Thou Shalt Not Kill

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-06-01 09:46pm

Lonestar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Until you find out just how many forms of lawful killing exist in Mosaic Law, which was the whole point of my spoof post in the first place.
Yep, good thing Jesus gave us the new covenant in the New Testament, eh?

Tell me. How does the new testament make up for all the atrocities committed in the Old? How does the new gentler NT change the fact that the god described in the OT is a mass murderer?

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-06-01 10:42pm

innerbrat wrote:
Coyote wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:By the way, address the other examples I pointed out, such as killing a man for gathering wood on Sunday.
Saturday, actually, the "Sabbath Day" according to Jewish tradition...
Y'know that feeling you get that no one ever reads your posts?

Indeed, Indeed. Maybe I go too much into 'lecture mode'? Perhaps when it is time for me ot petition for a cutom title I should advocate being the 'spiritual advisor' or councilor, or ship's chaplain, or Caliph or some such....

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-06-01 10:43pm

RedImperator wrote: On the Gnostics: there was a sect of Christianity which thought that the Old Testament God was really the Devil. The Devil created the physical world, and the physical world was corrupt and evil. Jesus was the real God, and only the soul is important.

The Puritans also believed that man was totally evil so it seems like the concept or something similar has popped out its ugly head

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-01 10:46pm

innerbrat wrote:Y'know that feeling you get that no one ever reads your posts?

Yes. I have it quite often.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-06-01 10:47pm

And many Puritns were Calvinists, too, who belived that God had pre-determined the 'elect' and who was damned. You could be the most vile, cruel mean guy alive and if God selected you to be saved, well, that was that. And the nicest, kindest, most friendly guy-- if he's not one of God's 'elect', well, off to the depths of hell.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2003-06-01 11:14pm

RogueIce wrote:
innerbrat wrote:Y'know that feeling you get that no one ever reads your posts?
Yes. I have it quite often.

I get that feeling all the time. Hasn't stopped me in the slightest.

Setesh · Post by **Setesh** » 2003-06-02 05:05am

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
RogueIce wrote:
innerbrat wrote:Y'know that feeling you get that no one ever reads your posts?
Yes. I have it quite often.
I get that feeling all the time. Hasn't stopped me in the slightest.

I get people who don't understand my posts more often.

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2003-06-02 05:08am

Lonestar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Until you find out just how many forms of lawful killing exist in Mosaic Law, which was the whole point of my spoof post in the first place.
Yep, good thing Jesus gave us the new covenant in the New Testament, eh?

I know this is going back a bit, and I suppose it's repeating what Darth Servo said but in different words, but in any case, I have a question. Is this supposed to mean that, assuming of course that you're right and that the old law is now invalid (A point on which the bible contradicts itself), that it excuses the things done in the old testament which went against the laws while they still applied, such as the previously mentioned Soddom and Gomorrah.

Setesh · Post by **Setesh** » 2003-06-02 05:10am

didn't Jesus say something about the old laws still applying?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-06-02 05:17am

Setesh wrote:didn't Jesus say something about the old laws still applying?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17

This part you mean?

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-06-02 06:14am

Coyote wrote:
innerbrat wrote:
Coyote wrote: Saturday, actually, the "Sabbath Day" according to Jewish tradition...
Y'know that feeling you get that no one ever reads your posts?
Indeed, Indeed. Maybe I go too much into 'lecture mode'? Perhaps when it is time for me ot petition for a cutom title I should advocate being the 'spiritual advisor' or councilor, or ship's chaplain, or Caliph or some such....

I was talking about me, Coyote. You know that, right?

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2003-06-02 06:47am

working on Sunday (Exodus 31:15, Leviticus 23:27, Numbers 15:36),

I had to say this, but Jews may work sundays,so there is not need to that exeption, unless you use it from a chritian POV.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2003-06-02 06:49am

SPOOFE wrote:
The commandment is "Don't Murder".
In the original language, yes, that is a more appropriate meaning. However, Creationists and Biblical Literalists insist that the Bible is 100% accurate even in its English version, which is what I think Mike is aiming his article towards.

there are other inconsistencies between the Christian Old testament and the Jewish Bible, not only in the 10 commandments.

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2003-06-02 07:39am

neoolong wrote:
Setesh wrote:didn't Jesus say something about the old laws still applying?
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17

This part you mean?

The problem is that the bible contradicts itself on that point.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/otlaw.html

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-06-02 11:06am

UltraViolence83 wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Which makes me recall a congresswomen (or was it senator?) from Texas who, when asked of her stance on whether Texas schools should become bi-lingual (meaning the teachers teach in English and Spanish, for you dolts out there)... she held up a copy of the Bible and said "If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for the Texas Education System."
God, that's a painful quote to read.

Is it verifiable? I'm not a quick to defend fundie politicians, but this sounds like an urban legend to me.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-06-02 01:47pm

Ted C wrote:Is it verifiable? I'm not a quick to defend fundie politicians, but this sounds like an urban legend to me.

It's genuine. See this.

The New York Post, Thursday, May 23, 1996 wrote:There have only been two women governors in Texas history -- Ms. Richards and the late "Ma" Ferguson. The latter was known chiefly for what she said when she issued her edict against teaching Spanish in the school system:

"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for the children of Texas!"

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2003-06-02 02:24pm

Darth Servo wrote:Tell me. How does the new testament make up for all the atrocities committed in the Old? How does the new gentler NT change the fact that the god described in the OT is a mass murderer?

I'm sorry, did I say it did? Most prople would take me "razz" smiley as an indication I wasn't being too serious.

And we talk about the OT and NT God later on in the thread.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-06-02 08:29pm

Ace Pace wrote: there are other inconsistencies between the Christian Old testament and the Jewish Bible, not only in the 10 commandments.

1) It is not called the "Jewish Bible".

2) No shit there are differences. I and several others already said that.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2003-06-02 08:41pm

Wicked Pilot wrote: If you can't seem to find this obscure passage, then your concession is accepted.

Glad you accept. My apolagies for jumping the gun on that post. I was thinking about it a bit more after the first post and then remembered some stuff that forced me to alter it.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-06-02 09:20pm

Lonestar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: ... in which every man, woman, child and infant in the city had to die because they had all been judged together for the act of a few men who accosted God's servants? Sorry, but if you don't think that's murder, you're fucked in the head. And that is but one of the many examples I listed in that post. Try again.
IIRC, Abraham couldn't find 5 decent men in the entire city of Sodom (although nothing is said of Gomorrah, however, besides that it could 'sploded)

Define decent, say how no one Sodom was decent (not even the children) and how non decency is worth capital punishment?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-02 09:37pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote: If the world is 10,000 years old, then I was born YESTERDAY!

The earth's only 10k years old, since you apparently WERE born
yesterday, and have the comprehension of a mewling baby