What form of martial arts do you recommend?

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-09-11 07:25pm

yeah, the teacher is probably one of the main points. i used to box with a pretty good instructor, one who also cares for the newbies which means that advanced members dont completly beat them up. then i moved to another town because my college was there and there was only one crapy little box club with a shitty instructor who didnt care if skinny little noobies were kicked to hell by huge experienced streetfighter types of people. and guess what happened *g*.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-09-12 12:14am

aerius wrote:
weemadando wrote: For the BEST training in fighting find your local free-from fight club. Everyone there will bring in different skills and techniques and you will learn a lot more a lot quicker. And unlike a lot of martial arts, this stuff will actually be functional.
True, but this is not something that you can do from scratch. The purpose of these club gatherings is so that martial artists who already have a decent and solid background can learn skill from each other, as well as ways to use and defend against various styles. Before doing this you need a solid background and knowledge of range, footwork, timing, and balance, as well as the basic to intermediate skills in your chosen art. Without the background it'll be hard to impossible to understand how and why things work, and things'll just resemble a free for all bar fight. There's no question that for those with a solid background these club type things will allow you to learn at an incredible pace.

As for martial arts I'm now studying Kali and Escrima, which are arts that involve striking, trapping, and stick and knife work. After having sticks (picture extra large drum sticks in each hand) coming at you from all directions, everything else seems to move in slow motion. Also important is the choice of Dojos if self defense is a priority. Many of the larger commercial places are next to useless in teaching stuff that's useful for self defense, they're geared more towards the fitness and sport side rather than brutal street reality.

Actually, I'll just refer you to this link here for further reading, it's really good stuff. http://www.drearic.com/streetreality.html

I've got a good friend who has competed at Tae Kwon Do world championships and is knowledgable in most asian martial arts. He was the one that formed this club to train us all.

One guy brought in boxing, one kung-fu (rather amusing), a couple of guys had karate, judo and tae kwon do. I brought in a knowledge of aikido, dirty tricks, free-style wrestling and hard-won knowledge of how a real brawl actually works.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-09-12 12:39am

XaLEv wrote:I recommend Ninjutsu. After studying it for a while, you must go to SB and tell Es Arkajae about it so that he can, in his infinite wisdom, declare you full of shit.

Is your Dojo recognised by Massaki Hatsumi Sensei? I mean is it Bujinkan ninjutsu, or another disipline? And why would Es Arkajae declare you full of shit? Or is it me?

Post by **Edi** » 2002-09-12 01:39am

Judo is good, though very defense orientated. I've practiced that as well as ju-jutsu, which is a very effective style. Find one of those styles of ju-jutsu that focus more on practical defense instead of kata (the ritualized form), such as Hokutoryu Ju-Jutsu (I don't know if this style is known over there, but there will probably be something similar). Ju-jutsu has punches, kicks, throws, locks and what have you as well as defensive routines for taking out attackers armed with knives, clubs and other such instruments.

Anyway, choose any martial art and get good in it and you should be all right. Of course, there is always the one defense that I prefer to use (if available): Run away. That's the first thing they teach you (after teaching you how to fall without hurting yourself): Always run away if you can. Of course, sometimes it unfortunately is not an option.

Edi

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-09-12 04:53am

The best fight is won by 100m and still accelerating.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-12 05:00am

Glock Fu is really a martial art, as well
as is any of the gun-fu family, and indeed is kickinballsfu. Military arts, see?

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-09-12 05:07am

Judo is good, though very defense orientated. I've practiced that as well as ju-jutsu, which is a very effective style. Find one of those styles of ju-jutsu that focus more on practical defense instead of kata (the ritualized form), such as Hokutoryu Ju-Jutsu (I don't know if this style is known over there, but there will probably be something similar). Ju-jutsu has punches, kicks, throws, locks and what have you as well as defensive routines for taking out attackers armed with knives, clubs and other such instruments.

Anyway, choose any martial art and get good in it and you should be all right. Of course, there is always the one defense that I prefer to use (if available): Run away. That's the first thing they teach you (after teaching you how to fall without hurting yourself): Always run away if you can. Of course, sometimes it unfortunately is not an option.

judo is crap as a self defence thing. the only time a judoka might win is if he fights against another judoka who doesnt use punches either. as soon as you´re allowed to use punches judo is worthless.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-12 06:50am

Crown wrote:
XaLEv wrote:I recommend Ninjutsu. After studying it for a while, you must go to SB and tell Es Arkajae about it so that he can, in his infinite wisdom, declare you full of shit.
Is your Dojo recognised by Massaki Hatsumi Sensei? I mean is it Bujinkan ninjutsu, or another disipline? And why would Es Arkajae declare you full of shit? Or is it me?

The closest I've come to studying Ninjutsu is reading some of Ashida Kim's books. However, there are a couple of people over at SB who have: Illuminatus99, studied for a couple years; and Dainichi Nyorai, Fuma-ryu for the last 20 years. Dainichi started a thread about ninja and Es came in and declared both of them full of shit because of their claims of having studied Ninjutsu. It can be found here.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2002-09-12 08:24am

salm wrote: judo is crap as a self defence thing. the only time a judoka might win is if he fights against another judoka who doesnt use punches either. as soon as you´re allowed to use punches judo is worthless.

Assuming that you're talking about sport Judo which has all the destructive joint locks, chokes, and striking (there's striking in Judu?) removed, then yes, you'd have a point. Unfortunately "sport" Judo is the only Judo that most people are aware of, and it's what's taught in almost all Judo places. Using all the tools available in the "full" art of Judo, you'd have something resembling what Steven Seagal does in his movies, which is a combination of strikes, trapping, throws, chokes, and joint destruction. In short, it works.

MGraham · Post by **MGraham** » 2002-09-12 12:39pm

I really enjoyed Tae Kwan Do and studied it for years.

The concept of hard blocks then attack always appealed to me because it seemed to make sense for self defense: you only attack after you block.

I don't know if every school teaches it that way but mine did.

I was one testing away from my black belt when I quit because of an argument I got into with my instructor over his 17yr old son being able to date my 18 year old friend. It was pretty stupid stuff and I know I was right, but I still wish I hadn't given it up, at least not until I got my black belt.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-09-12 05:18pm

By Salm:

judo is crap as a self defence thing. the only time a judoka might win is if he fights against another judoka who doesnt use punches either. as soon as you´re allowed to use punches judo is worthless.

All martial arts have certain truths. There is nothing crappy or worthless about Judo. Throws, take downs, clinching, breakfalls and joint locks can be very useful in a street fight. Salm, you'll find that after studying, there are only superior martial artists.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-09-12 08:02pm

All martial arts have certain truths. There is nothing crappy or worthless about Judo. Throws, take downs, clinching, breakfalls and joint locks can be very useful in a street fight. Salm, you'll find that after studying, there are only superior martial artists.

no, i dont believe so. judo is surely not worthless as a sport but in a streetfight or for self defence judo (the judo that i know throws, no punches...) is, if not worthles very inferior to anything involving punching. tai boxing, boxing, karate....

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-09-12 09:41pm

By Salm:

no, i dont believe so. judo is surely not worthless as a sport but in a streetfight or for self defence judo (the judo that i know throws, no punches...) is, if not worthles very inferior to anything involving punching. tai boxing, boxing, karate....

Then go to a judo club and make a challenge to fight anyone in the back parking lot after class. A good judoka would block your punch and throw you violently to the ground, break your leg or smash your head of the concrete. You confusion lies in the belief that the art form is what is superior. It is the martial artist that is superior.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2002-09-12 10:58pm

salm wrote: no, i dont believe so. judo is surely not worthless as a sport but in a streetfight or for self defence judo (the judo that i know throws, no punches...) is, if not worthles very inferior to anything involving punching. tai boxing, boxing, karate....

Vastly inferior to anything that involves punching, that is fucking laughable. Where exactly do you get the idea that punching is the be all end all technique in a fight? What happens when someone say, a drunk at a bar headlocks you from behind and starts pounding you? What are you going to do with your punches now? See my point? With Judo you can throw the perp and then do as you please with him. Understand this, street reality has no resemblance to sport competition. You don't square off and choose range before a fight, and you don't have silly rules that say what you can and can't do. There's nothing stopping me from jamming and trapping that punch of yours and snapping your elbow like a twig.

I can also say this, "once you're on the groud any art that's dependant on punching and striking will be inferior". Once you get grounded Judo and Ju-Jutsu have a heavy advantage over any of the arts that are based on striking. Obviously you should never go to ground in a fight if you can avoid it, but that's another topic. Every martial art has it's strengths and weaknesses. As Next of Kin said, "it is the martial artist that is superior". By this it is the person that can best understand and use the skills of any given art who will "win".

Sienthal · Post by **Sienthal** » 2002-09-13 12:25am

XaLEv wrote:I recommend Ninjutsu. After studying it for a while, you must go to SB and tell Es Arkajae about it so that he can, in his infinite wisdom, declare you full of shit.

Most excellent idea!

Well, the fitness part of my martial arts routine won't be as needed. I'm taking conditioning in school. Fun, but a bitch at the same time. I have no doubts in my mind that I'll be able to get in shape with it. I've also been free from hunger for nearly the entire day, which I'm not sure is good for my health

. That said, if Ninjutsu is actually a viable option, I'd jump on it in a second, but on a more practical plane of existence, I think Karate or maybe Akido would do well.

One problem I have is finding a good teacher. I'm not exactly a rich bastard, being in high school and all, and I quite literally know next-to-nothing about the local places. You guys have any advice for how to tell a good teacher from the craptastic?

Damaramu · Post by **Damaramu** » 2002-09-13 04:05pm

Avoid the ones that call themselves masters.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2002-09-13 04:56pm

Sienthal wrote: One problem I have is finding a good teacher. I'm not exactly a rich bastard, being in high school and all, and I quite literally know next-to-nothing about the local places. You guys have any advice for how to tell a good teacher from the craptastic?

Seeing that your priorities were self defense, fitness, and learning spiffy moves, in that order, look for a place that does a good deal of sparring so you can practice with and against other students. Look for smaller class sizes or places where they have advanced students to help out. As a general rule stay away from large "McDojos" where all they do is punch air all day.

Many Dojos will offer a trial class, or allow you to sit in and observe how things work there, take advantage of this. Since defense is a priority for you, here's a few things you'd want to look for. See that they use focus mitts, pads, or heavy bags that you can hit to practice your striking techniques. If it's a "soft" style such as Aikido or Judo, see that there's lots of one on one practice. In all arts, make sure there's a good amount of sparring (fighting against each other), also look for the use of protective equipment which will allow you to strike full power without killing your sparring partner.

As for your teacher, he or she must have a full understanding of the art, and be able to get that knowledge across well. Ask lots of questions before getting into it, stuff like what they teach and do and what you can expect to get out of their classes. If your bullshitometer keeps going off then go elsewhere.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-09-13 06:49pm

Sienthal, I would recommend that not only should you visit a club and watch but you should participate as well! I found my Aikido club to be very friendly. Many of the senior belts enjoyed teaching a newbie such as myself the ropes. Look for this quality in a dojo. Are the senior students willing to work with you or not. I can't begin to tell you about the places I've trained at where seniors or instructors don't even give you the time of day because you're just a lowly white belt.

Look beyond the instructor who is just a drill sarge and orders you to repeat the motions to his count. Find someone who is willing to break down the steps into the basic motions and explain each part of the way. My sensei, bless his heart, has such a wealth of aikido knowledge and loves to share. We go to class and the learning doesn't stop there. Afterwards, we'll go for a beer and talk about aikido and such. Thus, don't just look for a place to train but look for a club where you can make new friends and enjoy a pint afterwards!

Good luck finding your club!