Boarding Action: Andromeda vs. ISD II

[Antediluvian]

Depends, what can the IG-88 do?

Dual Repeating Blaster Cannons, Speced to be able to do anything from 5KM Head-shots to shooting down TIE's is IG-88s main weapon, Second are concussion gernades eight count plus a load of neural toxins and acides plus a plasma cutter NTM his strength which is suffecent to rip apart a Blast door

Remeber E-11's? Blow Holes in Walls? But they only spark Blast Doors?(ANH Escape from DS right after Obi dies)

He also has of course 360 Vision in IR, Sonic and Sonar plus built in radio and sub-space communcators, Also logical to have a Hyperwave set but they are simply to big to mount on a droid like him
The only thing he does not have is a personal shield generator but thats ok he moves(Short distances anyway) 20x faster than Humans

Think *Matrix Bullet time but slightly slower than that

He's a bad ass walking death machine who nearly took over the Galaxy and there where four of him to start with

And undoubtedly sentient since he went into business for himself as a bounty hunter.

[Crossover_Maniac]

(No, they don't. Otherwise, the CW wouldn't be using them.)

Perhaps you didn't read MW's page on the subject. Nanobots suck as offensive weapons.

I believe he was saying they sucked as weapons for the conventual war. We're talking about a boarding party here. Big difference.

(Tell that to Obi Wan. "If droids could think for themselves, we wouldn't be here." This quote is from Episode II: AotC. Droids aren't truly sentient, instead are programmed to give people the impression they are sentient. Also, while a few people seen a Wookie rip the arms off a droid, no one ever seen a droid rip off a wookie's arms until Rommie pays Chewbacca a visit.)

You are aware that's twenty years ago right?

There are several classes of droids that are sentient, like the protoccol droids and R-2 units.

And the SW intergalactic civilization has been around for at least a thousand generation (25,000 years), and, all of sudden, they make some technological jump and now has sentient droids. I doubt that.

[Crossover_Maniac]

And for that matter, got any proof that Rommie is stronger than a Wookie?

She leaps a dozen or so feet into the air and throws people around like a rag doll, which is more that what we'd see Chewbacca do.

[Master of Ossus]

IG-88 is also capable of subtlety. He has a molecular garrote for things like that.

[Antediluvian]

(I believe he was saying they sucked as weapons for the conventual war. We're talking about a boarding party here. Big difference.)

No difference. He's saying they suck as weapons, period. Besides, if they can't pierce Imperial armor, then they're useless as an offensive weapon in this boarding action.



(And the SW intergalactic civilization has been around for at least a thousand generation (25,000 years), and, all of sudden, they make some technological jump and now has sentient droids. I doubt that.)

Your doubt doesn't mean anything.

[Mr Bean]

And the SW intergalactic civilization has been around for at least a thousand generation (25,000 years), and, all of sudden, they make some technological jump and now has sentient droids. I doubt that.

Sentient depends on how you mean, Unless you wiped a droids memory it will become sentient(If you belive we are nothing more than the sum of our experances) and it is true that each model of driod desipite simple speed upgrades in code and the like behave diffrently from each other.

However this can be consider Sentient -, or one step below true Sentience but they do a damn good impression

The only TRUELY sentient droid so far was IG-88 and considering what he did(Read tried and kill all organic life ) prephaps theres a damn good reason why they don't want them *quite that high

Oh OAN Xim the Depost had semi-sentient droids over 25k Years ago and that was just his War-robots, we never see or hear of any other kids at that point

[Antediluvian]

And for that matter, got any proof that Rommie is stronger than a Wookie?

She leaps a dozen or so feet into the air and throws people around like a rag doll, which is more that what we'd see Chewbacca do.

That's still not proof.

[Mr Bean]

She leaps a dozen or so feet into the air and throws people around like a rag doll, which is more that what we'd see Chewbacca do.

Lets drag EU in here and a quoet from COPL the only time Chewy rips somone's arms off Isord describes it as that Chew looked casusal just ripped a night-sisters arm off

Also he has with-stould vacume before(Hmm Anyone know the PPSI that would requier to reist the pull of Vacume and not only that but move aginst it?)

[Master of Ossus]

No. Vuffi Raa is also clearly sentient, as is another droid whose name, I believe, was Q7-R9 (or something like that). Also, Gorm the Dissolver is sentient, assuming that he began as a droid, and Guri was sentient.

[Crossover_Maniac]

(I believe he was saying they sucked as weapons for the conventual war. We're talking about a boarding party here. Big difference.)

No difference. He's saying they suck as weapons, period. Besides, if they can't pierce Imperial armor, then they're useless as an offensive weapon in this boarding action.

Do you actually think for yourself or do you just regurgitate everything Mike spoonfeeds you? Did it ever occur to you to at least think for a second and evaluate everything in Mike's nanotech page?

(And the SW intergalactic civilization has been around for at least a thousand generation (25,000 years), and, all of sudden, they make some technological jump and now has sentient droids. I doubt that.)

Your doubt doesn't mean anything.

Nor does yours and Mike's doubts of nanotechnology for a weapon against boarding parties does either.

[Antediluvian]

(Rommie: made from spare parts lying around the Andromeda . Rommie's too expensive to mass produce. Yeah, right.)

So why aren't there more of her? For that matter, why aren't there more than one sentient android on any Commonwealth ship?

Did it occur to you that the only Rommie is sentient is because she's hooked to the Andromeda's AI?

[Antediluvian]

(Do you actually think for yourself or do you just regurgitate everything Mike spoonfeeds you? Did it ever occur to you to at least think for a second and evaluate everything in Mike's nanotech page?)

And now the flaming begins.

I've read it several times, thought on it, and agreed with his conclusions.




(Nor does yours and Mike's doubts of nanotechnology for a weapon against boarding parties does either.)


Since Mike is an engineer, I think he's qualified to speak on the usefulness of nano-technology, are you? If you disagree with his conclusions, feel free to e-mail him about it.

I repeat: if the nano-bots cannot pierce stormtrooper armor, then they're useless as an offensive weapon against them.

[Crossover_Maniac]

(Rommie: made from spare parts lying around the Andromeda . Rommie's too expensive to mass produce. Yeah, right.)

So why aren't there more of her? For that matter, why aren't there more than one sentient android on any Commonwealth ship?

From All Systems University

Artificial Life

Physical Characteristics
Artificial Life takes on many different forms - androids, robots, self-aware computer programs, collective machine consciousnesses and sentient starships.

and

Social Characteristics
Artificial life constitutes a sizeable minority of the population in the Known Worlds. Some artificial lifeforms are barely self-aware, no more intelligent than a domestic animal, while others seem nearly godlike in their knowledge and abilities. Under Commonwealth law, all machines and programs that pass a standardized set of intelligence tests are afforded full rights and citizenship.

There are, in fact, several planets ruled under AI's ("All Too Human").

Did it occur to you that the only Rommie is sentient is because she's hooked to the Andromeda's AI?

If you actually watch Andromeda, you'd know that

1). Ships are limited to light-speed communications or couriers
2). Rommie has gone on several missions with the Andromeda either on the other side of the solar system she was in or light-years away in another solar system.

You tell me if Rommie is only sentient because she's 'hooked to' Andromeda

[Antediluvian]

(You tell me if Rommie is only sentient because she's 'hooked to' Andromeda)

And yet whenever the ship's AI is screwed up, so is Rommie.

So it's obvious that's where it comes from.

[Antediluvian]

And that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more of her.

As for going off on missions, the AI obviously downloaded a part of it's program into her.

[Crossover_Maniac]

(Do you actually think for yourself or do you just regurgitate everything Mike spoonfeeds you? Did it ever occur to you to at least think for a second and evaluate everything in Mike's nanotech page?)

And now the flaming begins.

I've read it several times, thought on it, and agreed with his conclusions.




(Nor does yours and Mike's doubts of nanotechnology for a weapon against boarding parties does either.)


Since Mike is an engineer, I think he's qualified to speak on the usefulness of nano-technology, are you?

As a matter of fact, I am. I'm currently going for my Masters in Aerospace Engineering.

If you disagree with his conclusions, feel free to e-mail him about it.

Actually, I agree with him on some of the conclusions he came up with. I actually asked how can nanomachines communicate with each and coordinate their efforts for building macroscopic object, when I first heard the technology years ago. However, I think he's wrong on how fragile the nanotechnology is. This is in light of the fact that bacteria, an organic form of the nanobot, can survives in boiling water and inside nuclear reactors, and anything organic tends to be more fragile than something made of inorganic material like metal, I don't think they're going to be as easy to destroy as he claimed they are. And if you read the piece by Wong, he even said the technology has potential. His complaint was that they weren't the magic bullet that they are made to be in sci-fi. We're not talking about using nanotechnology to replace high yield weapons. We're talking about boarding an enemy vessel to take it as a war prize.

I repeat: if the nano-bots cannot pierce stormtrooper armor, then they're useless as an offensive weapon against them.

Nanobots are used to repair damage to the hulls of the GHC's. The material is at least as hard as Stormtrooper armor. If they can work with the material comprising the hull of the GHC's, then they should be able to work their way into stormtrooper armor.

[Crossover_Maniac]

(You tell me if Rommie is only sentient because she's 'hooked to' Andromeda)

And yet whenever the ship's AI is screwed up, so is Rommie.

So it's obvious that's where it comes from.

That's because she's interfaced with the ship's AI. You don't want to hook your computer up with one infected with a virus even though they're separate machines.

[Crossover_Maniac]

And that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more of her.

Care to explain why it didn't.

As for going off on missions, the AI obviously downloaded a part of it's program into her.

In "It's Hour Come 'Round At Last", the back-up AI for the Andromeda Ascendent took control of the ship. Rommie's avatar didn't shut down when the back-up AI took over.

[omegaLancer]

The Avatar Rommie can and does work independily of the Ship AI...

Does this make her any smarter or more self aware than 3Ceepo, who is capable of communicating in 6 million forms of communication, or who ponder if he possess a soul. Who Knowns fear and worries...

Is Rommie more capable than a Super war droid as a weapon of war? They are miles ahead of the cheaper war droids used by the Trade Federation... I doubt she would stand a chance against the Destroyer wardroid with their portable shields...

Droid/AI are so common place in the SW universe that a moisture farmer on a backwater planet, possess several just to monitor his water collecting equipment..

Rich Planets possess Droid Armies to fight for them... The Millenium falcon possess 4 Droid brains to control ship functions..

The different is that the CW recognize that AI have right and allow them freedom that would be unheard of in the SW universe ( even by the Republic).. While SW droids are kept in check by activity wiping the data gather by the advance Neuro nets that run trhem.. In cases when this does not occur we have AI that function like those of the Andromeda universe..

The standard Maria would be example of a low end AI in the common wealth, as are Slip fighters, which have an on board AI to allow them to fight without an operator... Not any different from the low end Droid or Droid tie fighters....

A ship AI would be a Hi end system, and Rommie is too, being program by down loading from the main Ship AI system... But are are R2D2 and 3CeePo... Rommie Cybernetic being higher end than 3Ceepo, but not anything that cannot be duplicate in SW universe...

[Renewed_Valour1]

Where was the defense Nanobot when the Retro Nanobot invaded the ship?Must have been out for lunch

Fighting back. However the colony that hit was large concentrated in one area in overwhelming numbers and took down the AIE net quickly. At best Rommie's own nanobots were limited to their own processing power or some backup systems. The Restorian nanobots came from the Balance of Judgment who had 300 years to improve his nanobots beyond that of Rommie. The BoJ would have known exactly where to strike to get maximum effect.

Commanders happen to like Observing things from the Bridge but there is a secondary bridge buried within the hull that ANY Captian could use if he wanted,

Apparently video cameras and viewscreens are an unknown in the Star Wars Galaxy… They would be a much better option than a window. On top of the half the time Warsies want to claim ranges beyond a light second for TLs and combat. At those ranges you aren't going to be seeing much looking out of a window. The design still smacks of stupidity placing the bridge in a vulnerable location.

Perhaps we should throw in Stronger/Smarter/Better Armored and Faster too?

Yes if the Nietzscheans are wearing fullerene mesh armor they are all those things compared to Storm Troopers.

I'll hunt down the name but it was quite earily in the series when we see Harper reparing the AD and complaining to Dillian about the ship

I'd like to see that since I've seen all of the first season several times and I don't recall that quote.

Right... And they where sitting in his face... How?

It doesn't take long for a f-lance to fire a intercept round after someone throws a grenade. They have a very quick reaction time and a tossed grenade will be more of a danger to the thrower than where it is going. Hunt was able to use his f-lance to intercept gauss rounds fired at a range of a few feet in front of him.

Agian however limited. It CAN grow its own food and likley has the Plant going 24/7 to slow the burden on stocks but can it take over 100% of the load?

Nanobots can also reclaim waste products to construct new food. There was a quote on slipstream that I'll try to dig up by Paul on the amount of food a GHC carries. I don't recall exactly how much but it was at least enough for several months if not as long as an ISD. In other words at least a few months waiting if they try to starve each other out.

More coming after I get some sleep and can think again.

[Antediluvian]

(That's because she's interfaced with the ship's AI. You don't want to hook your computer up with one infected with a virus even though they're separate machines.)

Didn't I say that she was connected with the ship's AI already?

[Antediluvian]

(Care to explain why it didn't.)

Because I asked why they don't make more like her, and you started going on about artifical life. How does that address my point?

My point is that making androids like her must be expensive, as there's no other reason for them not to create more for the military.



(In "It's Hour Come 'Round At Last", the back-up AI for the Andromeda Ascendent took control of the ship. Rommie's avatar didn't shut down when the back-up AI took over.)

And yet, when Andromeda was swallowed by that space monster, and Andromeda started taking damage and the AI started screwing up, down she went.

[Antediluvian]

(Nanobots are used to repair damage to the hulls of the GHC's. The material is at least as hard as Stormtrooper armor. If they can work with the material comprising the hull of the GHC's, then they should be able to work their way into stormtrooper armor.)

Got any proof for this claim?

And don't you think they have countermeasures for this?

[Antediluvian]

By the way, all that talk about light speed communications and the like? I knew all that already because I also watch Andromeda, okay?

[Antediluvian]

Grenades: I don't think it's the reaction of the effector that's a problem, just the reaction time of the firer.

What if a stormie throws a grenade around a corner before a Lancer/crewmen gets a shot off? Boom.

And as for hacking, how do you know that they can't hack into the computer with an R2 unit? Is there any evidence that their computers are vastly different?