rapidly. So, that leaves only the metals in the periodic table for SW to draw from.Also, the highest specific heat for matter ever recorded is 13,600 J/(K*kg). Any sort of material with this specific heat would be in a gaseous state. This leaves only common metals like iron or titanium for SW ships to draw from. I'd suggest tungsten. It's 3 times heavy than steel but is twice as strong and has a higher melting point than ceramics.

[NecronLord]

Err when did this become an ISD versus Andromeda debate?

Let's put her back in her place.

Necron Scythe class ship vs andromeda ascendant

Scythe;

capable G-forces

96,472,833,136,891,808,696 g(low end)

I kid ye not

Regenerative armour, able to be controlled at a subatomic level at a whim.

Main weapons capable of disintegrating the andromeda in about a second

It's not that powerful.

[SirNitram]

There is no metal in existance that can absorb that much thermal energy without being vaporized. None, zero, zelch, nadda. Either the shields were up or the heavy turbolasers yields are not 200 GT's.

Just like there is no weapon in existence that fires 200 Gigaton blasts of energy. You can accept that but you can't accept a metallurgical leap in knowledge that allows for the creation of such armor? WHY create weapons that can fire such obscene bursts of energy if not BECAUSE you need to punch through powerful shields and armor??

I believe it was a rule made by Warsies in the Trek vs. Wars fight: no imaginary transuranic metals. Transuranic metals are not stable but decays rapidly. So, that leaves only the metals in the periodic table for SW to draw from.Also, the highest specific heat for matter ever recorded is 13,600 J/(K*kg). Any sort of material with this specific heat would be in a gaseous state. This leaves only common metals like iron or titanium for SW ships to draw from. I'd suggest tungsten. It's 3 times heavy than steel but is twice as strong and has a higher melting point than ceramics.

Actually, we have the material which can absorb all these gigatons of mostly-thermal energy. It's called Neutronium, and it's present in Imperial armour. It's not imaginary, nor is it impossible. It's creation process is detailed in the Ep II ICS. Have a nice day.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Actually, we have the material which can absorb all these gigatons of mostly-thermal energy. It's called Neutronium, and it's present in Imperial armour. It's not imaginary, nor is it impossible. It's creation process is detailed in the Ep II ICS. Have a nice day.

Care to tell me what neutronium is. And please don't let your answer be what I'm think it is.

[SirNitram]

Actually, we have the material which can absorb all these gigatons of mostly-thermal energy. It's called Neutronium, and it's present in Imperial armour. It's not imaginary, nor is it impossible. It's creation process is detailed in the Ep II ICS. Have a nice day.

Care to tell me what neutronium is. And please don't let your answer be what I'm think it is.

The superdense material from Neutron Stars, effectively atoms made entirely of neutrons with no empty space between each other. This is the stuff in Imperial Dura-armour. Now, you will commence the oft-repeated whines against this.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Actually, we have the material which can absorb all these gigatons of mostly-thermal energy. It's called Neutronium, and it's present in Imperial armour. It's not imaginary, nor is it impossible. It's creation process is detailed in the Ep II ICS. Have a nice day.

Care to tell me what neutronium is. And please don't let your answer be what I'm think it is.

The superdense material from Neutron Stars, effectively atoms made entirely of neutrons with no empty space between each other. This is the stuff in Imperial Dura-armour. Now, you will commence the oft-repeated whines against this.

This that what you fanatical Warsies call the arguments from the opposition. Well, I guess it's time for me to start 'whining'.

Things you should know about neutronium:

1). Density on the order of terratons per cubic meter
(one teaspoon will weigh millions of tons

2). Can only exist in a gravational field hundred of
billions of g's.

Let's see if that stuff they call neutronium fits the
bill

Found in the
Star
Trek vs. Star Wars:

"No," they say, "according to 'Timetales',
quoting the "Cracken's Threat Dossier", neutronium,
lomite, and zersium were found together in a rich vein
under the reddish soil of the fourth moon of a planet
called Dathomir.

From the novel Darksaber:

("Daala turned and ripped one of the
electric-blue glowtorches from the floor behind her.
'Enough!' she shouted. She raised the durasteel staff
high and smashed it down upon the tabletop. The
glowcrystal exploded into shards with crackling blue
sparks, and transparent fragments flew in all
directions. She hammered the rod down again and again,
denting the table, bending the staff, and fragmenting
the end." (Darksaber, p. 133)

Now, let's see. SW neutronium is found with deposits of various metals under the dirt of a moon and can be bent by an angry woman. Yeah, that sounds like real-life neutronium .

[SirNitram]

It's called veins left by a crashed starship. Thanks for trying the arguments beaten down thousands of times, kid. It's fun to watch. There's only been a quarter of a million years of hyperdrive powered flight.. Don't suppose a ship could have crashed a while ago there?

And no, Neutronium does NOT require massive gravitational forces to remain in existance. This is nonsense. An atom doesn't need gravity to hold it together, it's help together by the Strong Nuclear Force.. But that's High School physics, at least ten years ahead of you.

As for the incredible mass, I say unto you, so? This is an Empire that builds moons and sends them across the Galaxy in hours.

[omegaLancer]

The fact is that At Brookhaven lab they created a small 4 neutron piece of Nuetronium.. The 4 particle structure was fairly stable and used as a target for beam of Ur ions......

The Hull is not solid Neutronium but is cladded to form an alloy called Quandrium, which is also used in the Construction of Tie fighter and is highily resisted to Energy attacks..

[SirNitram]

The fact is that At Brookhaven lab they created a small 4 neutron piece of Nuetronium.. The 4 particle structure was fairly stable and used as a target for beam of Ur ions......

The Hull is not solid Neutronium but is cladded to form an alloy called Quandrium, which is also used in the Construction of Tie fighter and is highily resisted to Energy attacks..

Holy shit! People made it? Do you have a link to the article, or an idea where to start looking?

[HemlockGrey]

First, four neutrons...

Tomorrow....the Acclamators!

[SirNitram]

First, four neutrons...

Tomorrow....the Acclamators!

Viva la Empire!

[omegaLancer]

The original article was posted on Unisci.com.. But last month their editor die and they closed the web site ( why, It was one of the best science news sites on the web), I tried back tracking it on AIP ( but their web search option suck... )

[Crossover_Maniac]

It's called veins left by a crashed starship. Thanks for trying the arguments beaten down thousands of times, kid. It's fun to watch. There's only been a quarter of a million years of hyperdrive powered flight.. Don't suppose a ship could have crashed a while ago there?

FromStar Wars Galaxies

Some of the imported resources include those needed to create dura-armor: neutronium (found on Koratas, a moon of the fascinating planet Dathomir), zersium (found on the ocean planet Alluuvia and the moon Koratas mentioned above), and lommite (found on Dorvalla, Elom, and Koratas).

Those darn Trek cultists set up a fake star wars site to make it look like neutronium was mined off the surface of moons.

And no, Neutronium does NOT require massive gravitational forces to remain in existance. This is nonsense.

From ScienceNet

Any of a class of extremely dense, compact stars thought to be composed mainly of neutrons with a thin outer atmosphere of primarily iron atoms and electrons and protons. Though typically about 12 mi (20 km) in diameter, they have a mass roughly twice the sun's and thus extremely high densities (about a hundred trillion times that of water). Neutron stars have very strong magnetic fields. A solid surface differentiates them from black holes. Below it, the pressure is much too high for individual atoms to exist; protons and electrons are compacted together into neutrons. The discovery of pulsars in 1967 provided the first evidence of the existence of neutron stars, predicted in the early 1930s and believed by most investigators to be formed in supernova explosions.

I suppose that site was made by moronic Trekkie high school dropouts as well.

An atom doesn't need gravity to hold it together, it's help together by the Strong Nuclear Force..

What a moron! Don't you know anything about cosmology? Because if you did, you're know that neutron stars are the results of the strong nuclear forces acting against the force of gravity. Neutron stars are formed when the gravitational forces of a star becomes too great for protons and electrons from being separated by the strong nuclear force (without it, negatively charged electrons would come in contact with positively charged protons) and form into neutrons. Atoms are mostly empty space (to give you a prespective of the scale between the size of an atom and the neutrons and protons composing the nucleus, if protons and neutons were the size of marbles (twice the size of your brain), the atom would be the size of a football field). But due to the intense gravity of a neutron star, the neutrons are tightly packed together forming a giant nucleus (the neutron star). In fact, the strong nuclear force keeps the star from becoming a blackhole (if the star is too massive, then gravity will overcome the strong nuclear force and collapse the stellar material into a singularity). That's why neutronium is so dense (and why no human being should be able to pick up durasteel if it was composed of neutronium). If you don't believe me, just check out a book at the library about neutron stars. I know it's a little more of a challenge to read than your coloring book (no pictures ), but I'm sure if you can find someone who's functionally literate to help you.

But that's High School physics, at least ten years ahead of you.

I'm a college graduate, jackass. High school teachers' education is a far cry from my own.

As for the incredible mass, I say unto you, so? This is an Empire that builds moons and sends them across the Galaxy in hours.[/quote]

Care to explain how the woman was wavering around the durasteel bar and manage to bend the industructable SW metal?

[Master of Ossus]

Gravity is not needed to hold Neutronium together AFTER IT IS FORMED. This:

Any of a class of extremely dense, compact stars thought to be composed mainly of neutrons with a thin outer atmosphere of primarily iron atoms and electrons and protons. Though typically about 12 mi (20 km) in diameter, they have a mass roughly twice the sun's and thus extremely high densities (about a hundred trillion times that of water). Neutron stars have very strong magnetic fields. A solid surface differentiates them from black holes. Below it, the pressure is much too high for individual atoms to exist; protons and electrons are compacted together into neutrons. The discovery of pulsars in 1967 provided the first evidence of the existence of neutron stars, predicted in the early 1930s and believed by most investigators to be formed in supernova explosions.

In fact confirms that. Neutronium is not mined off the SURFACE of moons. It is instead mined from veins beneath the surface of the moon, possibly ones resulting from the destruction (natural or otherwise), of a neutron star.

[omegaLancer]

Trying to back track on the Neutronium, i found several interesting things. First is the fact that the creation of Neurtonium and other structure build along the lines of Sub atomic structure ( this is includes Gloun structure called Glue balls, Bose enstein condensate and Fermi gas) Actually has a name it caller nucleonic femtotechnology..


This science include neutronium base computers, creation of Higgsinium a subtance 10 E 18 denser than water. The creation of femtobots machines that work on a subatomics scales...

For a Galactic wide civilation like SW this would be a logical technology to possess and would also explain Hypermatter reactor and Turbolaser..

[septesix]

Gravity is not needed to hold Neutronium together AFTER IT IS FORMED. This:

Any of a class of extremely dense, compact stars thought to be composed mainly of neutrons with a thin outer atmosphere of primarily iron atoms and electrons and protons. Though typically about 12 mi (20 km) in diameter, they have a mass roughly twice the sun's and thus extremely high densities (about a hundred trillion times that of water). Neutron stars have very strong magnetic fields. A solid surface differentiates them from black holes. Below it, the pressure is much too high for individual atoms to exist; protons and electrons are compacted together into neutrons. The discovery of pulsars in 1967 provided the first evidence of the existence of neutron stars, predicted in the early 1930s and believed by most investigators to be formed in supernova explosions.

In fact confirms that. Neutronium is not mined off the SURFACE of moons. It is instead mined from veins beneath the surface of the moon, possibly ones resulting from the destruction (natural or otherwise), of a neutron star.

Are you just plain ignorant or what? If Neutronium is really mined of the surface of the "moon", the second it leaves the the neutron star, the strong nulcear force will win against gravity (since there aren't as much masses around), and the piece that you mined will probably expaned back into normal atoms.

beside, care to explain how a normal Women can hold something that are 1 hundred trillions times more massive than water of the same volume?

[omegaLancer]

septesix said

"Are you just plain ignorant or what? If Neutronium is really mined of the surface of the "moon", the second it leaves the the neutron star, the strong nulcear force will win against gravity (since there aren't as much masses around), and the piece that you mined will probably expaned back into normal atoms"

The Strong force would tend to keep neutronium as neutronium.. Such form of Exotic matter ( Glue ball. Strange matter , etc ) trend to be very stable.. It even feared that Strange matter ( matter compose totally of Strange quarks) would cause a type of Chain reaction, reacting via the strong force converting all normal matter to strange..

Gravity forces the electrons to combine with the protons, both particles are normally attracted to each other, but due to the fact that they are both Fermions, the exclusionary principle prevent them normally coming in contact...

The reason Neutron decay is the Weak force... but if it in neutronium this is over power by the strong force as long as the Nuetron occur in pairs with spin states that are oppose each other ( this is called a Spinor state)...

If there is an odd numbers of neutrons, the odd neutron is repel or force away from via the Exclusion forces (this is a function of the interaction of the qantum wave function of Fermions..see Pauli exclusionary principle) and is the main reason why protons do not normal combine with electrons to from neutronium) solitary neutrons decay rapidly via the weak force....

Neutronium would sink to the core of the planet or moon ( Normal matter would be like a gas to it and would be able to support it) so I find it hard to explain the mining off a moon unless what is called Neutronium is a stable rare Transuranic element ( I know there are not any, but Some scientist believe that they may be small island of stable nuclear numbers beyond uranium, none been found yet..) and then is process in order to convert it to pure neutronium via nucleonic femtotechnology by collasping the electrons in to the nucleus..

How a old woman could do it, maybe she is strong in the force