Who wins in this battle?

[Darth Wong]

I don't see how this is a cake-walk. The lone ISD is an extremely well shielded target, but it is arguable that Torps have the wattage to affect the shields.

Then why can't fighters, which are capable of packing megaton-range fusion weapons (or larger; see AOTC) take down ISDs without huge numbers or capship support?

Then it is simply how many torps hit. Certainly few are gonna miss such a target at that range--if nothing else they can lock onto the explosions from previous torpedoes--and 500 federation vessels is a lot of torpedoes. Can they destroy the ISD? Maybie, but it would hardly be a "win." Can they damage the ISD? Likely. Will they lose? Likely.

SW starfighters can carry weapons more powerful than an entire GCS's photon torpedo loadout (see "Pegasus"), and they still can't knock down an ISD shield without either huge numbers or capship assistance.

I would expect an average of several torps per ship, simply because there are so many of them that some will survive for guite a while (while some don't even get to fire). Later designs have shown a love for launchers, many launchers, and the Defiants, Sovereigns, Akiras, and to a lesser degree, Galaxies are all torpedo heavy. The multitudes of smaller classes probably have several torps as well, even shuttles and fighters carry smaller torpedoes.

Since a single seismic charge from Jango Fett's Slave-1 carries a bigger punch than the 250 torpedoes of a GCS, I have considerable difficulty believing that these ships will be able to scratch the paint on an ISD.

After the war and Borg, if earth lacks some kind of defense system it is a sign of utmost stupidity (Ok, this is the federation, but still ).

The Breen were able to bombard Starfleet HQ on Earth without being intercepted en route. Whatever defenses the Feddies have, it certainly isn't enough.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

A few words on ISD accuracy:

Before the Storm

pg.279: An antifighter turbolaser battery on the cruiser tracked the interceptor and blew it into a thousand pieces, which returned to the surface as a rain of metal.

Anti-fighter turbolaser tracking and destroying a fast moving, highly maneuverable interceptor.

---------------------------------------
The Bacta War

pg. 242: An Imperial Star Destroyer Mark ll, like the Avarice, had little to fear from a squadron of snubfighters. He acknowledged that their use of proton torpedoes could, in fact, hurt his ship, but his own pilots were very good and his turbolaser crews repeatedly drilled in antiship and antitorpedo fire missions.

ISD turbolasers can destroy torpedoes.
---------------------------------------------------

The Courtship of Princess Leia

pg. 311: Proximity indicators screamed a warning, and Han looked up, saw the slate of gray V's of twin Star Destroyers converging ahead of them. Luke swerved to starboards, and a barage of missles ripped from the destroyers, puncturing teh carrier's weakened shields.

Star Destroyers carry missiles. Imagine a hundred to thousand GT cap-ship missile exploding in the middle of a Federation ship formation.

ISD takes it easy, folks.

PS. First two passages courtesy of Wayne Poe's database of quotes.

[The Silence and I]

I find that hard to swallow. Not because it shouldn't be possible, but because it was never done--even when it would be a really good idea to do so (Hoth). Perhaps vessels were upgraded later?

Where did you see a multi starfighter engagement against an ISD at Hoth?

I was refering to the asteroids that got through at Hoth. If they had that kind of fire volume, then why not blast every asteroid in sight while their shields were down for Holonet transmitting? Instead the RoF did not increase by spectacular amounts (if at all) and a large asteroid struck, and arguably damaged the bridge of one of the ISD's. Others were taking damage too, the line is something like this: "Considering the amount of damage we've sustained, they must have been destroyed." A good time indeed to use that volume of fire, but they didn't. So I say again, perhaps there were upgrades later?

[The Silence and I]

Darth Wong wrote:

The Silence and I wrote:
I don't see how this is a cake-walk. The lone ISD is an extremely well shielded target, but it is arguable that Torps have the wattage to affect the shields.

Then why can't fighters, which are capable of packing megaton-range fusion weapons (or larger; see AOTC) take down ISDs without huge numbers or capship support?

I kinda had the impression 500 ships are a lot. I would pit 500 X-Wings against a ISD--their torps are more powerful, sure, but they have fewer of them.

SW starfighters can carry weapons more powerful than an entire GCS's photon torpedo loadout (see "Pegasus"), and they still can't knock down an ISD shield without either huge numbers or capship assistance.

But very few of them, and A) Riker is an idiot, even by ST standards, B) it depends on what you use to do your calcs. I'm being automatically generous with ST, because if low end is used, there is no debate. Also, the Dominion war started considerable advances in Federation weapons output, as well as new weapons in general. For example, Mark 6 photons are supposed to be more powerful than Mark I QT, and the Mark II QT is even more powerful. The E-D used Mark 4-5 I think, (ask Alyeska or Darkling, they probably know) far less powerful than the fleet has now.

The Breen were able to bombard Starfleet HQ on Earth without being intercepted en route. Whatever defenses the Feddies have, it certainly isn't enough.

Good point.

[Captain Cyran]

A few words on ISD accuracy:

Before the Storm

pg.279: An antifighter turbolaser battery on the cruiser tracked the interceptor and blew it into a thousand pieces, which returned to the surface as a rain of metal.

Anti-fighter turbolaser tracking and destroying a fast moving, highly maneuverable interceptor.

---------------------------------------
The Bacta War

pg. 242: An Imperial Star Destroyer Mark ll, like the Avarice, had little to fear from a squadron of snubfighters. He acknowledged that their use of proton torpedoes could, in fact, hurt his ship, but his own pilots were very good and his turbolaser crews repeatedly drilled in antiship and antitorpedo fire missions.

ISD turbolasers can destroy torpedoes.
---------------------------------------------------

The Courtship of Princess Leia

pg. 311: Proximity indicators screamed a warning, and Han looked up, saw the slate of gray V's of twin Star Destroyers converging ahead of them. Luke swerved to starboards, and a barage of missles ripped from the destroyers, puncturing teh carrier's weakened shields.

Star Destroyers carry missiles. Imagine a hundred to thousand GT cap-ship missile exploding in the middle of a Federation ship formation.

ISD takes it easy, folks.

PS. First two passages courtesy of Wayne Poe's database of quotes.

But aren't the movies the ultimate cannon? The movies show crappy accuracy from both laser cannons and Turbolasers.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I kinda had the impression 500 ships are a lot. I would pit 500 X-Wings against a ISD--their torps are more powerful, sure, but they have fewer of them.

You'd also pit 500 X-Wings against them because they are SMALL and between their ECM and defensive maneuvering, would be able to dodge most of the defense without suffering critical casualties.

It would seem that the fighters would close to point-blank range, probably so that the ISD's antimissile defenses won't just shoot most of them down and also just to get a lock on.

Unfortunately, Federation ships are BIG.

But very few of them, and A) Riker is an idiot, even by ST standards, B) it depends on what you use to do your calcs. I'm being automatically generous with ST, because if low end is used, there is no debate. Also, the Dominion war started considerable advances in Federation weapons output, as well as new weapons in general. For example, Mark 6 photons are supposed to be more powerful than Mark I QT, and the Mark II QT is even more powerful. The E-D used Mark 4-5 I think, (ask Alyeska or Darkling, they probably know) far less powerful than the fleet has now.

Well, I think they mentioned Voyager's photorps were 25 "isotons" in one of 'em Voyager episodes. If we assume they are Mk IV, and that they are the ones used at Pegasus...

Then the Borg says the MK VI is 200 isotons. So if we don't do the isoton = 1 ton of TNT play, Mk VI torpedoes are about 8 times as powerful according to the dialogue.

[Lord Poe]

I was refering to the asteroids that got through at Hoth. If they had that kind of fire volume, then why not blast every asteroid in sight while their shields were down for Holonet transmitting?

As you saw in one scene, they weren't there to clear an asteroid field. This is the same strawman used in the ROTJ Endor scenes on why the entire forest wasn't stripped of vegetation by the AT-ST blasters.

They were in the asteroid field for quite a while. The TLs could have been recharging when that asteroid hit. The targeting computers may have been hampered by the field itself, as the communications were.

[YT300000]

But aren't the movies the ultimate cannon? The movies show crappy accuracy from both laser cannons and Turbolasers.

The movies also show that the Death Star had jammers so powerful that they warped the space-time continuum. (Which is why the X-wings were so sluggish. There is a direct quote in the ANH novelization.

[Solauren]

hehehe, gotta love this debate, so here goes something.

Did the Romulans warn Starfleet what was coming? If so, Starfleet has time to prepare a defense (i.e Everyship within range, get here now!!!!!)

You know some idiot in a Defiant class is going to try attacking the ISD before the rest of the fleet, and that will warn them about range.

If the Federation was smart, of they had someone with a brain in charge of the fleet (i.e Pichard seems to be pretty smart at times) they hide the fleet somehow. If not, well, they are the "honor escort".

When they get into range, EVERY ship would have to use the "Deflector Weapon" from Best of Both worlds, while firing as many torpedoes as they good, aiming for weapon emplacements, and if the knobs at the top of the ISD are shield generators, at them. They'd also have to come from the "top" of the ISD to avoid most of the broadside weapons, as well as coming from behind and hitting the engines, were there are few weapons.

Also, tossing a few hundred 40 meter asteroids towed in a tractor beam would be a good idea, so the star destroyer spends a few seconds shotting them down.

Provided the site of that doesn't make starfleet surrender and they all hit with every warhead they can launch while Peregrines are tossing asteroids at them, and with all there "deflector weapons", they MIGHT have a chance of destroying the ISD.


Here is how the battle would have to progress
1- They find out the ISD is coming via the Romulans.
2- The fleet assembles at least 2 days before the ISD gets there.
3- They spend those two days scooping up asteroids into there shuttle bays and holding them with tractor beams.
4- Before the ISD gets into firing range, they start tossing asteroids at it at high speed, making the asteroids the more dangerous target. (I think a 40 meter asteroid going at high impulse speeds would be a bigger threat then a ship with Federation weapons and shields. After all, asteroids that big can level large areas on continents on impact)
5- While the Star Destroyer gunners are busy shooting down the space rocks, all the Akira class in the fleet open fire with all there warhead launchers, firing everything they have, as do the other ships. Also, they have to fire all there other weapons, unless firing them prevents the use of the Deflector Weapon
6- As the number of Rocks drops, they power there Deflector Weapons
7- They fire there deflector weapons, and keep firing until there ship is blown up by the ISd or there warp core is about to breech, whilie maintaing torpedoe fire. Possibly with Peregrins towing Asteroids and tossing them still, possibly with ramming going on.

This MIGHT let the Federation fleet win. Someone would have to crunch numbers to know for sure.

<i>Also, there is another question to wonder: We have seen the odd transporter design that can get through shields. Would they work against a ISD shield? If so, would the Federation use them the way some Trekkies do, and beam explosives over to the ISD?</i>

I'm going to say know, and give the Federation fleet a 50:50 chance if they do what I said, and have luck on there side.

I think I'll figure this out using the high end figures on DITL.ORG to see if they have a chance....

[Tribun]

Since a Federation fleet of hunderts of ships fought against a Borg cube in ST:FC, with olny a few of them surviving (after helf from Picard), I would say, that against a Star Destroyer, which its much, much more stronger shields, they would not stand a chance.

I could see the scene on the bridge:
Captain "Commander, what is going on?! I'm busy!"
Commander "Sir, a fleet of starships opend fire on us."
Captain "Is the ship in danger?"
Commander "The hurled asteroids in our way and now try to break our shield."
Captain "Damage?"
Commander "None. Personally, I don't know what they want to archive with that stunt here. Thier weapons won't even make our shield generator break out in sweat."
Captain "Shoo them all down, I hate it to be late. A tell the gunners only to use the light turbo lasers, anything more would be wast of tibanna gas!"
Commander "Yes, sir!"

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

500 ships? HA! Even assuming they have each twice the photon torpedo loads of a GCS, that's only 250k torpedoes. With 100 megaton torpedoes that's 25 teratons. In other words, not enough to defeat 2 Acclamators. Never mind the shields of shields of an ISD.


And using Pegasus yields, it take 2 billion torpedoes!

[TurboPhaser]

A few probs with that Solauren:

1. The Deflector weapon drained the ships power, so if the Fed Fleet used that, they would not be able to use their standard weapons.

2. The deflector weapon burned out the Main deflector, so its a one shot weapon. But, as demonstarted, It can be fired for a reasonable amount of time.

3. I've looked over DITL.org, and if we use those figures, we are looking at a 4 million TeraWatt output for Galaxy class. Obviously not every ship would be able to put out this much energy and of course not all that energy goes into the weapon. So, i'm using educated guesses, but I'd estimate that perhaps (using DITL figures) that 2 million TW went into the Deflector of the Enterprise. Thats very rough, but judging by the condition of the E-D afterwards, this seems reasonable.

4. Once any of the fleet ships use the Deflector weapon, their ships will be powerless and pretty much outta the fight unless they want to ram the ISD. But impulse may also have been one of the powered down systems..

5. The smaller ships in the fleet may only be able to put a few hundred thousand TW into their beams.

6. While I have little doubt that that many beams of between one hundred thousand and 2 million TW would totally screw the ISD, it showed that modifying the Deflector takes a bit of time. The Fed Fleet may not be able to get 500 deflectors ready in time.

7. Asteroids in cargo bays.......they couldnt fit many into their bays, at least not any that would be big enough to be worth shooting down by the ISD. A rock, no matter the size would have NO effect on ISD shields.

Though the ISD probably would shoot down asteroids that are big enough. They may get in the way of their targeting systems.

[SirNitram]

A few probs with that Solauren:

1. The Deflector weapon drained the ships power, so if the Fed Fleet used that, they would not be able to use their standard weapons.

2. The deflector weapon burned out the Main deflector, so its a one shot weapon. But, as demonstarted, It can be fired for a reasonable amount of time.

So far so good.

3. I've looked over DITL.org, and if we use those figures, we are looking at a 4 million TeraWatt output for Galaxy class. Obviously not every ship would be able to put out this much energy and of course not all that energy goes into the weapon. So, i'm using educated guesses, but I'd estimate that perhaps (using DITL figures) that 2 million TW went into the Deflector of the Enterprise. Thats very rough, but judging by the condition of the E-D afterwards, this seems reasonable.

First and foremost, don't expect anyone here to take DITL's figures at face value. The creator was a horrifically stupid and stubborn debator in the VS community many years ago, and it never really went away.

4. Once any of the fleet ships use the Deflector weapon, their ships will be powerless and pretty much outta the fight unless they want to ram the ISD. But impulse may also have been one of the powered down systems..

5. The smaller ships in the fleet may only be able to put a few hundred thousand TW into their beams.

6. While I have little doubt that that many beams of between one hundred thousand and 2 million TW would totally screw the ISD, it showed that modifying the Deflector takes a bit of time. The Fed Fleet may not be able to get 500 deflectors ready in time.

Instead of assuming that much power will 'totally screw' the ISD, let's crunch numbers.

2 million TW is about 400MT.

The stated shield peak of an old Acclamator Transport, used in the Clone Wars, is 16TT/sec.

In case anyone doesn't know, it goes Mega-, Giga-, Tera-. So, the shield of an old transport whose design would be improved into the ISD, could withstand a few tens of thousands of these weapons fired simultaneously without losing her shields. Then there's the whole problem of the armour underneath..

7. Asteroids in cargo bays.......they couldnt fit many into their bays, at least not any that would be big enough to be worth shooting down by the ISD. A rock, no matter the size would have NO effect on ISD shields.

Though the ISD probably would shoot down asteroids that are big enough. They may get in the way of their targeting systems.

[TurboPhaser]

A few probs with that Solauren:

1. The Deflector weapon drained the ships power, so if the Fed Fleet used that, they would not be able to use their standard weapons.

2. The deflector weapon burned out the Main deflector, so its a one shot weapon. But, as demonstarted, It can be fired for a reasonable amount of time.

So far so good.

3. I've looked over DITL.org, and if we use those figures, we are looking at a 4 million TeraWatt output for Galaxy class. Obviously not every ship would be able to put out this much energy and of course not all that energy goes into the weapon. So, i'm using educated guesses, but I'd estimate that perhaps (using DITL figures) that 2 million TW went into the Deflector of the Enterprise. Thats very rough, but judging by the condition of the E-D afterwards, this seems reasonable.

First and foremost, don't expect anyone here to take DITL's figures at face value. The creator was a horrifically stupid and stubborn debator in the VS community many years ago, and it never really went away.

4. Once any of the fleet ships use the Deflector weapon, their ships will be powerless and pretty much outta the fight unless they want to ram the ISD. But impulse may also have been one of the powered down systems..

5. The smaller ships in the fleet may only be able to put a few hundred thousand TW into their beams.

6. While I have little doubt that that many beams of between one hundred thousand and 2 million TW would totally screw the ISD, it showed that modifying the Deflector takes a bit of time. The Fed Fleet may not be able to get 500 deflectors ready in time.

Instead of assuming that much power will 'totally screw' the ISD, let's crunch numbers.

2 million TW is about 400MT.

The stated shield peak of an old Acclamator Transport, used in the Clone Wars, is 16TT/sec.

In case anyone doesn't know, it goes Mega-, Giga-, Tera-. So, the shield of an old transport whose design would be improved into the ISD, could withstand a few tens of thousands of these weapons fired simultaneously without losing her shields. Then there's the whole problem of the armour underneath..

7. Asteroids in cargo bays.......they couldnt fit many into their bays, at least not any that would be big enough to be worth shooting down by the ISD. A rock, no matter the size would have NO effect on ISD shields.

Though the ISD probably would shoot down asteroids that are big enough. They may get in the way of their targeting systems.

1. I am skeptical about DITL's figures too, but I used them because I was replying to someone who was also using them.

2. I apparently need to work on my maths. Of course, I assume that the Acclamator figures are canon? Was it the Tech Manual? I don't recall.

[SirNitram]

1. I am skeptical about DITL's figures too, but I used them because I was replying to someone who was also using them.

Fair enough. The debate has reached the point where it barely matters.

2. I apparently need to work on my maths. Of course, I assume that the Acclamator figures are canon? Was it the Tech Manual? I don't recall.

It's from the Incredible Cross Sections book, done for Episode II. They were originally assumed to be Official in the canon policy of Lucasfilm, but Alyeska found a quote recently that showed them to be Canon. Do some searching in this Forum for threads he started, it shouldn't be far.

[TurboPhaser]

Fair enough. The debate has reached the point where it barely matters.

It's from the Incredible Cross Sections book, done for Episode II. They were originally assumed to be Official in the canon policy of Lucasfilm, but Alyeska found a quote recently that showed them to be Canon. Do some searching in this Forum for threads he started, it shouldn't be far.

Thanks. Doesnt 'Official' and 'Canon' amount to the same thing? If a publication is declared official by Mr. Lucas and it had tech figures in it, wouldnt it be included in canon Wars?

Anyway, my idea on this battle is a difficult victory for the Feds or at the very least a tough victory for the Imps.

Even if the Feds did win, its a pretty good loss for the Empire.

Insignificant officer: Sir, our battle with the Federation has been lost!
Captain: Damn! How many ships did our SD destroy before she was overwhelmed?
Insignificant: About 450 sir.
Captain: Really? Excellent! Get the fleet ready to depart at once![/quote]

[SirNitram]

Fair enough. The debate has reached the point where it barely matters.

It's from the Incredible Cross Sections book, done for Episode II. They were originally assumed to be Official in the canon policy of Lucasfilm, but Alyeska found a quote recently that showed them to be Canon. Do some searching in this Forum for threads he started, it shouldn't be far.

Thanks. Doesnt 'Official' and 'Canon' amount to the same thing? If a publication is declared official by Mr. Lucas and it had tech figures in it, wouldnt it be included in canon Wars?

The difference is small, but in these arguments, enough to cause week-long arguments. If something is 'Official', it is effectively Canon.. As long as it isn't contradicted. If it's Canon, it simply Is. That's slightly simplified, but it's enough to keep you going.

Anyway, my idea on this battle is a difficult victory for the Feds or at the very least a tough victory for the Imps.

Even if the Feds did win, its a pretty good loss for the Empire.

If this is for a fanfic or something, it sounds like a great and innovative idea for them to try. I'm just approaching it standard VS debate style.

Insignificant officer: Sir, our battle with the Federation has been lost!
Captain: Damn! How many ships did our SD destroy before she was overwhelmed?
Insignificant: About 450 sir.
Captain: Really? Excellent! Get the fleet ready to depart at once!

I'm not so sure. If a battle ended with only 450 casualities to the Federation for an ISD, it'd be a horrible trade off for the Empire. Sure, they can keep on chugging, but power/cost wise, the Empire got owned there.

[Phyre]

By the way, in one of the star wars books, in the post-empire age, Luke crashed an ISD into a planet, and using the shields right before crashing, kept the ship from receiving too much damage. If and ISD can go head to head with a planet, and still be working, I don't think a few torps will do much.

[TurboPhaser]

The difference is small, but in these arguments, enough to cause week-long arguments. If something is 'Official', it is effectively Canon.. As long as it isn't contradicted. If it's Canon, it simply Is. That's slightly simplified, but it's enough to keep you going.

Ah, ok.

If this is for a fanfic or something, it sounds like a great and innovative idea for them to try. I'm just approaching it standard VS debate style.

Uh, what? I was just stating what i think is battle outcome. I'm doing a Vs debate thing too.

I'm not so sure. If a battle ended with only 450 casualities to the Federation for an ISD, it'd be a horrible trade off for the Empire. Sure, they can keep on chugging, but power/cost wise, the Empire got owned there.

Well, the Empire has loads of star systems under their control. Surely the creation of a single 1.6 km waeship is well within their capabilities.

In B5 Earthforce can make a ton of 1 km ships and they only have maybe 10 or so star systems under their control.

[Solauren]

Dear God, i just ran the numbers I wanted to using DITL.ORG's numbers, and here were my results.....

First, I had to figure out a shield number for an ISD. I used the Accalamator's Shields and Length, figured out meter:gigawatt ratio, and applied that to an ISD's length. This gives an ISD 149 Trillion GW shields.
(I rounded up from 148.9 Trillion GW)

Then I go to DITL, and get the ship info I need from them. Basically ship name, what they think the number of ships are, and shield power. Here's a mini table.



Class Num Shields in Terrajoules (see below for watt conversions)
Sovereign Class 10 4590000
Galaxy Class 30 2700000
Akira Class 100 1876500
Ambassador 40 2025000
Constellation Class 5 418500
Defiant Class 24 2376000
Excelsior 200 1201500
Freedom Class 10 1039500
Interpid 35 729000
Nebula Class 25 2565000
New Orleans 10 958500
Prometheus (MV) 1 3915000
Trident Class 5 742500
Raider Class (Peregrine) 150 229500

For a grand shield total of 812 Billion Gigajoules (which is below the limit of the ISD by quite a bit, like 99% less)

Assuming all the Federation ships hit with there deflector beams (for this arguement, we assume they can still fire torpedoes so they don't think it's suicide, or they think they will blow the Star Detroyer up so it's worth crippling the fleet for a few days for repairs)..


Shields on the ISD: 149,000,000,000,000 pre hit
Shields on the ISD, POST Hit

Assume 1 GJ = 1 GW
(i.e 1 GW per second) 148187786000000 GW

On the Bridge of the ISD:
Bridge Officer: Sir, reading 500 hits, equal to 62 seconds worth of Turbolaser fire. Shields at 99.45%. The enemy ships have lost power. They appear to be firing low yield warheads in the 100 megaton upper ange.
ISD Captain: They must have been in drydock refueling or something.
Either that, or these are ships used in some bizarre alien "21 gun salute" welcoming ceromony. It would explain the weak weapons. Oh well, Just ignore them.

Assume 1 GJ = 15 GW (i.e 15 GW per second, the same rate a Turbolaser cannon): 136816790000000 GW

Bridge Officer: Sir, Reading 500 hits, Shields at 91%. The enemy ships have lost power. They are firing low yield warheads, no threat to the shields
ISD Captain: That was a little Impressive. Disable the ships with Ion cannon fire. We might want to look over those weapons, they seem to be a bit better then Turbolasers. Ignore the warheads if they are not a threat, they just might be escape pods or something.

Assume 1 GJ = 150 GW (i.e 150 GW per second, 10 times that of a Turbolaser): 27167900000000 GW

Bridge Officer: Sir, Shields at 18%, but the enemy fleet has lost shields and primary power. They are however firing low yield warheads at us.
ISD Captain: Impressive. Disable them with Ion Cannon fire, we will want to look over there weapon systems later. As for the Warheads, just shot them down. Why would they bother with such low yield warheads anyway..

I think you would need ALL OF STARFLEET (assuming they have at least 5000 ships) and possible the Klingons, doing the deflector dish trick to stop an ISD.

I hope everyone joyed my Imperial Officer comments.

[SirNitram]

If this is for a fanfic or something, it sounds like a great and innovative idea for them to try. I'm just approaching it standard VS debate style.

Uh, what? I was just stating what i think is battle outcome. I'm doing a Vs debate thing too.

Check the math. It'd take alot more than 450 vessels to output enough juice to drop the ISD's shields.

[TurboPhaser]

I hope everyone joyed my Imperial Officer comments.

Very nice.

Check the math. It'd take alot more than 450 vessels to output enough juice to drop the ISD's shields.

Ah, i see. Perhaps, perhaps not. There have been at least 2 interpretations of math on this thread.

At the very, very least the Fed attack would make the ISD Captain raise an eyebrow. Whether in surpise or disgust I dunno. Or possibly both.

Gunner: Sir, there appears to a fleet of 500 ships attacking us.
Captain: Fascinating!
Gunner: Sir?
Captain: Those ships are very nice looking arent they?
Gunner: I suppose......
Captain: (pointing) Try to disable that one would you? I want it so I can use it as my luxury holiday cruiser!
Gunner: Uh, yes sir.

[Solauren]

Problem with that: Ion cannons might blow up a Starfleet ship (they are worse then Ion storms IIRC)

Worse problem: He disabled Voyager, and has to meet Captain Janeway

:terror:

[Tribun]

Worse problem: He disabled Voyager, and has to meet Captain Janeway

Code: Select all

That would be a real nightmare......

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

812 million terajoules? Congradulations, you have equal one turbolaser! Increase it two orders of magnitude and you can take down a Acclamator!