The veil and the driver's liscense.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2003-06-06 10:44pm

This is the only message board I frequent in which I've not seen a thread on this.

So for those of you who haven't heard by now, in Florida a muslim woman refuses to take off her veil for her driver's liscense because it "violates" her religion. As such, there's a court battle over it.

Even though the case is already over and the judge ruled that she would have to remove her veil for a driver's liscense, I'm still curious as to what the rest of you think.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-06-06 10:51pm

She takes the veil off or gets no driver's license. Law enforcement officers don't need to be inconvenienced just to cater to some ancient, barbaric custom.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-06-06 10:52pm

I'm surprised that she would wear the veil hereself, though I sympathize with piety anyway.

In this case, my call is on the officer's side. If his or her job is made any more difficult because this women's identity remains unknown, I cannot in good conscience support the decision to take the picture with the veil.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-06-06 10:57pm

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-06-06 11:00pm

I made my vote,if she does`nt want to remove the vail then she better take the bus.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-06 11:13pm

Durran Korr wrote:She takes the veil off or gets no driver's license. Law enforcement officers don't need to be inconvenienced just to cater to some ancient, barbaric custom.

Agreed

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-06-06 11:18pm

-puts on burka, buys beer-

-falsetto- oh, yes, of course I am islamic woman. . .!

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-06-07 12:29am

She shouldn't have to remove the veil, but she shouldn't be allowed a drivers license until an alternative form of ID can be established for use in her (and I'm sure other) case(s).

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-06-07 12:38am

weemadando wrote:She shouldn't have to remove the veil, but she shouldn't be allowed a drivers license until an alternative form of ID can be established for use in her (and I'm sure other) case(s).

Well, she isn't being forced to remove her veil, she's just being made to choose between one or the other.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-07 12:48am

She should have to remove it to get the ID. Unless you're gonna have portable retinal scans, DNA scans, or a fingerprint test in every single police cruiser and/or other place to check an ID it's about the only way to prove who you are. After all, what's the purpose of a photo ID if half your face is hidden from view?

And driving is a priviledge, not a right.[/b]

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-06-07 12:49am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
weemadando wrote:She shouldn't have to remove the veil, but she shouldn't be allowed a drivers license until an alternative form of ID can be established for use in her (and I'm sure other) case(s).
Well, she isn't being forced to remove her veil, she's just being made to choose between one or the other.

Fine, then don't let her get a license, but I'm sure than an alternative method could be found of ID. But there is also the problem of whether or not it is safe to drive with a full veil.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-06-07 12:52am

Fine, then don't let her get a license, but I'm sure than an alternative method could be found of ID. But there is also the problem of whether or not it is safe to drive with a full veil.

I should think not. The veil will really screw up your peripheral vision.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-06-07 01:09am

weemadando wrote:I'm sure than an alternative method could be found of ID.

Start talking.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-06-07 02:03am

Wouldn't wearing a veil destroy the entire purpose of a photo ID?

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-06-07 12:55pm

Driving is a privilage, not a right. Freedom of religious practice can be overruled in a case of compelling public interest, having a photo id for driving purposes is a compelling public interest, or can be seen as one at least, thus in this case, she either selects to keep religion and not exercise her privilage of driving, or she uses her privilage while removing the viel for a few minutes.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-06-07 12:57pm

isn't illegal in many cities to cover your face in public? i remember certain laws passed to combat the KKK that stated that.

Rhadamanthus · Post by **Rhadamanthus** » 2003-06-07 01:37pm

Bah, the woman is an idiot and I agree with the judge.

Even the Islamic nations of the Middle East require women to unveil for their drivers license photo's, but she thinks she shouldn't have to in the US?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-07 01:51pm

Rhadamanthus wrote:Even the Islamic nations of the Middle East require women to unveil for their drivers license photo's, but she thinks she shouldn't have to in the US?

I thought women weren't allowed to have drivers' licenses in the Middle East.

BTW, Muslim women don't have to cover their face IIRC. They only have to cover their hair. (I live near a city with many Middle Eastern immigrants, and many of their women cover all their hair, but I've not seen a single of them wearing a veil!) Maybe some sub-sects of Islam require that, but not all.

Rhadamanthus · Post by **Rhadamanthus** » 2003-06-07 01:56pm

Saudi Arabia: Women aren't allowed to drive
Iran: Women wear a traditional chador, which does not cover the face.
Egypt: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
United Arab Emirates: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Oman: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Kuwait: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Qatar: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Bahrain: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Jordan: Women can drive if their faces are covered but do not cover their face in I.D. pictures

Tosho · Post by **Tosho** » 2003-06-07 01:57pm

Well let's see,

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

huh, it appears that the right to wear a veil while getting a driver's licensce dosen't exist.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-06-07 09:35pm

Another thing to talk about at school....
Heeeey it could be possible her husband is an abusive motherfucker though...
~Jason

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-08 10:28pm

If she wants the privilege of driving then she should remove the viel. A driver's license has certain requirements and if she doesn't want to meet them then to fucking bad. Every other licensed driver had to do the same so why should we make an exception for her?

Besides, the dumb bitch'd probably insist on wearing it driving. Now wouldn't that be fun!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-08 10:34pm

The sidetracking about political double standards has been split.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2003-06-09 01:49pm

Go to thesmokinggun.com ,and you will see this woman didn't have a problem with exposing her face to a MUG SHOT.
Oh yah, she didn't have a choice in the matter.
Strange, no claims about THAT photo "violating her rights."
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/sultaana1.html
Mugshots of your favourite celebrity felon!

Post by **Edi** » 2003-06-10 05:36am

There's also the little fact that if you go by even the strictest Islamic laws (as they are laid down in Islamic texts, instead of relying on some Taliban style twisting), there is nothing to back up a claim that women may not bare their face for ID checking.

For the photo on the license, it is permissible to bare the face in order to verify for the purposes of a business transaction that the woman is who she claims she is. So no problem with the photo. When a police officer stops them for whatever reason (speeding etc), it follows that the ID of the driver must be verified to see that it is indeed the prson who made the original business transaction (getting the license).

The idiot bitch doesn't have a case, either on the basis of American secular law or religious Islamic law. You can learn a lot of things by asking Islamic fundies (the literalistic kind, not jihadists) sometimes...

Edi

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The veil and the driver's liscense.

Should she have to remove her veil?

The veil and the driver's liscense.