Interdiction fields

[Enola Straight]

As I understand it, an Interdictor projects an artificial gravity field into space, interfereingwith the superluminal flight of a passing vessel, thus pulling said vessel out of hyperspace.

Is it possible that the interdictor's mass could be so small and the target vessel's mass so great that the interdictor is instead pulled into hyperspace?

[NecronLord]

Maybe if you tried interdicting a Death Star on a low power.

This belongs in PSW

[Dalton]

Dunno. Interdictors can simulate interstellar-level masses as I recall.

[Dalton]

Maybe if you tried interdicting a Death Star on a low power.

This belongs in PSW

Done.

[Crown]

Maybe if you tried interdicting a Death Star on a low power.

Man that would be so funny to see!

[CaptainChewbacca]

I don't think hyperspace works that way, because they'd need a motivator in the interdictor actively working to get them to enter hyperspace.

In Crystal Star ships were towed into hyperspace, but that was likely with tractor beams at close range. Probably if the gravity generator pulled back on the interdictor, the generators would get pulled off the ship.

[Connor MacLeod]

Err. The reason an Interdictor field works is because it simulates a stellar or planetary mass (or probably any kind of large stellar body), either entirely through the creation of a large gravitational field (whether it simulates stellar/planetary masses in other ways, I dont know enough to say for sure, though it is implied.) This "Artificial" mass gives off enough readings to fool the collision-avoidance sensors of the hyperdrive into thinking it is running into a real object. Hence, the hyperdrive cuts off.

Whatever prevents a hyperdrive from engaging a hyperdrive too close to a planet (they have to get a certain distance away, remember, at least for SAFE hyperspace passage.) also prevents hyperdrive activation inside an interdiction field (for the same reasons - its fooled in thinking its close to a planetary mass.)

There is no real "interaction" between the object in hyperspace and the interdiction field (Beyond sensor detection of it, and that objects in realspace cast "mass shadows" into hyperspace.) Remember that Hyperspace is distinctly FTL, while gravity is massless (and thus travels at c) - I don't think any real interaction between the two is possiible.

[Enola Straight]

(Thanks for putting this in the correct forum.)

So...theoretically, one can simply disable the hyperdrive cutout failsafes and pass through unhindered?

[Ender]

Yes, Han did that to jump out from Byss while still in the atmosphere. And the Bakurans developed a way to bypass an interdiction field without disableing the safties

[Super-Gagme]

Theres an example of bad EU continuity, in one of the X-Wing books (either Iron Fist or Solo Command) the Imperial Interdictor uses its GravGens to push itself around extremely quickly. So not just a "trick".

[Robert Treder]

Theres an example of bad EU continuity, in one of the X-Wing books (either Iron Fist or Solo Command) the Imperial Interdictor uses its GravGens to push itself around extremely quickly. So not just a "trick".

It's not really a continuity error. The Interdictors don't just send out false signals; they actually create gravity fields. Don't ask me how.

[Super-Gagme]

Well I was replying to the fact that people were saying they just fake gravity (which I don't think they do)

[omegaLancer]

No one said that it fake, only that the field project the same Mass shadow as a planet. This tricks the Safeties of a ship in hyperspace into droping the ship out of hyperspace or prevent it from jumping into hyperspace.

[PainRack]

I don't think this scenario is possible.

For one,I don't believe that the Interdictor works by causing the hyperdrive to shut itself down.

Secondly,the Byss incident resulted n structural damage in the Falcon,thus,backing up Han claim in ANH.Here's a page I did once in SB.

This is seperated into 2 posts and 4 points.Its essentially an analgram of all my hyperspace work.Some of it had already been done by others{Hyperdrive and gravitational influences}.

1.Hyperdrive speed
From the "Incredible Worlds of Star Wars Episode 1",the approximate distance from Tatooine to Coruscant can be found.Its is 52,000 ly.Using an approximate travelling time of 20 hours,that yields 2,700 ly/hour.

Note,Darth Maul Journal short considerably shorten this estimate,considering the attacks of the sandpeople.

E1701 contests that Maul was not on Coruscant.This is not true.Research done to show Darth Sidious was Palpatine indicates otherwise.One of their methods was to actually compare background images of Darth Sidious meeting with Maul and Palpatine meeting with Amidala in which the same props/background shots were found.Considering that Amidala meeting was on Coruscant,thus,Maul meeting was on Coruscant.
http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/tfn.cgi?storyID=12715

2.Navcomp
Some people think that the navcomp functions by bringing up navigational data and the approiate jump routes,then modify it to suit the purposes and jump.Many have even gone to the extreme of the navcomp merely being the database of possible hyperspace jumps.

This is not the case.In TESB novelisation,Luke revealed that Dagobah was not on the navigational charts R2D2 had.
Assuming he didn't venture off to some cartographical mission to locate Dagobah{unlikely},what this probably meant was that no known jump routes to Dagobah exists in R2D2 charts.Thus,Luke navcomp in effect,created its own route to Dagobah.

An alternative lies in there being a hyperspace beacon at the Dagobah system to guide Luke in.However,as Dagobah is an uninhabitated planet,this is unlikely.

Its is possible that Luke found the planet through the Force,similar to how previous Jedi found planets teeming with Adegan crystals.
Nonetheless,a jump was executed to the Dagobah system,without the jump route being found in their charts.

3.Gravitational wells and hyperdrive
The presence of a gravitational well does not mean a jump is impossible.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We're still within the gravitational influence of Tatooine," came the cool response. "It will be a few minutes yet before the navigation computer can compensate and effect an accurate jump. I could override its decision, but the hyperdrive would likely shred itself. That would give me a nice hold full of scrap metal in addition to you four."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So,how does an interdictor cruiser work?


First,we need an explaination on mass shadows.There are several assumptions that we have to either discard or follow.

1.Mass shadows are created by gravity wells.
2.Mass shadows create gravity wells.
3.Mass shadows exist in the same region of space curved by a strong gravity well.

We're not going to debate the specific nature of a mass shadow,as in whether or not its an object intrusion into hyperspace etc.

Despite of the above 3 assumptions,we do know this.Travelling near or into a mass shadow is dangerous.Observed and described effects either involving the ship being permantly lost in hyperspace{torn to bits} or experiencing severe hull stress,damaging the ship{Dark Force Rising.Karrde accident}

Furthermore,we learn from the Dark Fleet Crisis series that improperly tuned ships may be destroyed by the exit forces of entering or exiting hyperspace{specific quotes may be found in CX http://www.theforce.net/swtc}

I thus theorise this.We know that some force acts on the ship when near or in a mass shadow,as the ship experiences stress or even deformation.We know that if a ship is not properly tuned,stray forces can kill its occupants.

If mass shadows,or gravity wells,{depending on which assumption you use} exerts forces on the ship{as we seen},then,the problem of jumping in a gravitational well is solved!

The presence of a gravity well or a mass shadow inserts additional forces acting on a ship entering,traveling in or exiting hyperspace.If the ship is unable to deal with this force,either in terms of it being unplanned for or the magnitude overriding its safety equipment,then the ship can and will be fatally damaged.

As such,the presence of a gravity well or known mass shadow introduces new factors into calculating a hyperspace jump.The navi-computer must now factor the forces acting on the ship in,to prevent the ship from being destroyed.

An interdictor cruiser will then work in this manner.It doesn't prohibit hyperspace travel by creating a gravity well,it prohibits hyperspace travel by simply fluctating the various conditions a nav computer must deal with.By rapidly changing the orientation and magnitude of its gravitational wells,a nav computer cannot factor and sense everything it requires for a jump!


However,to pull a ship out of hyperspace would not require such an apparatus.What will be required is an unexpected gravitational field,large and powerful enough to register on any sensors the ship have and trip the alarms,shutting the hyperdrive down.

Talon Karrde in Dark Fleet Rising illustrates an incident where the ship going into the uncalculated mass shadow of a comet further illustrates that it is the uncalculated gravitational influences which will cause damage to a ship in hyperspace.So,if they switch off the safeties,that ship is going to be nothing but scrap metal.

[Illuminatus Primus]

For one,I don't believe that the Interdictor works by causing the hyperdrive to shut itself down.

Eh? I thought the concensus is it tripped safety systems and drops a ship out of hyperspace before the hyperdrive is trashed/the ship is torn apart of blown off course due to aberrant grav fields.

Secondly,the Byss incident resulted n structural damage in the Falcon,thus,backing up Han claim in ANH.

The Falcon recieved no damage from jumping while still in Byss' atmosphere, as far as I can remember.

1.Hyperdrive speed
From the "Incredible Worlds of Star Wars Episode 1",the approximate distance from Tatooine to Coruscant can be found.Its is 52,000 ly.Using an approximate travelling time of 20 hours,that yields 2,700 ly/hour.

Note,Darth Maul Journal short considerably shorten this estimate,considering the attacks of the sandpeople.

E1701 contests that Maul was not on Coruscant.This is not true.Research done to show Darth Sidious was Palpatine indicates otherwise.One of their methods was to actually compare background images of Darth Sidious meeting with Maul and Palpatine meeting with Amidala in which the same props/background shots were found.Considering that Amidala meeting was on Coruscant,thus,Maul meeting was on Coruscant.
http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/tfn.cgi?storyID=12715

Reasonable.

2.Navcomp
Some people think that the navcomp functions by bringing up navigational data and the approiate jump routes,then modify it to suit the purposes and jump.Many have even gone to the extreme of the navcomp merely being the database of possible hyperspace jumps.

This is not the case.In TESB novelisation,Luke revealed that Dagobah was not on the navigational charts R2D2 had.
Assuming he didn't venture off to some cartographical mission to locate Dagobah{unlikely},what this probably meant was that no known jump routes to Dagobah exists in R2D2 charts.Thus,Luke navcomp in effect,created its own route to Dagobah.

Ungrounded Assumption. There are many space stations, rebel hideouts, whatever. X-Wings do not have navicomputers, hence the astromech droids. He likely flew to some waystation or something, and downloaded the coordinates from a large navigational database. Where else do astromech route saves come from, and it is supported by the fact that warp beacons contained navigational information for thousands of years, and this interpretation involves the fewest contradictions.

An alternative lies in there being a hyperspace beacon at the Dagobah system to guide Luke in.However,as Dagobah is an uninhabitated planet,this is unlikely.

Unneccesary. He could flown to the Sector containing Degobah and found a platform that had local jump data and gotten the precise location.

Its is possible that Luke found the planet through the Force,similar to how previous Jedi found planets teeming with Adegan crystals. Nonetheless,a jump was executed to the Dagobah system,without the jump route being found in their charts.

Possibly. Jedi have been known to possess inherent hypernavigation abilities.

3.Gravitational wells and hyperdrive
The presence of a gravitational well does not mean a jump is impossible.

We're still within the gravitational influence of Tatooine," came the cool response. "It will be a few minutes yet before the navigation computer can compensate and effect an accurate jump. I could override its decision, but the hyperdrive would likely shred itself. That would give me a nice hold full of scrap metal in addition to you four."

Doesn't contradict "safeties" interpretation. Jumps in grav wells can be dangerous (perhaps the jump vector's relation to the gravitational vector from Tattooine would create stresses? is it more than just grav influence?) but are possible. Hyperdrives utilize safety protocol which drop a ship out of hyperspace or prevent jumps when there is a possibility of ship/hyperdrive destruction due to gravity fields.

1.Mass shadows are created by gravity wells.
2.Mass shadows create gravity wells.
3.Mass shadows exist in the same region of space curved by a strong gravity well.

We're not going to debate the specific nature of a mass shadow,as in whether or not its an object intrusion into hyperspace etc.

Despite of the above 3 assumptions,we do know this.Travelling near or into a mass shadow is dangerous.Observed and described effects either involving the ship being permantly lost in hyperspace{torn to bits} or experiencing severe hull stress,damaging the ship{Dark Force Rising.Karrde accident}

Furthermore,we learn from the Dark Fleet Crisis series that improperly tuned ships may be destroyed by the exit forces of entering or exiting hyperspace{specific quotes may be found in CX http://www.theforce.net/swtc}

I thus theorise this.We know that some force acts on the ship when near or in a mass shadow,as the ship experiences stress or even deformation.We know that if a ship is not properly tuned,stray forces can kill its occupants.

If mass shadows,or gravity wells,{depending on which assumption you use} exerts forces on the ship{as we seen},then,the problem of jumping in a gravitational well is solved!

The presence of a gravity well or a mass shadow inserts additional forces acting on a ship entering,traveling in or exiting hyperspace.If the ship is unable to deal with this force,either in terms of it being unplanned for or the magnitude overriding its safety equipment,then the ship can and will be fatally damaged.

As such,the presence of a gravity well or known mass shadow introduces new factors into calculating a hyperspace jump.The navi-computer must now factor the forces acting on the ship in,to prevent the ship from being destroyed.

All seems consistent.

An interdictor cruiser will then work in this manner.It doesn't prohibit hyperspace travel by creating a gravity well,it prohibits hyperspace travel by simply fluctating the various conditions a nav computer must deal with.By rapidly changing the orientation and magnitude of its gravitational wells,a nav computer cannot factor and sense everything it requires for a jump!

Good reasoning. The safeties detect strange gravitational influences, and drop a ship out of hyperspace. Killing the safeties and trying to jump anyway is dangerous: the fluctuating gravitational forces could exert enormous tidal effects on spacecraft in hyperspace.

It also solves the need for a Interdictor to literally generate stellar-scale masses. It needs to only project a gravity field such that it would damage or exert tidal forces on a ship in hyperspace. Fields fluctuating such that a nav-comp and the inertial compensators couldn't fix.

However,to pull a ship out of hyperspace would not require such an apparatus.What will be required is an unexpected gravitational field,large and powerful enough to register on any sensors the ship have and trip the alarms,shutting the hyperdrive down.

Fits with safeties. You could disable them and jump again--but you'd probably paste yourself into a bulkhead at .9 C.

Talon Karrde in Dark Fleet Rising illustrates an incident where the ship going into the uncalculated mass shadow of a comet further illustrates that it is the uncalculated gravitational influences which will cause damage to a ship in hyperspace.So,if they switch off the safeties,that ship is going to be nothing but scrap metal.

Seems good. I like.

[PainRack]

I should have stated that I do not believe that Interdictor Fields work through "tricking" the hyperdrive into shutting down,but it is neccesary for the ship to shut down its hyperdrive or it will turn itself into scrap metal.The entire essay was a combination of work done to refute claims on ships can't jump in gravity well due to Interdictor example,a X-wing can only travel on hyperspace routes and the claims of 270ly/h max speed.


I was under the impression that the Falcon put in for repairs after the jump at byss.However,we both agree that a ship can jump within a gravity well.


Luke journey to Dagobah is unexplained.A x-wing fighter on the run,with the Empire and Darth Vader searching for him should not be advertising his presence with the inquiry of naivgation data from local insitutions.

The bit about gravitational influences is more in line with a ship can't jump within an Interdiction Field rather than a ship in hyperspace journey.I found it in relevance to the topic because I don't believe that it is the extreme magnitude of the Interdictor gravity well and safety that cause a ship to have to exit hyperspace but rather,it is either a matter of the ship exiting from hyperspace or being turned into scrap metal.

[Enforcer Talen]

I remember asking a while back - does the death star bring things out of hyperspace as it travels?

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, it's kind of interesting. The Interdictors appear to be able to direct their gravity in a given angle, or set of angles (ref. HttE, DFR), but they also appear to actually generate mass. I'm not sure how this works, other than it works very well.

Hyperdrives can suffer serious damage if they jump too close to a large mass, so most hyperdrives have safeties installed to prevent such problems. I assume that the mass shuts off the hyperdrive, so as to prevent the ship from seriously damaging or even destroying itself. You can call that a "trick," if you want, but since there's a real threat of damage here I don't think that qualifies.

[PainRack]

Actually, it's kind of interesting. The Interdictors appear to be able to direct their gravity in a given angle, or set of angles (ref. HttE, DFR), but they also appear to actually generate mass. I'm not sure how this works, other than it works very well.

Hyperdrives can suffer serious damage if they jump too close to a large mass, so most hyperdrives have safeties installed to prevent such problems. I assume that the mass shuts off the hyperdrive, so as to prevent the ship from seriously damaging or even destroying itself. You can call that a "trick," if you want, but since there's a real threat of damage here I don't think that qualifies.

What do you mean by generate mass?Or are you referring to a mass shadow?

As for the orientation of gravity well,considering the precision of gravity control as displayed by the Falcon gun wells,the disco at Han at Star End in which he was able to open a lane of "normal" gravity whereas all around was a couple of Gs means that it will be more puzzling if an Interdictor doesn't possess the same kind of abilities.

[YT300000]

Luke journey to Dagobah is unexplained.A x-wing fighter on the run,with the Empire and Darth Vader searching for him should not be advertising his presence with the inquiry of naivgation data from local insitutions.

Jedi have a Force ability called astrogation something. It allows them to figure out the hyper coordinates for planets with strong Force presences, like Dagobah.

[vakundok]

However,we both agree that a ship can jump within a gravity well.

Excuse me, but it directly contradicts with the novelization of ANH. It mentions (as the basic of space travel) (just before the start of the MF from Tatooin) that FTL travel can only happen, if the ship is out of the attraction of the gravitic field.

[PainRack]

However,we both agree that a ship can jump within a gravity well.

Excuse me, but it directly contradicts with the novelization of ANH. It mentions (as the basic of space travel) (just before the start of the MF from Tatooin) that FTL travel can only happen, if the ship is out of the attraction of the gravitic field.

God,don't start acting like a trekkie.I spent weeks and multiple posts,including the one above to establish the false misinterepration Trekkies have of that quote and I hate having to refight the same ground over and over again.

We're still within the gravitational influence of Tatooine," came the cool response. "It will be a few minutes yet before the navigation computer can compensate and effect an accurate jump. I could override its decision, but the hyperdrive would likely shred itself. That would give me a nice hold full of scrap metal in addition to you four."

Read that quote from ANH novelisation.Now tell me where it states they need to get out of a gravity well in order to jump.

[vakundok]

However,we both agree that a ship can jump within a gravity well.

Excuse me, but it directly contradicts with the novelization of ANH. It mentions (as the basic of space travel) (just before the start of the MF from Tatooin) that FTL travel can only happen, if the ship is out of the attraction of the gravitic field.

God,don't start acting like a trekkie.I spent weeks and multiple posts,including the one above to establish the false misinterepration Trekkies have of that quote and I hate having to refight the same ground over and over again.

We're still within the gravitational influence of Tatooine," came the cool response. "It will be a few minutes yet before the navigation computer can compensate and effect an accurate jump. I could override its decision, but the hyperdrive would likely shred itself. That would give me a nice hold full of scrap metal in addition to you four."

Read that quote from ANH novelisation.Now tell me where it states they need to get out of a gravity well in order to jump.

"(just before the start of the MF from Tatooin)" (EDIT: more correctly, when Luke entered dock 94) The conversation you quoted happened later. Would you be so kind to supply a link to your posts?

[PainRack]

That conversation is the same conversation.The only difference is that the movie excludes the sentence
"can compensate "
and parts of
"I could override its decision, but the hyperdrive would likely shred itself. That would give me a nice hold full of scrap metal in addition to you four."

[vakundok]

What I referred was not a conversation.

Dircetly after the spy reported, the novelization described dock 94 from Luke's point of view and also described the basics of space travel.
Please check it, because I have only the hungarian translation, so I canot quote it.