Overpopulation solutions

[SPOOFE]

Actually, IIRC, the world's population is supposed (according to my biology and environmental science lecturers) to hit 12 billion by 2100, or somewhere around there.

One UN study had the population hitting a mid-range maximum of around 9 billion at around 2050, and then falling. It also estimate that a century or two later, it'll stabilize around 3.2 billion.

Take it with a grain of salt, however. The best way to slow down overpopulation is to increase the economic status of 3rd-world countries, as 1st-world countries tend to have almost no population growth.

[InnerBrat]

I have to agree with SirN.
We should move out. Any other 'solution' contravenes basic human rights.


As for limiting child allowances to one per couple - ther'es now a crissi in China because the working population cannot support the retired population.
The real problem is not birth rate, it is reduced death rate and extended post- reproductive lifespans.
The most effective solution is to kill off all retired people, as they are no longer useful. (see what I mean about human rights?)
OR, improve medicine that delays the onset of old age, and extend the retirement age.

[kojikun]

make everyone capable of working until they die, eh brat? i go for that, especially if it means staying young forever

[RedImperator]

OR, improve medicine that delays the onset of old age, and extend the retirement age.

This is what's going to have to happen in the West. If I had to venture a guess, I would say I probably won't see retirement until I'm in my mid-seventies at the earliest. Of course, if I'm in the physical shape my grandparents were in when they were in their early sixties, then that won't matter.

[InnerBrat]

OR, improve medicine that delays the onset of old age, and extend the retirement age.

This is what's going to have to happen in the West. If I had to venture a guess, I would say I probably won't see retirement until I'm in my mid-seventies at the earliest. Of course, if I'm in the physical shape my grandparents were in when they were in their early sixties, then that won't matter.

Well, if the pension situation is anything like it is here, then you won't be able to afford to retire until you're in your mid seventies.

[RedImperator]

OR, improve medicine that delays the onset of old age, and extend the retirement age.

This is what's going to have to happen in the West. If I had to venture a guess, I would say I probably won't see retirement until I'm in my mid-seventies at the earliest. Of course, if I'm in the physical shape my grandparents were in when they were in their early sixties, then that won't matter.

Well, if the pension situation is anything like it is here, then you won't be able to afford to retire until you're in your mid seventies.

National pension or the pension from my job? Social Security will be in crisis around 2030, because my generation isn't big enough to support my parents' generation. It's too early to tell what it's going to be like when my generation reaches retirement age, because we're just starting to have kids (though IIRC, the early numbers look like there might be a mini-baby boom in progress). As a teacher, I'll be entitled to a pension that will keep me in gourmet cat food for the rest of my life. This is why I'm taking the thousand dollars I got for a graduation present and buying into a nice, conservative mutual fund and will put money into it for as long as I'm working.

[InnerBrat]

National pension or the pension from my job? Social Security will be in crisis around 2030, because my generation isn't big enough to support my parents' generation. It's too early to tell what it's going to be like when my generation reaches retirement age, because we're just starting to have kids (though IIRC, the early numbers look like there might be a mini-baby boom in progress). As a teacher, I'll be entitled to a pension that will keep me in gourmet cat food for the rest of my life. This is why I'm taking the thousand dollars I got for a graduation present and buying into a nice, conservative mutual fund and will put money into it for as long as I'm working.

Wel, both. The problem here has been the delcine of job security, so fewer jobs have a pension plan. Not enough 20 somethigns are putting money aside, so a massive pension crisis is being foretold, which the state pensions just won't cover.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The easiest way to fix the problem would just be to more efficiently exploit the resources we have. There are a lot of inefficient farming techniques still being used, and even more land which is ridiculously being locked up in protected forests or the like. Things like the Chinese megaprojects to bring water from the south into the north through a series of canals--that's going to deal with overpopulation and keep the world fed until the population growth naturally and inevitably stabilizes, as all demographic trends indicate it will sooner or later, merely disagreeing on exactly when.

We need the very best of farming techniques, and we need them everywhere. For that, we need governments ruling the sectors of the planet capable of production that could can implement them. Those governments in turn also need to be capable of supporting the megaprojects which can provide the supporting infrastructure for agriculture on such a scale. This isn't so much about funding as motivation--It could easily be done with forced labour battalions in most cases. You simply need governments willing to spend the capital on improvement rather than corruption and the wealth of the leadership, which is rare.

Ultimately, Nasser will be remembered for the High Dam, not for his failed wars with Israel or for his brief attempt at union with Syria. How many fools are there out there who neglect such a great effort which might be done in their name? God, look at Brazil. With the right planning you could dam the Amazon at multiple points and make almost all of that country into productive cropland.

The simple fact is that we could easily support twelve billion people on this planet if the entire planet had agriculture as efficient as that of the USA, Canada, and Israel, for example. And it could, if there was a genuine effort to develop the infrastructure to support it, and the use of modern agricultural products was accepted on a wide scale.

[Lord of the Farce]

Take the nukes off the BUFFs and load them with condoms. Then launch sortie after sortie over third world nations.

This new bombing operation will be called "Operation Rubber Drop"

*Shock*! *Horror*! You would have us using Weapons of Mass Birth Control!

[Rye]

We should irrigate the desert, no important life there, turn it into a big farmland.

Then we can work on making the third world less crap, and making them have less babies, then there sh0ould be ample resources for everyone, ando only greed, terrorism and STDs to worry about.

[Wicked Pilot]

*Shock*! *Horror*! You would have us using Weapons of Mass Birth Control!

Yeah, we can drop them over undesirable populations like the Middle East and Alabama.

[TrailerParkJawa]

We should irrigate the desert, no important life there, turn it into a big farmland.

Then we can work on making the third world less crap, and making them have less babies, then there sh0ould be ample resources for everyone, ando only greed, terrorism and STDs to worry about.

We already irrigate deserts all over the place. Most California agriculture takes place in very arid areas. There is not enough water to go around anymore. This is true for all the western states. Irrigating large sections of true desert is a pipe dream. Getting a dam project approved these days is nearly impossible.

[kojikun]

irrigate the Sahara and the Outback, yeah

[Enforcer Talen]

Lets say, in the near future, the population of Earth rises to 10 billion(it could happen), or this could apply to today with apopulation of 6+ billion. The UN forms a commitee to solve this problem(if their too weak for ya, say the nations make a treaty or INTERPOL does or NATO, or maybe something made up). What solutions are there? Please say something other than mass warfare or unleashing a plague(if you can't think of anything, go ahead and use these)

What are ya'll's solutions?

space tech suddenly becomes a priority.

[Robert Treder]

We should irrigate the desert, no important life there, turn it into a big farmland.

Then we can work on making the third world less crap, and making them have less babies, then there sh0ould be ample resources for everyone, ando only greed, terrorism and STDs to worry about.

We already irrigate deserts all over the place. Most California agriculture takes place in very arid areas. There is not enough water to go around anymore. This is true for all the western states. Irrigating large sections of true desert is a pipe dream. Getting a dam project approved these days is nearly impossible.

Still, the deserts strike me as a hell of a lot more hospitable than outerspace. The Sahara, the Gobi, Siberia, Antarctica, the Brazilian rainforests, all are already more habitable than space is. Which means they should be given at least some consideration, right?

[kojikun]

Treder, you must also consider resources. Even if farming space isnt an issue, materials will be. Within the next 100 years we WILL need to start moving truly into space.

[Robert Treder]

Treder, you must also consider resources. Even if farming space isnt an issue, materials will be. Within the next 100 years we WILL need to start moving truly into space.

Why not both? Space for the rich, the rain forests for the poor.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Getting a dam project approved these days is nearly impossible.

We need to fix that.

[InnerBrat]

Now, of course, we're talking about destruction of vast amounts of land and ecologies. Bearing in mind how important biome like the rainforest are for things like drug research, it would be a lot easier and free up a lot of land to enforce vegan diets. You can feed millions more humans by moving down a trophis level or two.

[Robert Treder]

Now, of course, we're talking about destruction of vast amounts of land and ecologies. Bearing in mind how important biome like the rainforest are for things like drug research, it would be a lot easier and free up a lot of land to enforce vegan diets. You can feed millions more humans by moving down a trophis level or two.

Enforced vegetarianism? What about health, and, more importantly, satisfaction? And anyways, if the world switched to vegetarianism, the cattle population would suffer. We don't want to do that to our bovine friends.
Howabout we just kill all the vegetarians in the world to free up some living space?

[Joe]

These days, the best way to keep an animal from going to extinct is to find some people who want to kill it, eat it, or own it (legally, of course).

[InnerBrat]

1) What about health? It is perfectly possible to live healthily on a vegetarian diet if one is sensible. All essential aas can be obtained from non-animal sources.

2) Wait a sec - it's OK to eliminate all desert and rainforest dwelling species of plant and animal but the domestic cow must live? Why? it's the biggest contributer to greenhouse gases this side of DMS producing coccolithophores.

[Joe]

1) What about health? It is perfectly possible to live healthily on a vegetarian diet if one is sensible. All essential aas can be obtained from non-animal sources.

But that doesn't taste as good.

2) Wait a sec - it's OK to eliminate all desert and rainforest dwelling species of plant and animal but the domestic cow must live? Why? it's the biggest contributer to greenhouse gases this side of DMS producing coccolithophores.

The domestic cow probably does more for man than all of those plants and animals combined.

[InnerBrat]

1) What about health? It is perfectly possible to live healthily on a vegetarian diet if one is sensible. All essential aas can be obtained from non-animal sources.

But that doesn't taste as good.

That's a matter of opinion. And vast tracts of grazing land doesn't look as good (or last as long) as natural forests and desert.

2) Wait a sec - it's OK to eliminate all desert and rainforest dwelling species of plant and animal but the domestic cow must live? Why? it's the biggest contributer to greenhouse gases this side of DMS producing coccolithophores.

The domestic cow probably does more for man than all of those plants and animals combined.

Because you can eat some of them and wear others? You can eat practically anything - and for a much more economical use of land. You can wear cotton (well, you can't if the cotton fields have been turned into grasslands); silk (ditto for marlberry [sp] fields) and any number of man made materials. you can drink goats and sheeps milk (much hardier animals - will survive in any number of natural environments) hell, you can drink milk from any mammal.
What was the last drug you took that had been refined from a cow?

[Joe]

About the drugs we get from animals/plants other than cows: point taken.

As for using animals other than cows for milk...well, there's a reason that just about every major milk-producer in the world uses cows rather than one of those for their production; because cows can generate milk more cheaply (goat milk, if I'm not mistaken, is considerably more expensive than cow milk) and efficiently than their counterparts. It sounds like an appeal to popularity, but were there animals more efficient at things that we have cows doing today, we would have discovered how to harnass them to these purposes years ago.

Besides, as long as you're not advocating force in any of these matters, I don't have a problem with any of what you're saying.