Health-care myths

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AdmiralKanos
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Health-care myths

Post by AdmiralKanos »

A different thread prompted me to post this: I just saw another American news reporter saying that the last thing they want is to adopt a Canadian-style universal health care system because of the exorbitant costs, and the endless repetition of this myth is starting to piss me off. Read this:
AllHealth.Org wrote:The U.S. spends more than other countries on health care, both in absolute dollars and in the share of total economic activity. Health spending per capita in the U.S. was over $4,600 in 2000, more than twice the average of about $2,000 for the other industrial nations belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). Health spending in the U.S. was 13 percent of gross domestic product, compared with Switzerland (10.7%), Germany (10.6%), Canada (9.1%), Japan (7.8%), and the United Kingdom (7.3%). Although many might equate high expenditures with excellent medical treatment, the health of the average American, as measured by life expectancy and infant mortality, is below the average of other major industrialized nations. This is due to a variety of factors, including diet, physical activity levels, births to teenager mothers and deaths from violence.
Does that puncture any myths? They continue to say:
Most of these nations have universal health care systems controlled through "global" (national) budgets. These budgets place an overall limit on spending, and all the players within the system-hospitals, doctors, and patients-must live within those limits. For patients, this may mean long waits for certain services, or policies that prevent anyone over a certain age from receiving expensive treatments, such as coronary bypass surgery or a hip replacement. In the U.S., there are no formal limits on who may get care. Elderly patients have elective surgeries that would be denied to them in other countries. This affects health care spending as well.
Naturally, they try to spin the data to make it seem as if people in other countries are constantly on waiting lists for medical care, evoking imagery of Russian bread lines (and of course, they ignore the fact that people who have extra health insurance or lots of money can still have these elective or non-governmentally covered procedures even under one of these oppressive "global" systems).

This is the second retreat for people still clinging to the myth of the American health care system's superiority; they pull their heads PARTWAY out of the sand and admit that the American health care system is overpriced and underperforming, but they pretend that its poor record is somehow mitigated by the flexibility of the free-market option, even though that option exists in other countries as well, as a SUPPLEMENT to the underlying government system (see "black/white fallacy").

I know this will sound strange to those of you who live in America, but in many countries, you do NOT see telethons to raise money for some sick child who needs surgery. That is an American oddity, necessitated by a health-care system with the worst value for money in the world. If I lived in the US, I'd be pissed off at this situation, more so when you discover what kind of money for-profit hospitals are bilking out of the system and out of their patients. I honestly don't understand why you guys aren't pissed off about it.
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Post by Hamel »

I have heard from many conservatives that Canadian hospitals can turn you away in an emergency (say you got shot in the chest), while American hospitals are legally required to provide care for you in a similar situation.

True, untrue, misleading?
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

My mom tried to use the example that Canadian doctors and nurses move to the U.S. because they're poor in Canada.

I said, "would you move 30 miles to make 100s of thousands of dollars more? What does this have to do with the ultimate justice and fairness of the system?"
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Post by Darth Wong »

Hamel wrote:I have heard from many conservatives that Canadian hospitals can turn you away in an emergency (say you got shot in the chest), while American hospitals are legally required to provide care for you in a similar situation.

True, untrue, misleading?
Complete falsehood. The number of outright lies being perpetrated about competing health-care systems in the US is staggering.
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Post by Shinova »

Meh, American health sucks majorly, period, end of question. HMOs, lack of nurses, corruption, all the good things.
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Post by TrailerParkJawa »

Im growing tired of our system as we speak. Im in some serious need of seasonal allgery medicine, yet I have no insurance so I cant see a doctor or get a prescription without paying the entire cost of the visit.

Im very afraid of getting very sick at this point because it could possibly cause me to lose my home. Im just glad I dont have any kids to worry about.
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Post by Knife »

I will not argue this particular item. Our health care is shit. Insurance corporate greed is fucking it up. There are doctors who can't even afford to practice general medicine or other more specialized medicine because of insurance costs. Millions of Americans can't afford health insurance. But god damnit, if you get jello instead of ice cream after a tonsalectomy, you can sue for millions and the lawyers get millions.


Scream Tort Reform. I know it doesn't solve everything, but alot of the cost in insurance is asshats abusing the system and making everyone else pay off settlements and judgments.
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Post by Dahak »

While the German system is incredibly expensive and currently under eventual reformation, I'd just say that in Germany you do not get denied necessary operations. There"s a budget per doctor on medicine, but not that I recall on operations.

And there are certainly no waiting lists for operations. Actually we have quite an over capacity, and even "import" ill people in need for an operation from countries like Norway or the UK.

And *everyone* in Germany is health insured...
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Post by Bug-Eyed Earl »

What about the rumor that your have an alotted amount of care per year that can run out, and that would leave you high and dry until January 1st
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Post by Hamel »

What the hell happened? A bunch of posts in this thread are gone!
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Post by AdmiralKanos »

Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:What about the rumor that your have an alotted amount of care per year that can run out, and that would leave you high and dry until January 1st
Also completely false. Who comes up with this stuff?
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Post by AdmiralKanos »

Hamel wrote:What the hell happened? A bunch of posts in this thread are gone!
The board was rolled back to 6 AM because somebody cracked a supermod account.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

AdmiralKanos wrote: Also completely false. Who comes up with this stuff?
Absolute morons?

The NHS here while far from perfect does get the job done.
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Post by Bug-Eyed Earl »

AdmiralKanos wrote:
Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:What about the rumor that your have an alotted amount of care per year that can run out, and that would leave you high and dry until January 1st
Also completely false. Who comes up with this stuff?
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Post by SPOOFE »

The problem with Americans is that they REALLY try to find ways to kill themselves. Half the population is obese, there're millions of smokers, people pop into McDonald's day in and day out (and get their kids accustomed to half-meat burgers at a young age, too). And for liesure activites, do Americans write or paint or perform dinner theatre? No, they go rock climbing or kayaking.

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Post by NecronLord »

American healthcare sucks. Really, even being impartial. It truly is nasty, particularly if you've got a terminal disease and require drugs.
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Post by TrailerParkJawa »

If you have a good job at a good company you can get decent health care. If you get laid off you are screwed.
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Post by h0rus »

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Im growing tired of our system as we speak. Im in some serious need of seasonal allgery medicine, yet I have no insurance so I cant see a doctor or get a prescription without paying the entire cost of the visit.

Im very afraid of getting very sick at this point because it could possibly cause me to lose my home. Im just glad I dont have any kids to worry about.
I hear ya man.
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Post by Faram »

Well can't say anything about American or Canedian healthcare.

But the last time I needed help this is what happened (Tuesday)

I crashed my bike, a bystander called an ambulance.

I got a ambulance ride to the hospital a bunch of xrays, bloodtests for common disease, inucalation(sp?) and painkillers.

Diagnosis dislocated shoulder, mild concussion and scratchs & brusies.

They fixed my shoulder took some confirmation x-rays and gave me prescriptions for more painkillers and a pysical therapy admission.

The total time ~3h cost about $30 or 240skr
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Post by Durandal »

Socializing healthcare is shaping up to be one of the Democrats' key issues this year. Virtually every Democratic candidate has some plan for socializing healthcare. I can't remember the details for each plan, but I think Gephardt's struck me as making the most sense.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

The health insurance for a teacher here in mesa is HORRIBLE. My german teacher had to have a root canal...but it would cost him considerable more WITH insurance than without....He elected to pull the tooth rather than starve his kids for a few weeks.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Durandal wrote:Socializing healthcare is shaping up to be one of the Democrats' key issues this year. Virtually every Democratic candidate has some plan for socializing healthcare. I can't remember the details for each plan, but I think Gephardt's struck me as making the most sense.
Here is Dean's

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/Page ... healthcare
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Post by Joe »

Durandal wrote:Socializing healthcare is shaping up to be one of the Democrats' key issues this year. Virtually every Democratic candidate has some plan for socializing healthcare. I can't remember the details for each plan, but I think Gephardt's struck me as making the most sense.
Doesn't matter, Hillary Clinton ruined (fortunately for those of us on the opposite end of the political spectrum) any chance of a national healthcare plan for at least several more years. Not to mention Oregon, one of the most liberal states in the Union, recently voted overwhelmingly against a comparable scheme.
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Post by Durandal »

Naturally, I don't expect anything to come of all the health care plan talk if one of the Democrats actually gets into office. It's all just campaign speech, but they've got some good ideas, nonetheless.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

SPOOFE wrote:The problem with Americans is that they REALLY try to find ways to kill themselves. Half the population is obese, there're millions of smokers, people pop into McDonald's day in and day out (and get their kids accustomed to half-meat burgers at a young age, too). And for liesure activites, do Americans write or paint or perform dinner theatre? No, they go rock climbing or kayaking.
Your complaining about people overeating, and then knock liesure activities which are physically demanding? :wtf:
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