Raising Kids Atheist, Questions About Death

[Spanky The Dolphin]

First off, I'd like to let everybody know that this is a fairly serious question, so I'd appreciate it if the "let's automatically rag on Christians" type of comments could stay out of it.

Now on to the main topic...

I'd like to think that in the fairly new future, I'll be married with a few kids. If the Dice of Fate rolled in the right directions, I'd like to think that my wife and I would be able to raise them as atheists.

I don't think that that would be too difficult to do, but there might be a few difficulties regarding how they should interact with others regarding the subject of their religion (basically that religion isn't a big deal and to avoid discussing the subject with others, etc...).

However I have foreseen that there might be a possible problem in discussing the subject of death with them, particularly when they are very young and first exposed to it. Now we all know that the usually traditional "religious" versions usually worked pretty well, since we could usually cope the harsh realities of it while in the transitory stages from theists to atheists. But I'm not entirely sure of what the best way to explain death to very young children without any sort of religious connections.

So, basically: Is it a good idea to raise one's children as atheists from the start (or maybe a better way of asking that is "how well does it work"? And: How would you go about explaining death to young children in such a raising environment?

[Joe]

I would raise them to be apathetic, i.e. no mention of religion or atheism at all. Let them decide by themselves, when they've aged.

As for the death question, you could always say "Our bodies return to the Earth when we die." I know, it sounds a little too close to some of those bullshit Gaia religions, but it actually is true.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I can only speak from my own experience, but if you never take them to church, never teach the about God, they will most likely develop into athiests themselves.

[Thirdfain]

I was born in a Godless household. I never went to church, and I never became religeous. It helps that my folks encouraged me to read, and find out about the world for myself.

Teach your kids to think for themselves, and teach them about basic science when they are young. If they are not exposed to the brainwashing, they won;t be brainwashed- kids are naturally atheist.

[Alyeska]

I'd like to think that in the fairly new future, I'll be married with a few kids. If the Dice of Fate rolled in the right directions, I'd like to think that my wife and I would be able to raise them as atheists.

That is your mistake right there. You should make raising them as Atheists as your main goal. You should make critical thinking and knowledge of science as the primary goal. Wouldn't you prefer that they choose Atheism out of knowledge rather then because Mommy & Daddy were Atheists to?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I wasn't aware at the time I wrote it that it could be interpreted as being something that malicious, Alyeska. I apologise for that, as it wasn't what I meant.

[Saurencaerthai]

This is fairly interesting question, and a tough one at that.

Well, I wouldn't be overtly technical with the child, but I would try to explain the general life cycle and how it plays in with nature. I don't think many young children will cope well with the concept of "just not waking up" one day, so don't just give a dictionary definition. Rather, do try to show that while it is something that everyone has to meditate on at times in their life, it's not bad in some respects. Dialogue with the child on the subject is one of the best ways to accomplish this. It will allow you to present some of the basic ideas and then let them ask questions about it.

Also, if you want some more possible ways to present it, I'd recommend reading some books made for children on the topic and see how they present it.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I remember a very good book for children about death centering around a leaf, but I don't remember if it had any religious context or not. I guess I'll have to look around and dig it out one of these days to find out...

[zombie84]

I dont think its a difficult question at all.

Just tell them. Tell them the truth.

Tell them that when we die, our consciousness goes away forever, like sleeping forever, and that as far as we know, life ends at that point. Tell them that there are some groups of people who believe in ancient fairy tales where old men in the sky await their souls when they die. Tell them that this is all bogus and that these people are seeking easy answers to harsh questions.

Teach them to reason, to think for themselves, and to always be critical. If you can ignore any religious teachings while rasing them as moral, rational people, they will come to the conclusiion of atheism without you.

As for explaining the concept of death--i think the whole 'big-sleep' analogy is probably the easiest for children to understand. Dying is just like going to sleep, but just never waking up. Its nothing to fear because everybody and everything eventually dies, but this doesnt mean we should live in constant fear of death.

[lgot]

well, teach them about everything you can. Teach about being fair and to be critic, to not be bigoted and not believe in just about anything. Then they may turn or not in atheist, they may or not have such conflict. After all, they may not even care about something about this.

[Durandal]

If you teach your children critical thinking skills from an early age and keep them away from religious indoctrination, like Sunday School and the like, they will probably just develop into atheists on their own. You might also send them to a Catholic high school to expose them to a mainstream religion to see if they have a fancy for religious beliefs and let them choose on their own.

[Darth Wong]

Take a hint from Rebecca's deconversion. I never tried to convince her that Christianity was wrong. I never tried to argue with her about the Bible. I never attacked the concept of religion or Christianity in her presence.

I just tried to remind her about the rules of critical thought (I found that news articles and magazine editorials were excellent fodder for discussing logic fallacies ) and I encouraged her to research the background of how the Bible was written. She eventually became a non-Christian.

[kojikun]

Spanky: When they ask, say its like sleeping and dont discuss it in any more detail then that. As far as modern science tells us, that /is/ what its like -- unconsciousness.

Mike: Whatd she do, read a few lines then go "WTF.. holy shit these guys were on crack"?

[Macross]

Tell them that death is like what we experianced before we were born.

There is no point in worrying or arguing about death, we will all find out first hand eventually.

[InnerBrat]

I was raised athiest, and I turned out fine

My parents basically siad it was a dreamless sleep you don't wake up from. However, they also encouraged me to be widely read, and I picked up all sorts of crap from books and from the religious nuts at school, (that's the problem with having an open mind), but I made up my own mind as I wetn through adolescence.

[Tosho]

This is how I'd explain death to children:

"Sooner or later everyone dies. Some people die peacefully, some die painfully. As for what happens when we die there's lot's of different opinions, some people beleive that some go to a nice place called Heaven and some go to a bad place called Hell, some beleive that your reborn, there are lots of diferent beliefs. I'm not going to tell you what to beleive, I encourage you find your own answers, personly I beleive that when we die it's like going to sleep with out dreaming and without waking up."

[Zoink]

Tell them that death is a natural part of life, that every living thing dies, that "fear" is a natural response to death, and that as they get older experience will help them figure many of their concerns and questions.

----------

On the topic, I forget where I got this from but:

Let's say that right now you had to choose between:

(a) A horribly painful/agonizing death, dragged over a long period of time.

(b) A quick painless death.


If you picked 'b', then you fear the act of dying more than death itself. This is how I see it, I don't fear the state of death; once dead, I can't exactly worry about it. I fear being in the state where I know I'm going to die soon, and the pain that might accompany it.

[haas mark]

I have but one question ~ Would it not be more viable to raise them as atheist, but let them know that whatever they choose, you will love them? I mean, that would be raising themagnostic, yes? Gah., sllep dep = evil.. But really. If they're influenced by others, it IS their choice to make in the end, is it not?

~ver

[Zoink]

it IS their choice to make in the end, is it not?

It's their choice, but you can still tell them that Christianity is wrong and irrational for reasons X,Y, and Z. You don't have to tell them that Christianity is a perfectly good alternative to atheism. That (as you said) would be agnostic.

I suppose that if they chose to follow a god (or invisible elves, whatever) then that's their prerogative. As a parent I would still love them, but would still have the duty of giving them advice (it’s a too way street, the kids have to understand what the job of a parent is).

[InnerBrat]

I have but one question ~ Would it not be more viable to raise them as atheist, but let them know that whatever they choose, you will love them? I mean, that would be raising themagnostic, yes? Gah., sllep dep = evil.. But really. If they're influenced by others, it IS their choice to make in the end, is it not?

~ver

You forget that they will enocunter many other adults, who, like it or not, will have a strong affect on them (teachers, friends' parent etc), and those who are Crhistian will force Christianity down their throat, usually without knowing that they're going against your religion (because, lets face it, most Christians assume everyone else is one). So if you tell your kids that it doesn't matter what they believe, while someone else is telling them The Absolute Truth (TM), they're going to believe that other person, because kids like absolutes.

Better to tell kids "This is the Truth" and tell the adolescent "I'll love you no matter what you believe (but I'll be disappointed if you become a fundamentalist moron)"

[Saurencaerthai]

Tosho and Zoink, I think both your answers are probably the best methods posted here for discussing death with children, main reason being that they both come across as sensitive to the nature of a child's emotions. The main issue I have had with some of the other methods here is that they basically come out and dump the facts on the child with nothing to cushion the blow, which I don't think is a constructive way to deal with a young child.

[Robert Treder]

Speaking as someone who knows what it's like to have grown up without religion, do yourself a favor and tell your kids the truth. Kids aren't as dumb as one might think...they're not going to get fucked up by the concept of death or anything.
If I asked my parents something, they'd tell me the truth. Always be honest with your children, no matter what; one of the most annoying things is to think back and realize that as a child you misinterpreted something. For example, how many of us have had a "funny uncle" that we now realize was just drunk all the time?

As your children learn about religion (because raising a child as an atheist doesn't mean they don't know what religion is, of course), encourage them to use the critical thinking skills that you've given them. For example, this is, I shit you not, what I asked my father about the Christian God when I was three years old: "Where is God's penis?" When I found out that there was no answer to that, my three-year old mind had it figured out: religion is nonsense.

[Tosho]

"Where is God's penis?"

You must of had interesting imagination as a kid.

[haas mark]

I have but one question ~ Would it not be more viable to raise them as atheist, but let them know that whatever they choose, you will love them? I mean, that would be raising themagnostic, yes? Gah., sllep dep = evil.. But really. If they're influenced by others, it IS their choice to make in the end, is it not?

~ver

You forget that they will enocunter many other adults, who, like it or not, will have a strong affect on them (teachers, friends' parent etc), and those who are Crhistian will force Christianity down their throat, usually without knowing that they're going against your religion (because, lets face it, most Christians assume everyone else is one). So if you tell your kids that it doesn't matter what they believe, while someone else is telling them The Absolute Truth (TM), they're going to believe that other person, because kids like absolutes.

Better to tell kids "This is the Truth" and tell the adolescent "I'll love you no matter what you believe (but I'll be disappointed if you become a fundamentalist moron)"

First, note the incredibly bad typing as per my sleep dep.

Second, I see where you're coming from.. I just wanted some clarification.

~ver

[Sir Sirius]

I wonder why telling your kids that if they live as "good christians" they will go to heaven and that if they don't they will suffer eternal torment in hell is considered to be "easier" for the kids to accept then the simple truth, when you die you cease to exists. While neither is easy to accept, the truth doesn't result in endless guilt trips about being sinfull or generate nightmares of die and going to hell because you are jealous of you friends brand new X-Cube (10th commandment).

To make thigs more warped, christianity teaches children that most people go to hell and this is OK, because they are not christians. How's that for a lesson in religius intolerance for the kiddies?

What would I tell my children?
When you die, that is once your brain has ceased to fuction, you simply no longer exists. You will have now conciusness, no thoughts, no dreams, you will simply no longer exists. There is really nothing to be feared from this state of non-existance, you will not be in pain, you will not suffer, you will not be afraid, you will simply not be.
(If they bring souls, spririts or something like that up I'd tell them that they are all just fairy tales.)