Back up / Debunk this claim

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-27 02:26am

E1701 wrote: I was kinda referring to how the debris was blasted apart at speeds approaching 50,000 km/sec, almost *immediately* slowed way the hell down in that very scene, and then, by the time the Falcon had arrived, was moving at less than 200 m/sec...

I mean, realistically (for what that's worth ), the planet's own mass would have caused the material to deccelerate at slightly less than its own gravitational acceleration - for an Earth-like world, that's about 9.81 m/sec^2. What we *saw* was a decceleration on the order of -10,000 km/sec^2.... it don't add up, is all.

I ain't seeing this, I've looked, anyone care to back this claim up, or tear it down?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-05-27 02:43am

Other than technobabble i got nothing.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-05-27 03:43am

I'm assuming this was in relation to Alderaan exploding. If so I don'tsee how debris would slow down, unless there was a gravity thing happening. And some debris could have been going faster, so it had gone when Han & Co. arrived, only the slower stuff was still there.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-27 03:52am

What I'm asking is for people, with the knowhow, to check wheter this happened as he claimed it did, here is a clip if you need one:
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... tar-SE.avi

I have not been able to note any slow-down.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-05-27 04:01am

Question to ask is HOW long after Alderaan was blown apart did the Falcon arive?

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2003-05-27 04:06am

Maybe we need some calcs for the momentum....ah we won't, E1701's argument is a strawman.

Curtis Saxton wrote:The outermost parts of the cloud are expanding at a characteristic speed of 1.8x107 m/s.

Mike Wong wrote:Some of the debris is obviously travelling much more quickly than the main edge of the cloud, but some of it is travelling much more slowly as well.

Only E1701 is assuming every piece had a 50000 km/sec velocity.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2003-05-27 04:08am

Curtis Saxton wrote:The outermost parts of the cloud are expanding at a characteristic speed of 1.8x107 m/s.

(From the Superlaser section of the DS page in TC)

Mike Wong wrote:Some of the debris is obviously travelling much more quickly than the main edge of the cloud, but some of it is travelling much more slowly as well.

(From the Alderaan page)

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-27 04:09am

Typhonis 1 wrote:Question to ask is HOW long after Alderaan was blown apart did the Falcon arive?

Thats irrelevant, just ignore the whole falcon part, because it has no bearing on anything.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-27 11:33am

The fastest moving chunks were already out of Dodge by the time the Falcon arrived. ONLY the slower moving ones would still be in the immediate vicinity.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-05-27 11:39am

The falcon arrived in high orbit of where alderann should have been. Those rocks were the slow stagglers (the KE would not be evenly distributed), the majority was long gone.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-05-27 06:55pm

The Falcon was trying to arrive just a few planetary diameters away from Alderaan. Of course the asteroids in that part of space would be moving more slowly, as ones that were travelling faster would have long since moved further from the area. If you'll watch just after the DS destroyed the planet, you can actually see a cloud of debris remaining more or less where the planet was. That debris is moving very slowly. Other bits and pieces of the planet have already been sent flying outwards into space. When the Falcon arrived, only a few of the asteroids were left. This is confirmed by the relative lack of density in the asteroid belt, that most of the mass of the planet had already vacated that area of space. The argument is flawed.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-05-28 12:43am

It's exactly the sort of nonsense one must expect from E1701, who (unlike Alyeska) really hasn't ever moved on from his initial position way back when I called him a "Spacebattles Baby". He assumes that the velocity distribution of the debris cloud is a vertical line, and he claims heavy observed deceleration of the debris without backing this up; is he talking about the "fire rings?"

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-28 01:58am

It seems to me he was not saying there where two parts of differing velocities, but that the debris itself slowed down, this I ain't seeing when I look at the explosion-

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-05-29 06:07pm

AdmiralKanos wrote:It's exactly the sort of nonsense one must expect from E1701, who (unlike Alyeska) really hasn't ever moved on from his initial position way back when I called him a "Spacebattles Baby". He assumes that the velocity distribution of the debris cloud is a vertical line, and he claims heavy observed deceleration of the debris without backing this up; is he talking about the "fire rings?"

I think he means when the Falcon arrives from hyperspace and it gets all bumpy there are floating rocks that he mistook for a meteor storm, but instead were pieces of the planet. He claims that these couldn't be possibly be moving at X velocity, so they slowed down, or some nonsense like that. Of course, these could simply be the slower fragments that were left behind.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-05-29 06:11pm

No, as I've said, he speaks about the explosion of Alderaan primarily, here's further explanation by him:

E1701 wrote:HDS, just watch the scene where the planet explodes in slow-mo... you can't miss it. It's a result of the way movie FX were done at the time in terms of explosions, and pyrotechnics. The planet's explosion was created using a squip in a studio, and the sparks that blew out from it are initially moving at a much higher velocity - then friction and air resistance take over, and those particles rapidly slow down.

That's exactly what we see with the DS. And even though it's an obvious FX issue, if we take visuals as being absolutely truthful, then the fact remains, as far as we are concerned, that debris magically slowed down hellishly fast in about two seconds.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-29 07:33pm

E1701 wrote:HDS, just watch the scene where the planet explodes in slow-mo... you can't miss it. It's a result of the way movie FX were done at the time in terms of explosions, and pyrotechnics. The planet's explosion was created using a squip in a studio, and the sparks that blew out from it are initially moving at a much higher velocity - then friction and air resistance take over, and those particles rapidly slow down.

That's exactly what we see with the DS. And even though it's an obvious FX issue, if we take visuals as being absolutely truthful, then the fact remains, as far as we are concerned, that debris magically slowed down hellishly fast in about two seconds.

Perhaps you could ask him to quantify this deceleration and prove it instead of just babbling about it and explaining why he figures it should be there.