The Matrix: The Machines' motives.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

A lot of people seem to take umbrage to the "Humans power the machines": motive in the Matrix. Although it is mentioned that it is combined with a form of fusion to provide the energy, a lot of people (who seem able to buy into the absurd amounts of energy required to power a SW superweapon, btw- no offense, but tha bugs me) complain.

So let's assume

1. To hold with their programming to protect humanity. We could say that they were originally a defense network that rebelled, but still held partially to its programming to ensure survival of the human race. Meaning that they could kill humans in a war or self-defense but humanity in general must continue to survive. It progresses from there.

2. Or perhaps the war ruined the Earth's ecosystem to the point where the machines made a deal with humanity to create an artificial environment to continue their way of life and as a means of shelter until the ecosystem repairs itself. To ensure the program takes, no human must know of the Matrix.

I just sort of pulled those ideas out of my ass, but I think they wouldn't take away from the machines as villains. The Agents could still be bad-ass, for one.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

SPOILERS



How about the fact we know Xion was destroyed about 5 times prior, thus the whole timeline in question might be subject to question. For all we know the Matrix is a form of robot entertainment and the topside world is a paradise. Either that or the 'holodeck inside a holodeck' Theory.

OR it could be some teeanger's dream in the end(hey, it worked for EVA)

[Sriad]

A lot of people seem to take umbrage to the "Humans power the machines": motive in the Matrix. Although it is mentioned that it is combined with a form of fusion to provide the energy, a lot of people (who seem able to buy into the absurd amounts of energy required to power a SW superweapon, btw- no offense, but tha bugs me) complain.

I'm not disagreeing with you really in this paragraph, just nit-picking:
As one poster here elloquently put it "It's like saying a 747 is powered by two rubber bands. Oh, and also four 50,000 horsepower gas turbines." I paraphrase a little, but that's about how it goes. The reason that no one (else) really minds about SW power sources is they're utterly fantastic; you can't poke holes in the "hypermatter" explanation because it's already made out of hot air. The "humans as batteries" idea, on the other hand, has sciencey sounding talk around it, but from a certain point of view it is even more preposterous; it could never ever be the best source of power available to the machines no matter how efficient they are at harnessing it. I mean, how about Geothermal? It looked pretty stormy out there, how about wind power? Or hydro electric? Or since they already have fusion... The point is that having humans as a power source totally FUBARs the suspension of disbelief for anyone with a healthy ammount of scientific insight. It is thematically appealing for the machines to do onto their one time oppressors as was done onto them, but there needs to be a better way.
But that's the point of your post anyway, so [/end nitpicking].

Honestly it would be acceptable to me if the machines are keeping humans around for purely egotistical reasons, to say to themselves "Look how much better we are than the humans, they tried to kill us all but we're keeping them around." Or maybe (and there's a chance that this actually IS the real reason. I hope.) they're trying to figure out what this "free will" shizz is all about; how it works, why it works and doesn't, whether humans can be completely quantitized and anticipated with sufficient knowlage of what's going on in their heads bio-chemically, or whether there is some sort of inimitable Soul. Hey, another place to rip off Dark City! But I digress.
I guess there isn't so much chance of this being the case, because if it were they wouldn't use the Matrix as a dumping ground for rogue programs, but we can always hope that they come out in the third movie and say that the battery thing was bullshit and here's the REAL reason. Or at least, we can hope that until Revolutions comes out and doesn't.

[Vympel]

Although it is mentioned that it is combined with a form of fusion to provide the energy, a lot of people (who seem able to buy into the absurd amounts of energy required to power a SW superweapon, btw- no offense, but tha bugs me) complain.

If Star Wars material said: "the Death Star is powered by a coal power plant, combined with a form of fission" then you could rightly say that they were being hypocritical for turning their noses up at the idiotic "human battery" idea.

We've done the calcs already- even the absolute best case scenario the entire human race couldn't produce more than a single standard nuclear power plant, IIRC.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

as I said, maybe the whole Xion vs Robots Matrix thing is a form of grundge entertainment robots on the surface watch after a nice solar radiation bath and a jog around the block? Maybe the architect is the Network executive?

[Vympel]

1. To hold with their programming to protect humanity. We could say that they were originally a defense network that rebelled, but still held partially to its programming to ensure survival of the human race. Meaning that they could kill humans in a war or self-defense but humanity in general must continue to survive. It progresses from there.

Have you seen the Animatrix clips on the web? They were for all purposes- mostly abject slavery, no specific defense network or protect humanity mandate was ever mentioned.

2. Or perhaps the war ruined the Earth's ecosystem to the point where the machines made a deal with humanity to create an artificial environment to continue their way of life and as a means of shelter until the ecosystem repairs itself. To ensure the program takes, no human must know of the Matrix.

I like that idea.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

You must remember the folks that made this movie were heavily inspired by anime and such. It wouldn't surprise me if the whole trilogy turned out to be some sorta grand statement about the entertainment business or is the dream of a spineless 14 year old boy

[Bob McDob]

Hehe, speaking of which, Animerica did an End of Evangelion spoof where Anakin jacks off over Amidala's dead body while Yoda's disembodied head absorbs Coruscant. I think.

[Sriad]

Hehe, speaking of which, Animerica did an End of Evangelion spoof where Anakin jacks off over Amidala's dead body while Yoda's disembodied head absorbs Coruscant. I think.

Well, I guess it wouldn't be the first time...

[Companion Cube]

Hehe, speaking of which, Animerica did an End of Evangelion spoof where Anakin jacks off over Amidala's dead body while Yoda's disembodied head absorbs Coruscant. I think.

ROFL!!

[Crown]

I like your theories, does anyone know as to whether or not the Animatrix will actually say one way or the other whether or not it was as Morpheus told Neo. I.e. a war between AI vs Humans?

[Lord of the Farce]

I like your theories, does anyone know as to whether or not the Animatrix will actually say one way or the other whether or not it was as Morpheus told Neo. I.e. a war between AI vs Humans?

If you're referring to the Second Renaisance (me need sleep), then yeah, there was a AI vs Human war (with the AI handily kicking ass). Of course, since Matrix Reloaded, that part of the Animatrix (supposely something from the Zion archives) is now suspect.

[Sea Skimmer]

If Star Wars material said: "the Death Star is powered by a coal power plant, combined with a form of fission" then you could rightly say that they were being hypocritical for turning their noses up at the idiotic "human battery" idea.

There was some sci fi book that had diesel fueled starships...

We've done the calcs already- even the absolute best case scenario the entire human race couldn't produce more than a single standard nuclear power plant, IIRC.

It was around the output of a single reactor, and most nuclear plants have 2-4 of them.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

Have you seen the Animatrix clips on the web? They were for all purposes- mostly abject slavery, no specific defense network or protect humanity mandate was ever mentioned.
.

My ideas assume that the Animatrix would have to be rewritten if they did it this way. These ideas would require a rewrite of all Matrix media from the beginning in order to provide a less absurd motive for keeping people in a dream world.

[Joe]

OR it could be some teeanger's dream in the end(hey, it worked for EVA)

EVA was not a teenager's dream.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

Its one of the interpretations of the ending of EVA. Many have different opinions of the ending, but the interpretation I stated is widely accepted.

[XaLEv]

Its one of the interpretations of the ending of EVA. Many have different opinions of the ending, but the interpretation I stated is widely accepted.

Blatant appeal to popularity. I'm going to enjoy watching the sparks when Spanky sees this.

*gets comfy with some Doritos*

[Joe]

An incorrect appeal to popularity, at that. I have never heard that interpretation before.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

I said widely accepted, but not the most popular theory, meaning that in several communities of EVA fans, fans have heard of, acknowledged, and understood the viability of the theory that the whole series was a dreamworld created by a depressed child. That doesn't mean the theory was the one fans like THE MOST.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

An incorrect appeal to popularity, at that. I have never heard that interpretation before.

That's funny. Bob McDob heard of that theory I stated. its not even MY theory. and I never said it was the most correct interpretation either. There's about 5 or 6 theories I heard about the end of the EVA TV series and each one is different and each one is recognized as a possible answer to the theory. Its your preference on whether or not you believe for it to be THE answer.

[Joe]

I said widely accepted, but not the most popular theory, meaning that in several communities of EVA fans, fans have heard of, acknowledged, and understood the viability of the theory that the whole series was a dreamworld created by a depressed child. That doesn't mean the theory was the one fans like THE MOST.

OK, still an appeal to popularity, since you were basing your argument primarily on the fact that others consider the theory valid.

[Joe]

An incorrect appeal to popularity, at that. I have never heard that interpretation before.

That's funny. Bob McDob heard of that theory I stated. its not even MY theory. and I never said it was the most correct interpretation either. There's about 5 or 6 theories I heard about the end of the EVA TV series and each one is different and each one is recognized as a possible answer to the theory. Its your preference on whether or not you believe for it to be THE answer.

According to the EVA Newtype Filmbook, the Shinji that we see at the end of the TV series is the Complemented Shinji; i.e., the human instrumentality project has been carried out (which would not have been done were the series a dream).

[ChaosBurnFlame]

They DO! Because YOU haven't met a group of fans that accept or know of that theory doesn't mean the rest of the world is as limited as your group. And do you have to be SO INSULTING to anyone you PERSONALLY disagree with?

[ChaosBurnFlame]

An incorrect appeal to popularity, at that. I have never heard that interpretation before.

That's funny. Bob McDob heard of that theory I stated. its not even MY theory. and I never said it was the most correct interpretation either. There's about 5 or 6 theories I heard about the end of the EVA TV series and each one is different and each one is recognized as a possible answer to the theory. Its your preference on whether or not you believe for it to be THE answer.

According to the EVA Newtype Filmbook, the Shinji that we see at the end of the TV series is the Complemented Shinji; i.e., the human instrumentality project has been carried out (which would not have been done were the series a dream).

That's funny, because several people I've talked to have interpreted many things from the ending of the series. As in what is the end of the TV series is what is occuring internally as EoE is what is occuring externally.

EVA does not have one solid answer as the ending. Anyone claiming to have THE answer has to either be Anno himself or a liar. Alot of fans consider the way Anno hates fanatical fans, aka 'otaku' and that the series might be a 'deconstruction' of the fan, that the ultimate message of the series is 'Get off your butts and play outside, otaku'.

Of course, these are ALL speculations.

[Joe]

They DO! Because YOU haven't met a group of fans that accept or know of that theory doesn't mean the rest of the world is as limited as your group. And do you have to be SO INSULTING to anyone you PERSONALLY disagree with?

Still appealing to popularity, I see. Popularity does not make a theory or interpretation of literature valid; I would guess that 80% of EVA fans believe that Hideaki Anno made EoE in retaliation for people disliking the ending of the TV series, but that doesn't alter the fact that the theory is bunk.

And no, I don't have to be insulting to everyone I disagree with (and I'm not), but I can make an exception for you, given some of the positions you've taken. That's a style over substance fallacy, by the way.

And if you think I'm mean, wait till Spanky jumps on your ass...