DS2 question

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-05-31 10:37pm

How often could it fire a full shot in a day? I can't remember

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-05-31 10:57pm

Ender wrote:How often could it fire a full shot in a day? I can't remember

I think once, but I'm not sure.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-05-31 11:07pm

YT300000 wrote:
Ender wrote:How often could it fire a full shot in a day? I can't remember
I think once, but I'm not sure.

That's the first one. Going by some RPG stats DS2 can fire once every 8 mins, but I don't know if that is solid because there are a few other limits to it.

Basically I'm tryign to determine the power output of the DS2's reactor

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-05-31 11:11pm

Saxton says the following:

It was also able to fire small bursts at least once every few minutes, as well as sparing enough energy to fulfill the Emperor's extreme contingency plan for the destruction of the Endor moon. The original Death Star took about a day to recharge.

Which basically means, "At least once per day."

Sorry, that's all I could come up with right now.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-05-31 11:51pm

Basically I'm tryign to determine the power output of the DS2's reactor

Good luck. I don't think it was ever specifically mentioned just how much more powerful the DS2 was compared to the DS1. If power scale linearly relative to size, then it's orders of magnitude more power. If it scales exponentially relative to size... well... let's not go there...

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-06-01 12:01am

SPOOFE wrote:
Basically I'm tryign to determine the power output of the DS2's reactor
Good luck. I don't think it was ever specifically mentioned just how much more powerful the DS2 was compared to the DS1. If power scale linearly relative to size, then it's orders of magnitude more power. If it scales exponentially relative to size... well... let's not go there...

The most solid statement to this effect is a vague description contained in the prologue of the novelisation of Return of the Jedi, which refers to the Death Star as "nearly twice as big as its predecessor, which Rebel forces had destroyed so many years before -- nearly twice as big, but more than twice as powerful".

Publius

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-06-01 01:29am

Which means most estimates are wrong for the first Death Star. They peg it's size at 160km in official lore. However, it's well noted that by scaling in the movies, the second Death Star is 900kms. Seems the first one should be larger. I want to know how much time transpired between Alderaan and Yavin Base. That way we know about how long it takes to power up the shot. The DS II obviously was blasting ships easily enough, and as noted, retained enough power to still blast Endor. (Don't forget, the Emperor said (in the novel that is) that he wanted Endor destroyed if the sheild went down. Was he expecting to go with it, or that he knew the DS II could withstand that blast?)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-06-01 01:47am

160 Km was a revision from 120 Km, which IIRC, came from Saxton's research...

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-01 11:57am

Publius wrote: The most solid statement to this effect is a vague description contained in the prologue of the novelisation of Return of the Jedi, which refers to the Death Star as "nearly twice as big as its predecessor, which Rebel forces had destroyed so many years before -- nearly twice as big, but more than twice as powerful".
Publius

That was written using official stats (120 km for DS1, 160 km for DS2). Mass-wise, if the diameters were those sizes, then the DS2 would be about twice as big as the DS1.

The first Death Stars reactor was about 3 km tall. It allowed one full power shot a day. The second Death Stars reactor was 16 km tall. Estimating, that would mean that if the power output was in proportion to size, the DS2 could generate ~ 150 times as much power as its predecesor. Since it is much bigger, lets say that 66% of that goes to the superlaser. That means a full power shot every 14.4 minutes. Thats about as long as it took the prototype DS to recharge. Since the prototype had almost no secondary systems, and was basically a metal frame, a reactor and a superlaser, this makes sense.

Keep in mind that these figures are extremely rough estimations.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-06-01 12:36pm

YT300000 wrote:
Publius wrote: The most solid statement to this effect is a vague description contained in the prologue of the novelisation of Return of the Jedi, which refers to the Death Star as "nearly twice as big as its predecessor, which Rebel forces had destroyed so many years before -- nearly twice as big, but more than twice as powerful".
Publius

The first Death Stars reactor was about 3 km tall. It allowed one full power shot a day. The second Death Stars reactor was 16 km tall.
Um, NO.
STAR WARS Incredible Cross-Sections gives an unambiguous schematic and perspective cross-section of the first Death Star, in which the reactor system seems proportionately bigger than the one in the Death Star II. In the older station, the reactor core and the chamber surrounding it are 36% and about 10% of the total diameter; in the newer version the equivalent features are about 13% and 3% of the larger diameter. The battle station size seems to have been increased by a greater multiple than the increase in the size of the main reactor systems. Perhaps the proportions in Death Star Technical Companion and STAR WARS Technical Journal can be excused as reflecting the design for an ideal complete version of the Death Star II.

That would make the sphere significantly bigger then your numbers suggest, throwing off your numbers

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-01 12:40pm

I stand corrected. Like I said, the numbers were extremely rough estimates. I also assumed that the reactors were proportionally the same size.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-06-01 12:45pm

Some vauge wording in the EGTV&V might help a bit:

"The new Death Star's weapon, the terrifying superlaser, featured substantially increased power, allowing it to be recharged in a matter of minutes rather than hours." -pg. 36

I'm presume they refer to a full-power shot. In a "matter of minutes" is something at least less than an hour. Have fun getting any calcs though.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-06-01 01:10pm

Three times per 24 hours at maximum power. Once per minute at nominal yield. These are WEG stats, but I don't think there's any better.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-06-01 01:20pm

YT300000 wrote:
Publius wrote: The most solid statement to this effect is a vague description contained in the prologue of the novelisation of Return of the Jedi, which refers to the Death Star as "nearly twice as big as its predecessor, which Rebel forces had destroyed so many years before -- nearly twice as big, but more than twice as powerful".
Publius
That was written using official stats (120 km for DS1, 160 km for DS2). Mass-wise, if the diameters were those sizes, then the DS2 would be about twice as big as the DS1.

The novelisation was written in conjunction with the preparation of the film itself. As such, it is to be considered "extremely accurate", and is inferior in terms of evidential weight only to the films (and screenplays), per Mr Cerasi's statement regarding canon and continuity. It was originally published in 1983, whereas West End Games' Star Wars Roleplaying Game was not published until 1987.

Notably, the July 1983 issue of CINEFEX contains a quote by Mr Richard Edlund calling the Death Star II "more like five hundred miles in diameter"; Bantha Tracks number 6 contains a quote from Mr Grant McCune (chief model maker for the first film) calling the Death Star "102+ miles in diameter". Although it is possible that the information used by Mr Kahn was subsequently changed, there is every reason to believe that he was using the correct sizes.

Publius

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-06-01 01:44pm

Cal Wright wrote:Which means most estimates are wrong for the first Death Star. They peg it's size at 160km in official lore. However, it's well noted that by scaling in the movies, the second Death Star is 900kms. Seems the first one should be larger. I want to know how much time transpired between Alderaan and Yavin Base. That way we know about how long it takes to power up the shot. The DS II obviously was blasting ships easily enough, and as noted, retained enough power to still blast Endor. (Don't forget, the Emperor said (in the novel that is) that he wanted Endor destroyed if the sheild went down. Was he expecting to go with it, or that he knew the DS II could withstand that blast?)

Bzzt.

In-movie evidence overrides the novelisation.

Scaling indicates a 160 km Death Star I (done my Saxton and made official in SW ICS)

Scaling indicates a 900 km Death Star II.

The best I can guess at is to scale the observed size of the reactor chamber from ROTJ from the apparent reactor size from the briefing display in ANH. It isn't a good method, though, and the novelisation scaling is wrong--so I wouldn't turn to that either.

TurboPhaser · Post by **TurboPhaser** » 2003-06-01 02:00pm

The Emperor was planning to blow up Endor? Thats not very smart. Even if the DS did survive the explosion of a planet a few hundred km away, the DS would be in a massive cloud of dirt and debris and other bits of planet floating around.

Would have made things very messy.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-06-01 02:02pm

Yeah, whatever, Red Shirt. I guess you never heard of anything called "shielding". SW-strength shielding, by the way, not ST-strength shielding.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-06-01 02:03pm

It was a last ditch suicide order for if the shield went down.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-06-01 02:06pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Yeah, whatever, Red Shirt. I guess you never heard of anything called "shielding". SW-strength shielding, by the way, not ST-strength shielding.

If you want to pick on the n00b, at least know what the fuck you're talking about. This reeks of "me too" bullshit.

The Death Star II's shield generators were not installed. Hence why the damn shield generator on Endor was there for?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-06-01 02:06pm

TurboPhaser wrote:The Emperor was planning to blow up Endor? Thats not very smart. Even if the DS did survive the explosion of a planet a few hundred km away, the DS would be in a massive cloud of dirt and debris and other bits of planet floating around.

Would have made things very messy.

Commander Jerjerrod ordered it after the DS2's destruction was imminent. At the very least Endor's destruction would take several Alliance heros and maybe some Rebel space craft with it.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-06-01 02:08pm

Assuming Endor is Earth Sized, that is 12000km in diameter.

In the scene in the briefing room we see Endor and the DS2 far away at first as computer models, using that I got:
Endor: 195px = 12000km = 1px = 61,5km

DS2 computer model diameter: 17px = 1046km

Using the other instance where we see the DS2 close up I extrapolated the size of the planet using photoshop and got this:
planet: 1638px = 12000km = 1px = 7,32km

Ds2 computer model diameter: 183px = ~1400km

Edit:
Oh and in a third shot of the computer model I get 753km

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-06-01 02:11pm

Eh, I think Saxton's work is comprehensive enough.

I'll take the ~900 km diameter.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-06-01 02:19pm

Christ, this isnt' working out. I'm trying to dataplot Vrx vs Prx to get PD to get values for the output of an ISD and more importantly the Hoth Shield, but It's ending up all fucked up here. Apparently Saxton used log-log as a mathmatical model instead of so that the values would be low enough to graph.

TurboPhaser · Post by **TurboPhaser** » 2003-06-01 02:25pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
TurboPhaser wrote:The Emperor was planning to blow up Endor? Thats not very smart. Even if the DS did survive the explosion of a planet a few hundred km away, the DS would be in a massive cloud of dirt and debris and other bits of planet floating around.

Would have made things very messy.
Commander Jerjerrod ordered it after the DS2's destruction was imminent. At the very least Endor's destruction would take several Alliance heros and maybe some Rebel space craft with it.

Ah, fair enough. I didnt know that, because I havent read the novel yet.

Yeah, well a planet exploding on a Rebel Fleet would have a significant effect.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-06-01 02:51pm

Ender wrote:Christ, this isnt' working out. I'm trying to dataplot Vrx vs Prx to get PD to get values for the output of an ISD and more importantly the Hoth Shield, but It's ending up all fucked up here. Apparently Saxton used log-log as a mathmatical model instead of so that the values would be low enough to graph.

Durrrrr........ What?

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