BWAHAHAHA!Hobot wrote:http://maddox.xmission.com/matrix2.html
On topic: Matrix Reloaded>The Matrix
....IMO, obviously.
Moderator: NecronLord
BWAHAHAHA!Hobot wrote:http://maddox.xmission.com/matrix2.html
What you just said was the center plot of Reloaded, but it doesn't require a second layer of the Matrix with a simulated Zion.Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Not really.
The Matrix would still be flawed, and ultimately require rebooting. Zion and the resistance acts as the motivator for making the integral anomaly (the One) reinsert the code to restart the prime program. In essence, sending the "Sentinel Army" to eradicate Zion is the same thing as purging it. Since the Matrix restarts anyway, the affect is the same--just the false reality is retained for force the One to restart the Matrix. Otherwise the anomaly will still degrade and ultimately destroy the system.
Well, if there's so many unknown, making the assumption that there is a second layer to the Matrix is also futile and ludicrous.Think about the connnection theory.
It requires that Neo's plugs somehow turn into I/O transmitters and that he can unconsciously send commands through the Matrix, and to the other machine computers that will then simply relay it to the Sentinels--and somehow self-destruct them such that it looks like they ran into a wall of TK from the One. All by conincidence.
There are so many ludicrious unknowns and assumptions I don't know where to begin.
Oops! Forgot about that. But still, it would have been really cool to see Neo able to stop and zapp a bunch of Smiths in the endless CGI brawl... You know, that power was a surprise for the Merovingian ("...your predecessors were more respectful!"). Either that program never had to fight the other "Ones" or it's a new trick in Neo's version.Enforcer Talen wrote:he blocks bullets - isnt what he did to the sentinels the same principal?
I already brought up Enter the Matrix and this part of it in my post about the trailer at the end of the game. However, you misquoted. She says Neo is "trapped between the two worlds" not realities, and it makes a difference. It doesn't infer that there is a second Matrix.D.Turtle wrote:This is from another forum - I don't have the game (yet) so I can't say anything about its validity:
"I guess no one has read my post or played through the Enter the Matrix game, because if they had there would be no more speculation that the zion real world is another matrix.
The oracle said that Neo touched the source and now part of him is trapped between the two realities and the only one that can save him is Trinity."
Excellent post, MK. And also, it's the most pertinent. If infact we are to go along with the theory that the real world is actually a second Matrix, then it would be their only logical and valid option of completely resetting Zion. Why? Because the source is destroyed. It blew up. There cannot be Neo making the choice over again...unless they delete Zion and reboot. Furthermore, even if the Source did not blow up, it still wouldn't work if the reality was all "just a sham to continue to try and convince Neo to reset Zion again". Why? Because in "Enter the Matrix" the Keymaker specifically states that the key will only work once, and once it does, it cannot be used again. Period. There is no going to the source a second time. Therefore, the only way to reset Zion validly would be to press CTRL ALT DEL, close Zion.exe, and reinstall Zion.exeMKSheppard wrote:
When a program starts giving you errors, and threatens to corrupt your
system, you just open up Task Manager and End Process.
Neo started that entire error sequence the moment he told the Architecht
to essentially fuck off and saved Trinity instead of rebooting Zion.
If Zion was really a 2nd Matrix why didn't the machines just halt that
application the moment Neo walked out the door to save Trinity,
and pulled out their Zion Backup CDs to start the seventh Zion?
Perhaps that's what we're seeing here? Perhaps the Sentinels being stopped isn't really Neo stopping them. The entire system, be it the Matrix, and the Machines that work with it and for it, including the sentinels are now glitching because Neo did not step through that other door and reset everything. He's standing there, holding up his hand, and they recieve and error because he isn't supposed to be there.Because the One HAS to reboot the Matrix.
Didn't you listen to what you posted. If he walked back into the Matrix there would be a fatal system crash that'd kill everyone connected to the Matrix.
How could they if the machines were not somehow connected to the Matrix? The Agents could send requests until the cows came home, and the sentinels would never recieve them unless they themselves have some direct connection to the Matrix, or are connected to a mainframe that is, which in either case, they are still connected via a means.Illuminatus Primus wrote: How does this prove that the Matrix mainframe controls all the machines? It just means that the Agent programs can post requests for backup in the real world from the Sentinels.
You find this any less ludricious than a progam being able to download into a human brain that has no mechanical data storage device that we know of, but rather a non-mechanical one? And then be able to overide that person's will and assume control of their body.Think about the connnection theory.
It requires that Neo's plugs somehow turn into I/O transmitters and that he can unconsciously send commands through the Matrix, and to the other machine computers that will then simply relay it to the Sentinels--and somehow self-destruct them such that it looks like they ran into a wall of TK from the One. All by conincidence.
There are so many ludicrious unknowns and assumptions I don't know where to begin.
I'm not refering to Smith's control at all. I'm refering to his connection to the Matrix. What I meant was that if Smith is present in the real world, and present in the Matrix, thereby being connected to it in some form, that Neo is somehow connected to the Matrix through Smith. He is like a cable modem, connecting your computer to the internet.Illuminatus Primus wrote:The idea that plugs turn into I/O transmitters which instantly can send authorized self-destruct codes to specific Sentinels through the Matrix and out to the local Sentinel control system, and all in the correct format and such is something I have no words to describe.
And Smith is now a rogue program--he isn't an Agent and doesn't have control/authority in the Matrix system as he did before. So that's irrelevent.
Did anyone else notice that the Oracle's candies looked a lot like Red Pills?Enricko wrote:Well, there's already a couple of AI/program that act like humans, like the Oracle loving candies and the Merovangian loving a good blow job. If we are to believe these programs to be really sentients and are capable of love, jalousy, empathy and fear, what separates a human mind from an AI mind seems pretty thin.
But from the Smith/Bane example, the Matrix can mold the human brain to give a different personality.
Err---the machines would simply be mathematical/computer constructs if Zion is part of the Matrix--they're needed to maintain the facade and bring/force the One to return to the Source.Enforcer Talen wrote:its been mentioned - why dont the machines just do a ctrl alt del on zion, if its fake - why send all its millions of machines?
if zion is fake, as suggested by the end scene, then the various machines are also trapped in the matrix. my theory is that they are unable to press ctrl alt del cuz they dont know they are in a second matrix. smith, for example, didnt know about the previous 6 matrixes, he just wanted to get free with zion's death. but its already been destroyed - shouldnt be free?
Im thinking, a matrix restarts around them too - which would involve a third party, the architect and perhaps others, who imprison humanity and lesser machines both. the prophecy could be viewed as their escape from the set of matrixes.
Steven Snyder wrote:After watching Reloaded, I have a few thoughts on the matter which I will now disseminate.
Trinity
We first met Trinity in the original Matrix movie. She is an attractive woman who almost immediately falls in love with our hero, Neo. She is smart, capable, and a strong believer in Neo and actually saved his life with a kiss.
With the exception of the first line, I believe all of the above paragraph is a lie.
It is my belief that Trinity is not a real individual, but a program, not unlike the Oracle. She was created by the Enemy for the express purpose of controlling Neo, it is her influence that allows the Enemy to manipulate Neo and control his actions.
Don't believe me, keep reading...
In the first movie Trinity ressurected Neo by a kiss...Let's make sure we understand that. Neo is dead, Trinity kisses Neo and Neo is alive again. THIS IS NOT FRELLING SNOW WHITE HERE! A kiss isn't going to bring anyone back from the grave.
Trinity healed Neo in much the same fashion as Neo healed Trinity in reloaded. It worked because on both occasions they were both in the Matrix and you can bend laws like this.
Why did she heal him, because he died too early and he had much more to do, they had to bring him back so that he could complete his task.
It is Neo's love for Trinity that allows him to be controlled, by her and the Matrix. Neo would never intentionally let Trinity die, and the Enemy knows this. They knew he could only make one decision at the source, and it's the same decision he has made each time he has been there.
Trinity is nothing more than a tool of the Matrix, hell she might even be the mother of it...we are told the Oracle isn't.
A lot less than .1% of humans do not except the program. Zion has only 250,000 people. A large percentage of that is naturally born humans.Enricko wrote:For those who believe in a second matrix, can you tell us where the fun (and logic) in that? If 0.1 % of humans cannot accept the Matrix (first layer), how come they can accept the second without doubting the tangibility of Zion? And what about the humans that aren't born in the (first layer) Matrix? Those who live a stressful, but decent life in Zion? If humans truly feel the Matrix to be false, why haven't we heard about them complaining? Is it only in the first layer that humans feel that something is odd?
That's good, because I wasn't answering you. It was in answer to the general point concerning believing the Architect as a point of believing the real World was real. If you'd read the thread you'd know thatSir Sirius wrote:I wasn't talking about that.Rob Wilson wrote:Believing the Architect or not is irrelevant on the matter of whether the real world is a 'second Matrix'.
Your only evidence for a 'second Matrix' is a manifestation of powers unlike those when he's in the Matrix... not exactly compelling. And again there is no reason to stop the Machines simply Deleting Zion if it's simply a Programme. After all, if it's a programme there's nothing to stop them starting it again with new candidates, and waiting for a new One to come along and perform the reboot, there's simply no gain to keeping the present rogue One around as he's a danger to them.